Mucuna Pruriens

I ordered Organic Kapikachhu powder ( mucuna pruriens 100g) from Indigo Herbs of Glastonbury. After all my research I have determined that 1/4 tsp of this powder equals

1/2 sinement 100/25. I plan on taking it with 1/2 sinement 3x a day.

I have to wait until I titrate off azilect which is a MAOI and is not compatable with MP.

I am taking the powder because zandopa is NOT mucuna pruriens. It has the Ldopa from the powder, but the powder has other beneficial ingredients that zandopa does not. The other

ingredients are said to be neurorestorative. I plan only to take the 3 1/2 sinements with the MP powder and LDN. I will see how this goes and go from there.

I am excited because I read that the natural mucuna pruriens does not cause dyskenisia and /or disabling side effects. My ultimate goal is to get off synthetic Ldopa ( sinement) all together. I will keep you informed.

131 Replies

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  • Hi - I haven't heard off this before. For me, the prolem would be that Azilect - which I started 5 years ago changed my life - suddenly my drugs all started to work and this has continued to this day,

    I am MOST interested in how you manage to titrate off Azilect and how you get on with MP

    Bob (Froggatt55)

  • Hi froggatt55, I am titrating off azilect slowly. I take 1mg daily. I started by cuting the pill in quarters and taking 3/4 tab for 2 weeks. I am now taking 1/2 tab for 2 weeks. I will take 1/4 tab for 2 weeks and then wait 2 weeks before I take the MP powder.

    I will post when I start the MP powder......

    Bmakla

  • I'vee been taking it for a few weeks. My tremors have gotten decidedly worse. From what I understand about levo and cardo dopa, that would seem to make sense.

  • Do you mean you are taking the MP powder?

  • mucuna pruriens extract, each capsule yielding 100 mg L-dopa. perhaps without cardodopa to help, it serves only to make the tremors worse.

  • I´m very intrested to test this powder. I have had Parkinsons decise in 14 years, and have been handle it queit well, last 2 years - I can say it has started to get worse - I cant really say that - that is true becourse I have take less medicin now in about 1 year and in that way get worse - becourse Im aware about that it is a matter of time when I get any help from the medicine, so could you tell me how to get the powder, and we can do some emailing? I take much more medicine then you - I take 6 sinemet, 6 sifrol and to the night 1 sinemet depot.

    I took even more before - (7 sinemeth and 10 sifrol and 1 sinemet depot to night).

    Good luck.

    What I can say about me, is its really al in the head, when comeing incontact with my heart - everything can happends...

    with hope and gratitude

    Laila Eriksson - living in Sweden Stockholm and are 66 years old

  • Hi LailaE,

    I ordered the MP powder called " organic Kapikachhu powder" from indigo-herbs.co.uk on line. I will keep you informed......

    BMakla

  • what happened when you took this drug?

  • Hi Alexandria 12.....MP worked for me , but it became a hassle, especially when I was out of the house....taking the powder w/ me. Also I couldn't take azilect which I think is important......the last negative was I started having restless leg really bad which I attributed to the other ingredients in the MP such as serotonin,etc. So I decided to go back to taking my azilect and sinemet. I guess you have to decide if the benefits are in your favor.......By the way I was taking the MP with all the ingredients ......

  • Thanks. My Sinemet is working fine, but I am on Azilect as well. I'm not sure why he put me on the Azilect. It doesn't seem to do anything extra.

  • Hi Alexandria,

    My neuro told me, Azilect extends the benefit of Sinnemet.

    I take both but I had a bad side effects, lot of nausea...

  • Laila, Please may you explain what depot as in Sinemet Depot is?

  • Hi Laila E : I am from Bangalore INDIA ; pure form of MP ( Kapikachhu ) is available from Vaidyaratnam in Kerala INDIA; land of Ayurvedic Treatment . Please visit vaidyaratnammooss.com/. I am having PD since 2010 ; I am 55 Years . I am managing with Vaidyaratnam Kapikachhu 3 TBS daily ( most important - Empty Stomach ) and Ashwagandharishta -15ml ( after food ). No other Allopathic Medicine !!!!. Infact I used to travel extensively in Europe previously. If you need any help ; please let me know , drop a mail : ramanath.tarekere@gmail.com

  • Tried to email you with a question.

