Drawing back air?

[nightingale-56]

After having si for a year now (every other day) today when I have injected I have drawn back air for about 6 times. No air bubbles are going in, so could someone please tell me what is happening. Reluctant to do it again today. Would be grateful for some information if anyone can help please.

[fbirder]

Not sure when you are drawing up air?

[nightingale-56 in reply to fbirder]

Please see answer to Hidden below.

[fbirder in reply to nightingale-56]

Ah, I see.

There's no need to draw back to check to see if you're in a blood vessel unless you're dosing into the buttocks (and only trained professionals should do that). nursingtimes.net/clinical-a...

There are no major blood vessels in the other commonly used muscles. Next time you buy a piece of real ham (not the reformed stuff) look at it closely and you'll see no blood vessels. And ham is the pig equivalent of your muscles.

If you do get a bit of blood from the injection site it's because you have passed through one of the veins in the skin on the way down to the muscle. You can avoid this sort of bleeding by using the Z-track method (see Fig. 2 in the above link)

When you do draw back I would guess that you're not getting air into the syringe, but you're pulling back hard enough to form a vacuum. Like you'd get if you put your thumb over the end of the syringe and pull back.

[nightingale-56 in reply to fbirder]

Thank you for that link fbirder . It sounds as though your last sentence is relevant.

[Miss-guineapig in reply to fbirder]

Fbirder is right, don't draw back there is no need to draw back, sounds like you are doing ok x

[nightingale-56 in reply to Miss-guineapig]

Thanks Miss-guineapig . Maybe I am braver than I thought! Thanks for your input.

[nightingale-56 in reply to fbirder]

I just thought I would let you know that I was taught to give growth injections to my son by GOSH and gave them in the buttock for about 17 years. Also testosterone injections until he was given the gel. Only ever had very few mild bleeds.

[mountainice in reply to fbirder]

I saw a video from a doctor on a Facebook forum and he showed drawing back to check no blood coming back, but I don't do that, so I won't do it! I did have a big bleed last week though, first time ever - quite a bit of blood, so much it fell on the carpet before I could catch it. Must have hit something I suppose.

[Miss-guineapig in reply to mountainice]

We've all done that at one time or another mountainice, it wouldn't affect anything except a surface bruise on occasions...I am nurse and I am not worried x

[mountainice in reply to Miss-guineapig]

yes, I got a big bruise and it's still there, all purple and yellow

[nightingale-56 in reply to mountainice]

So sorry you had that bleed.

[mountainice in reply to fbirder]

Thank you for the link. Very good instructions. One thing though, I can't continue to stretch the skin while I inject as I use one hand to hold the syringe and one to depress the plunger as I can't do it one handed yet. I have never tried to be fair as I feel I want to hold on to the syringe for dear life - been doing it a year, still a bit nervous.

[fbirder in reply to mountainice]

Yes, that would be a problem. I hold the barrel of the syringe to stick it in, then move my hand to push down the plunger. The sight of the syringe, unsupported, sticking out of my leg is, apparently, 'gross'.

[mountainice in reply to fbirder]

yes, I am afraid it will wobble over or something, ha ha

[nightingale-56 in reply to mountainice]

Hi mountainice , I'd have a practice if I was you. I think I would find it more awkward to try and do it two handed. It is rather like holding an icing tube I find. Plenty of information on YouTube.

[mountainice in reply to nightingale-56]

Thanks, I am still not confident after every 10 days injecting for a year! Always dread it really, but I will try and graduate to one hand.

[Hidden]

Hi after you Inject by pushing down plunger of syringe you should just be pulling needle straight out so there wouldn’t be any air involved, is this what you mean? Are you not pulling straight out after Injecting the b12 maybe?

[nightingale-56 in reply to Hidden]

Hi Hidden , Yes this is exactly what I have been doing today. After inserting the needle , I pull back the syringe to see if there is any blood (prior to injecting B12 fluid), but I seem to be pulling back air, even though I have ensured the B12 is flowing at point of needle before insertion. This has happened once before, but it was about 6 times this morning and in both upper thighs (mid-section). Am I doing something wrong or has something happened under my skin? Help would be much appreciated.

[Hidden in reply to nightingale-56]

Hi again I don’t do that way ,I pull plunger in and out a few times before loading just to make sure it moves freely ,I load the b12 then push plunger down till a tiny drop comes out the top of needle then I know there’s no air and put the needle into the site push down plunger slowly to get the b12 in then straight out with needle I don’t do the blood check I don’t see that it’s necessary ,hopefully some of our more experienced members will confirm this for you.X

[nightingale-56 in reply to Hidden]

Hi Hidden this is exactly as I do it, but doing blood check when needle fully in. That is when I pull back, and if clear carry on and inject fluid. Perhaps I will dispense with the blood check.