  • Hi, Drevy ; Probably it landed in spam, Sorry I would have deleted. Please re-forward your mail , I would immediately reply you. Once again my mail id ramanath.tarekere@gmail.com

  • Do you know of any differences between Levodopa found in Mucuna Pruriens, Sinemet, Madopar and naturally occurring in the brain as part of the process of making Dopamine?

  • Hi Pete-1, All I know is the Ldopa in the MP is natural and not synthetic and doesn't seem to cause disabling side effects. I will research the difference.....I am curious too!

    BMakla

  • Hello bmakla54,

    I use Zandopa daily, together with half a Sinemet tablet, and find it fairly effective. More so than Sinemet by itself. Looking on the Zandopa container it says that each 7.5g contains Standardised processed seed -powder of Mucuna Pruriens Bak.....6.525g in a flavoured base. I do not know precisely what is meant by 'standardised or processed' but I believe that the formulation does indeed come from Mucuna Pruriens. I have asked the question and it was explained to me that Zandopa can be considered an extract of Mucuna Pruriens. This could mean that that some or many of the the total number of 'ingredients' of the natural Mucuna Pruriens are omitted, leaving only those that the manufacturers consider effective in helping us PwP in alleviating symptoms. Whether or not 'natural composition' Mucuna Pruriens is more effective than Zandopa can really only be deduced by each of us personally trialling it against each other to find out. My main gripe about Zandopa is the sweetener added to make it palatable. I do not like it and have written to the manufacturers asking if they would consider marketing an 'unsweetened' version.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hi Norton, my only misgivings about MP is that the FDA did tests on random Ayurvedic herbs from India and found significant levels of heavy metals and other toxins....maybe that is why the medical community takes a dim view of such treatment.

    I do believe Indigo Herbs from the UK has stringent safety standards....at least I hope. If I do not do well on the powder, I did order zandopa also.

    BMakla

  • Hello Bmakla,

    Thank you for the heads up on the FDA test results. I have ordered a 100g pack from Indigo herbs just a few minutes ago. I did so that I can compare its effectiveness against Zandopa on myself. I believe that Zandopa is also referred to as HP-200 and if you look on the Internet using that full title, you will see that it has been used in one or two trials. Why? I can only think it is because of its possible consistency, maybe, compared with other brands. I could be wrong, but am willing to find out through trial and error. I am pleased that you have sorted out the Azilect contraindication before starting the MP. I look forward to hear how you get on in due course.

    Regards

    Norton

  • If medicine tastes nice it doesn't do you any good. The more foul tasting the better.

  • Hello Pete-1,

    I think that in general terms you could be right, but by adding refined sugar to the Zandopa it should make it more palatable, but I find it just the opposite to my taste.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Where is it that you get the MP powder and how much did you pay?

  • Hi Drevy, I ordered on line from indigo-herbs.co.uk- I believe I paid 10.00$ for 100g.......

    BMakla

  • Thanks BMakla.

  • Hi Drevy ;

    In INDIA there are various local names for MP ; I use raw & pure MP Indian Kapikachhu from Vaidyaratnam Kerala INDIA ; visit web site vaidyaratnammooss.com/ . They have total treatment for PD and many PD patients from US and Europe visit. You can buy MP Indian Kapikachhu from Vaidyaratnam Kerala INDIA . 100 mg pack cost about Indian Rs 69 ; appx USD 1.1 per 100 mg. It is quite effective ; I use 1TBS x 3 times daily , very important empty stomach. After food I take 15 ml of Ashwagandharishta ( Tabs also available ) . If u need any help pl write me a mail : ramanath.tarekere@gmail.com

  • I emailed you and you have not responded.d

  • i am waiting for your mail , pl forward again , so that i can help you in case u require my help

  • I forward my email to your address, did you get it?

  • Just now i checked up , sorry i have not received ur mail. If it is ok for u , pl give me ur mail id , i will send u test mail , so that we can establish contact

  • Hi Drevy ; Are u on line ?? Are U there ??

  • hii I M from Punjab ,India ... please let me know upto what extent has zandopa helped u and wat other supplements o vitamins u had been taking

  • Hi Alisha ;

    I don't take any supplements. I just take Vaidhyaratnam's (KERALA ) 1 TBS Kappikachhu 30 mins before food ( empty stomach works very well , as it can cross blood brain barrier quickly; other wise all the Med gets absorbed by the food !! very very important to take in empty stomach !!) ,now-a-days I take one big slice of Water Melon (Red Melon ) immediately after Kappi Kachhu ; this gives quick result and longer ON TIME . 1 TBS of Ashwagandharista and 1 TBS of Balarista from Vaidhayaratnam after food . I have good circle of fellow sufferers ; two Doctors ( One in INDIA and one in US ); we keep updating experience on PD; we are also trying LDN ( please google it ; you will get all information). I have tried Zandopa from Zandhu Pharma ; this has only 85 % MP ; thus effect is less compared to raw Kappi Kachhu , but Zandopa tastes better .

    I do take following also

    Water Melon : This has the capability to stop progression of PD : ; watermelon or pineapple helpful in containing and or prevent the progression of neuro-degenerative diseases !!. Pl see this link & also attachment ; it is interesting & easy to implement. clubpd.com/content/mannitol...

    Cinnamon : 1/4 TBS with food :Max 2 grams daily : If it gives any of you, stomach irritation, heartburn etc., reduce the dosage or skip it. This has the capability to stop progression of PD : benefitsfromcinnamon.com/be...

    Turmeric : 1/4 TBS with food : This has Neuro protective properties

    Flax Seeds powder : 1 TBS with food : Rich in Omega #3 and also helps in relieving constipation

    Coconut Oil ( Cold pressed; you will get it in Organic shops or you can buy online Viz : BigBasket.com, Snapdeal.com , flipkart.com : 2 TBS with food : Neuro protective

    Bhruhath Tripala ( Vaidhayaratnam ) : 1 TBS in warm water : Bed Time : Very effective in relieving constipation.

    If you would like to be on our mailing please send me your mail ID : ramanath.tarekere@gmail.com . I can also put you across Doctor in US or INDIA for free consultation ; who supports alternative Meds .

    Above all MUST Daily : Free Exercise 15 to 20 Mins , YOGA, PRANAYAMA, Cycling , Walking ( Morning & Evening Min 2 Kms )

    Regards

    Rammu

  • Hi: due to a left arm tremor I want to the Dr. and was dx one year ago ; once dx things started making sense ex. everybody walked faster, leg cramps, why people would ask what's wrong ..are you sad , are you mad. After that 1st visit I refused to go to the Dr. I wasn't ready to deal with it. But I started taking mucuna 700mg once a day about 7 months ago ( it must have been 2 weeks later that like a miracle one morning I was able to turn sideways in bed (for over 5 years I thought it was back problems) I also got relieve from nightly leg cramps. I now suspect the first symptoms started at least 6 years ago. Left arm tremors, left toes curl, tight grip on steering wheel, sore ankles and still some back and chest stiffness (exercise help) and facial expression are a concern, one friend already noticed the tremors. So I visited a different neurologist who confirmed PD and he put me on .5 mg of Selegiline HCI twice a day. I have G6PD deficiency and osteoporosis. I am not at all comfortable taking the rx because I am only 58 and do not like the idea of so many side effects BUT I am not sure about using mucuna along with Seleginline and because of my G6PD. It has been about 4 days taking 5mg and not sure I noticed a difference but I am not sure I want to go up to twice a day or even continue the rx. I prefer to try mucuna but I am not sure what the right dosage should be. The mucuna that I trusted is from Keter Wellness here in the US=Mucuna K-Dopa 20% but at 700 mg. I had not been fortunate in finding someone that could recommend a trust worthy online company. Could you suggest appropriate dosage? I'd like to vaidyaratnammouss.com. I hope to hear from you soon. Thank you

  • Hi,

    Dosage depends on one's condition, it is difficult to say what is the right, best thing is to start with 1/2 TBS x 3times daily and slowly increase in steps of 1/4 TBS per dosage and max dosage is 1.5 TBS per dosage as recommended by my Doctor. ( 1 TBS = 7.5 Grams). Please take always in empty stomach 45 Mins before food. It takes at least 20 to 30 mins to be fully ON, one can easily feel the action.

    God Bless you. Good luck !!

  • Please take it with 1/2 fresh lemon juice for quick action

  • hii I M from Punjab ,India ... please let me know upto what extent has zandopa helped u and wat other supplements o vitamins u had been taking

  • mucuna pruriens is definitely causng dyskinesia in me, after only taking it a short time. Perhaps without the carbidopa to help it . . . .

  • are you sure you didn't take too much? I am going to begin with 1/4 of a teaspoon...how much do you take?