[mountainice in reply to Hidden]

yes, I do that.

[scnuke in reply to nightingale-56]

I'm not sure what you might expect to see. Pulling the plunger back too far will certainly cause air to enter the needle, assuming you don't get blood. In fact, there is a split among the community as to whether it is even necessary to pull back the plunger before injecting. Even if you hit a vein, there is very little chance B12 would cause any problem, other than possibly feeling flushed. Cyano-B12 is administered IV to treat cyanide poisoning, so you are in little danger. Air is present in all of the virtual spaces in our body, so pulling the plunger back after needle insertion will give the appearance of air, unless you hit blood vessel. Just don't pull the plunger back very far. In short, nothing to worry about. Carry on.

[fbirder in reply to scnuke]

No, there is no air in any of the spaces in the body (at least there shouldn't be).

[scnuke in reply to fbirder]

Come on fbirder, you know better than that. I think your lungs and abdominal cavity would certainly disagree with you also. Anytime you insert a needle and you pull back on the plunger, unless it is in solid bone or steel, there will always a draw-back of something, even if it is only the volume of the needle barrel. I have performed tens of thousands of various types of injections.

[fbirder in reply to scnuke]

Your lungs have air in.

Your abdominal cavity does not. Your gut might contain gases, by they ain't air.

Here is an MRI of my abdomen. Where is the air? b12science.com/temp/30.jpg

quora.com/How-much-air-is-i...

thenakedscientists.com/arti...

[nightingale-56 in reply to scnuke]

scnuke thank you so much for all that information. Will now carry on, but leave it until tomorrow now.

[Nackapan]

After so long doing them do you think yoh are over thinking it?

I thought as long as tiny bubble of b12 come out of needle which then falls off yoh know no air in the syringe so you can insert the needle into site chosen.

I'm new to it but have watched the nurse

Hope you sort it out. Odd after all this time of doing it.

Is your regime working for you?

[nightingale-56 in reply to Nackapan]

Hi Nackapan I'm certain there is no air in needle only solution, which is what has puzzled me. My regime appears to be working as numbness in toes is much improved, and brain clearer again. Maybe I am overthinking it!

[Nackapan in reply to nightingale-56]

Glad you are improving its long haul isnt it. T C

[Emmers5]

I was taught by my nurse and I have never heard of this practice. I fill up with b12, tap to get the air to the top, push out a tiny drop to make sure no air is in the syringe, then inject and remove the needle without pulling back the plunger. The one issue I have had is pulling air instead of b12 when filling the syringe. Now I know to check that the needle is securely screwed to the syringe.

[nightingale-56 in reply to Emmers5]

Hi Emmers5 I always make sure there is no air in syringe or needle before I insert in chosen site, so sure it is not that problem.

[Emmers5 in reply to nightingale-56]

I meant that occasionally I will pull air when I'm trying to fill my syringe with b12 and that is because sometimes the needle is not tightly screwed onto the syringe. One time it sprayed my precious b12 all over my room! Now I remember to check it.

[nightingale-56 in reply to Emmers5]

I shall try it without pulling the syringe back today. Thank you for your information.

[Plucky1976]

Hi! After two and a half years of 3 injections every week, I have never checked for blood return. I usually get them in the arm or glute and so does my husband. As long as you make sure there is no air in the syringe itself before injecting.

[nightingale-56 in reply to Plucky1976]

Hi Plucky1976 , Blood return I could understand, but this was air (I think). Going to be braver today. Thank you for your input.

[Chaka]

Air is really only an issue if you were injecting into a vein, which you are not. You may accidentally prick a small vessel but that is not a problem. In my opinion injecting into the upper arm (deltoid muscle) is the best injection site.

[nightingale-56 in reply to Chaka]

Hi Chaka My leg is the most easiest part for me to try. Thank you for information.

[nightingale-56]

All done now! Thank you everyone for your kind advice and helping me to feel brave.

[thinkin]

Hi,

Make sure your needle is properly secured. If it's not on tight enough it will draw air in around it if you draw back. Some needle brands are better than others. I use BD, as do many hospitals. Sometimes it can be a false economy going for cheaper ones.

Make sure when you have your administration needle on that you have expelled the air from the needle. Point the needle upwards, flick to get rid of any air in they syringe to the top and push the air out. Do this very gently until you see a tiny droplet at the tip of the needle. Only takes a tiny smidge.

The air is either being sucked in through an ill fitting needle or was in the needle to start with.

Nurses no longer draw back when giving IM injections - it's been out dated practice for years, but it's still a habit with many. The B12 is suitable for SC (into the fat under the skin), IM (into the muscle) or IV (into the vein) so where ever it ends up it will work without harm.

I hope this helps.

[nightingale-56 in reply to thinkin]

Thanks for your reply thinkin .