  • COMBINATION.OF.OTHER.INDIAN.HERBS.LIKE.ASWAGANDHA,BALA,KURASANI.GIVES.BEAUTIFUL.RESULTS

  • yes..it.is

  • to bmakla54: is it known that dopamine in the mucuna pruriens reaches the brain? Just wondering? Thanks!

  • Hi PatV....yes the dopamine in mp does reach the brain and they really can't explain it....it may be the other ingredients that facilitate this........

    BMakla

  • I take Azilect and like Froggat55, it was night and day difference for me in just a short time. I hate all of the limitations, especially if I really need a decongestant, but would be scared to death to go off of it!

    I did find sources of MP in capsule form at swansonsvitiamins.com. I order my ubiquinol (ready to process CoQ10) and Omega's from them. They seem to have high quality products for anyone who is interested in the US. They did say it could not be taken with MAO Inhibiters, which Azilect is.

    Anxious to here how your experiment with this goes!

  • Thanks Susie01....I will check out swansons and keep you informed...

    BMakla :)

  • Welcome :-)

  • NeuroResearch treats Parkinson's patients using amino acids, vitamins and other necessary precurssors (which include L-Dopa as derived from Mucuna Pruriens at .40 percent concentration). On their posted abstract they took 1 man of 254 Parkinson's patients who had been through all the standard scientific therapies. All the standard treatments were ineffective with time and they gave him back his life. After treatment he was fully functional and could again play his guitar, work on the keyboard and was not afraid to go out in public:

    neurosciencemyths.com/Parki...

    NO DRUGS!!! No Sinemet....No MAO! inhibitors.

    PS, Once you are off Azilet you can also start taking the amino acid L-Tyrosine. In a 1985 French study it was compared to L-Dopa (Sinemet) and over a 3 year period out performed it. 5 people were on l tyrosine 5 were on Sinimet. The study is on page 4 (367) of the following PDF liink:

    thorne.com/altmedrev/.fullt...

  • Hi Silvestrov,

    Thank you so much for this info......it is difficult to find this information and I would like to know I am on the right path. Can L-Tyrosine be taken along with mucuna pruriens?

    My titration off azilect is going slowly...I am down to 1/2 tab.....will go down to 1/4 in a few days for 2 weeks. I am having bad leg and foot cramps at night....do you think it could be withdrawal from the azilect or not related? I am taking calcium, magnesium and drinking gatoraide before I go to sleep. I take vitamin b12 injections. I was taking B6 and folic acid.....but I woke up in the middle of the night with itchy hands....I think it was the vitamin B6....so I stopped taking it and my hands improved. It is a juggling act trying to figure out what treatment to focus on.....

    Thanks again,

    BMakla

  • Hello!

    I have read about Mp in this forum. I have tried Azilect only in 2 moths but it was only giving me headache and tinnitus so i stopped. My doctor wants to put me on Maadopark or Sinimet 400mg.

    I have instead started to take MP containers, 10% strong, 4 aday. What do you think about the dose. Is it positive to to take L- Thyrosin also and how much?

    What do you think about cannabis oil? I´m 51 years old

  • Are you still on the list

  • Yes you can take tyrosine with mucuna pruriens but not with sinimet. Sinimet has levodopa and carbidopa in it and carbidopa causes a conflict in the small intestine with tyrosine. In NeuroResearch's abstract they use mucuna pruriens derived l dopa (amino acid) with tyrosine - there is NO conflict.

    I am not sure of the effect of azilect withdrawl but I KNOW you should switch your B12 injections to the bio active form of B12 - methylcobalamin. The regular form of B12 is called cyanocobalamin and it is derived from charcoal and has 1 molecule of cyanide in its chemical structure - you read that right - CYANIDE. After removing the cyanide your body has to convert cyanocobalamin into methylcobalamin - MCBN. MCBN is cheap and safe and has been used for ALS, MS and chronic fatigue patients too. I would love to see your face with you first take this vitamin. It is the equivalent to rocket fuel and you will feel like you have boundless energy. Plus, it is used for peripheral neuropathy ----- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perip...

    Also, you should be taking at least 1,200 mg of coq10 a day. If you have proper liver function and am NOT taking a statin drug - don't ever do it, you can take the standard (ubiquinone). If you have liver problems take ubiquinol - the ready, bio-available form.

    Here is the link: altmedicine.about.com/libra...

    Do not take vitamin E with CoQ10 because it will diminish the effects.

    How do I know this stuff? I have been naturally treating my Parkinson's for about 11 months.

  • Actually my wellness Dr. told me about the cynide in vitB12 and she gave me the MCBN......it was my neurologist who prescribed the cyanocobalamin. I have read conflicting reports on CoQ10.....I will investigate further.

    I am waiting on my DNA test results given free by the Micheal J. Foxx Foundation..."23 and me" is the name of the project. I am also getting ready to test for heavy metals with my wellness Dr. I am considering removing my metal fillings and replacing them with a non-mercury filling. I want to see the heavy metals test result first. Removing my fillings could get quite expensive.

    Thanks again for your info. I really believe treating Parkinson's naturally is the way to go.

  • my major one is rigidity cant move hands can u suggest seomething please

  • Are they numb and rigid or only rigid?

  • only rigid but like rock i m like zoombiecan u email

  • I presume you have trouble sleeping and I take the amino acid, theanine, at 100 mg, which will help you sleep, raise your dopamine, serotonin, gaba and brain derived neurotropic factor levels. I take it 1/2 hour before sleeping. Mind you, it will take a combination of antioxidants to reverse rigidity. But this is as safe of a supplement as you can buy. No medical disclaimers at all. What I am thinking is I am trying to 'attack' the problem from multiple angles and taking theanine is a 'no brainer':

    maneyonline.com/doi/abs/10....

    I know it sounds crazy to take a sleep aid to decrease rigidity but theanine is an GABA agonist. And what do GABA agonists do?

    Amongst other things, they relax muscles:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GABA_...

    200 mg is also quite safe but it is best just to see how you react with the lower dose. Theanine is quite safe for children and has been used at 100 mg for ADHD.

    In order to expedite the process see if your local supermarket sells theanine. My supermarket does and a 2 months supply is 10 dollars.

    swansonvitamins.com/swanson...

  • tx so much but i got no trouble sleeping at all, so shall i still try

  • Good sleep/bad sleep.....theanine will still give positive health benefits. Theanine is in green, black, pekoe and oolong teas and its health benefits are huge. Parkinson's patients have low dopamine levels, low serotonin levels, low GABA levels, low brain derived neurotropic factor levels, NMDA/glutamate problems, low glutathione levels, weakened immune systems and theanine improves all of the above. It is, by far, the safest supplement think of and is a good place to start. It simultaneously calms and focuses the mind and, unless it is taken in divided doses, is taken best at bedtime. As for MP, you need to know at what mg dose of Sinemet/carbidopa/L-dopa you were receiving and then try to approximate it with MP and try to wait and eat heavy proteins at dinner - proteins interfere with levodopa conversion to dopamine. Besides levodopa, MP has 5-htp, which increases serotonin levels, nicotine, good for PD and a series of alkaloids. I hope this helps. PD is a strange disease because everyone seems to respond differently to supplementation.

  • so if i m taking lots of protein not deliberately it ll reduce drug efficacy?

  • Yes. And this includes cottage cheese and dairy. For PD it is recommended to eat low protein meals for both breakfast and lunch and then eat protein with dinner. Pasta and salads for the early means and animal-derived protein at the later meals, I prefer fish. Protein interferes with conversion of levodopa to dopamine and this too could be a reason why you current/prior therapy does not work so well.

  • oh no, i eat mostly eggs as i cant cooook so it might be creating problems

  • It might be contributing to your problems...and another supplement you may want to think about is, at least for a month or two, try DHEA: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/223... DHEA is the main circulating steroid in the body and is shown to help use dopamine better. The body should produce 25 mg a day, this is a standard dose of DHEA in a pill form, and everyone's DHEA levels, especially PD patients, decline with age. When I had my adrenal problems I took it for 3-4 months and the only side effects I know of are it might grow the odd hair where you do not want any - this is more prone to women than men - like facial hair.

  • please give me list of most imp supplements also i m taking no meds, now i m worried what to eat as my diet is protein

  • Mucuna pruriens

    N-acetyl l cysteine: medicinalgenomics.com/wp-co...

    I take 1,200 mg/day nac and 1,800mg is safely take too.

    meschinohealth.com/ArticleD...

    Mind you, Coq10 seems to be a hit or miss supplement for PD but it was like a thunder clap for me. It was one of the 3 most important for me. I felt better immediately.

    Acetyl l carnitine/alpha lipoic acid combo - very powerful supplements: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/204...

    Folate /(this is huge) methytetrahydrofolate:

    www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press...

    Take methylcobalamin with folate. Methylcobalamin is the most potent form of B12 and is good for peripheral neuropathy.

    ilifelink.com/xobaline_for_...

    "Parkinson’s Disease is usually treated with the drug L-dopa, which has, as a side effect, the elevation of homocysteine levels. Parkinson’s patients are therefore at increased risk of cardiovascular damage. A study in 2005 reported that dual supplementation with cobalamin and folic acid effectively reduced these elevated homocysteine levels — as one would expect.8"

    I purchase my methylcobalamin from Puritan's Pride or Swanson.

    DHEA (25 mg.day) may give you a short term jump because it potentiates levodopa in the body: google.com/patents/US7576073

    Also consider this:

    endotoxin.gmxhome.de/

    Mind you, this woman takes 50 mg DHEA every other day equating to 25 mg a day. It depends on your biological reaction to the DHEA.

    Riboflavin, which is cheap, and you can take more than 90 mg and now am at 200 mg/day:

    scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0...

    I don't what you drink...tea/coffee....but start drinking black tea (or take a black tea supplement):

    chineseteashoponline.com/bl...

    For sleep or relaxation, theanine and/or melatonin:

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/162...

    DHA/EPA omega 3. 600 mg of DHA + ?235? EPA.

    Flax seed oil is good too.

    I take all of the above save DHEA because I am fine and stable and do not need another supplement.

    One question: Have you ever had Lyme disease?

    Rich

  • Thanks. No i have not. So do u take all these plus ur meds. What should i take essentially coz list is long and i got no money. I mean the ones that are nost imp

  • i need to make list and check price

  • That is a real tough question and I will have to give it some thought. I just need to know how much you can spend a month? Some of these supplements are real cheap....is 100$ a month too much?

  • sorry for chewing ur brain, i can spend $50 on my card, but can try more if it helps to heal so i can work and pay. i will take the list and buy as i cant read bad eyesight, so relying on u wisdom

  • Part of my thinking will have to revolve around how long you have had PD and how old are you? It's essential.

  • 3-4 years but diagnosed june 13, i m 36

  • i tried not sure if it went throug

  • Hi Gurdeep ; I think u are taking too many Medicines. I am now 55 ; diagnosed PD in 2010 ; i was fine till Dec 2012 w/o any Med; only Exercise; Yoga, Pranayama, brisk walking. In 2013 Mar , slowness set in ; I took Ayurvedic Treatment Vaidyaratnam Kerala INDIA , take Indian MP Kapikachhu & Ashwagandharistha from Vaidyaratnam :http://www.vaidyaratnammooss.com/. If u need any help , pl let me know. drop mail ramanath.tarekere@gmail.com

  • I'm 75 y/o female. Diagnosed w/ PD in 2009. My only symptom is bad tremor in both arms and both legs.

    Do you have tremor that has been helped or know of anyone where tremor is much improved?

    I've read tremor is the hardest thing to improve.

  • Yes you are right , tremor is hard to improve. Off-late , I have slight tremor in the left hand during off-time some times. Please try lemon grass tea and prime rose oil capsules, both are effective for tremor.

  • i need to somehow cross border coz they cost x3 in here. also i m taking mag oxide 400 ng and l-tourine 500 any good??

  • Here is a link with the Michael J Fox foundation about diet and PD: michaeljfox.org/understandi...

  • Hello Silvestrov. I find your recommendation to take Theanine for sleep, interesting. I am currently taking 5htp for the same reason, but Parkinson's people have to be careful not to take too much in a dose, owing to the possibility of causing Serotonin Syndrome which can be dangerous. Have you tried 5htp to improve your sleep? If so, which amino acid did youfing most effective , Theanine or 5htp?

    Regards

    Norton1

  • I know of 5htp's benefits and know that Mucuna pruriens has 5hpt as one of its fractions. As for sleep, I take either theanine and/or melatonin: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/162...

    Theanine is the ultimate chill pill and also, when it is combined with caffeine: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/210...

    (Also, you will not get serotonin syndrome from theanine.)

    Nature knows best, because theanine is a component of tea leaves.

    As for 5htp there is a great article from the scientists at NeuroResearch about using 5 htp:

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

  • Thank you Silverstrov for your generosity in disseminating your hard won information for the benefit of us all.

    Regards

    Norton1

  • It's my pleasure. I am on here to help people and to disseminate information. I am lucky because when my symptoms first appeared I (accidentally) slammed a dopamine-producing supplement down my throat and within a month, the symptoms were diminished and then gone after 3 months. I only have fasculations, muscle twitching, in my left shoulder. I feel very lucky.

  • Silvestrov, when you say NO VITAMIN E while taking CoQ10, do you mean not even taking a daily multivitamin (which includes Vit.E)? Or would that small an amount matter?

  • Vitamin E from a multi-vitamin should be fine. The following article entitled, "Coenzyme Q10 in Early Parkinson Disease" refers to possible antagonism between vitamin E - in high doses with CoQ10:

    archneur.jamanetwork.com/ar...

  • Thank you Silvestrov! Listened to 1/2 your hour long interview and loving it. Had to go somewhere so had to pause it. Will finish it now....

  • Yea it seemed long to me too. Getting interviewed is stressful and I was sweating by the end of it. I had to buy a new phone + headphones to do it. All in all, an interesting experience.

  • You are correct the natural way is the best way to go and detox is absolutely important so I use magnesium internally and trans-dermally. Magnesium is best absorbed in a liquid form with a 2 to 1 ratio of calcium and a touch of zinc too. Magnesium citrate absorbs fine and mag. oxide is not very good. Magnesium chloride is to be sprayed on the skin and it gets absorbed at a cellular level so the effect is immediate. Magnesium helps to detox the brain of heavy metals and Dr. Sircus recommends a dose up to 760 mg a day - the recommended dose is 420 mg a day. I take about 600 mg a day. Each spray of trans-dermal magnesium is equal to 18 mg.

    As for CoQ10 the reason why you have heard conflicting accounts is because a 2011 study could not replicate the results of a 2002 study. The reason why the 2011 study went wrong is because they used 1,200 mg of vitamin E in addition to CoQ10. Please read the following (short) abstract about CoQ10 and vitamin e:

    archneur.jamanetwork.com/ar...

    It gives the answer you are looking for.

    Reply to this

  • I ordered and am reading the book "Transdermal Magnesium Therapy" by Dr. Sircus. I ordered it on my kindle and received it immediately. It is fascinating and I am going to try the Ancient Minerals magnesium oil spray......which I ordered from amazon. Don't you just love the internet! I can't wait until I titrate off azilect.....so I can put all my natural therapies in place. I am doing so much better now than when I was first dx with Parkinsons. I changed my life with good habits, no smoking, drinking.....I try to exercise and eat right.....and now the natural therapies.....I take Low Dose Naltrexone btw and it was the beginning of my progress toward recovery.....not cured but recovery. I believe it has halted my progression and acts an an anti-inflamatory. The first thing I noticed after taking it was the reduction of rigidity and pain in my back muscles and the ability to sleep in in the morning. I take a 4.5mg dose which I have to get at a compounding pharmacy since it is not FDA approved....I will never stop taking it...it is a miracle .

    Cheers......:)

  • First about l-tyrosine: There are several reasons why a person cannot take this supplement. If you are on a MAOI you cannot take it because it would cause high blood pressure and might kill you - also skip drinking the South American tea Yerba Mate because it has MAOI in it. Tyrosine raises blood pressure because it increases your nor-epinephrine levels - so people with high blood pressure cannot take it. Because it raises blood pressure people with weak hearts cannot take it. If someone is on an anti-psychotic they cannot take it because this med balances their dopamine and serotonin levels (and psychotic episodes happen with brain dopamine spikes).

    Tyrosine is to be taken on an empty stomach upon waking and about 4 o'clock in the afternoon. Take it with a form of vitamin C because doses of vitamin C help the body to produce the amino acid L Dopa (so the combination is perfect together). Do NOT eat anything at least 1/2 hour after you have taken tyrosine. Tyrosine crosses the blood brain barrier in competition with other amino acids and with taken with food will have negligible to no effect - just tyrosine and vitamin C.

    The following is a link to taking Naltrexone and coQ10:

    curesecretrecipe.blogspot.c...

    Believe me, before I started taking CoQ10 you could watch my chest twitch like a neurological pinball machine - it was pretty disturbing. I started taking 1,200 mg a day and have elevated it to 2,100 mag a day. It has worked wonders for me.

  • PS. How many times do you take the 3.5 mg dose of Naltrexone a day? I don't take it and it is good to have all options available.

    Cheers!

  • I take 4.5g of LDN at 10 PM....it is an opioid receptor blocker and should be taken when your hormones peak 10PM to 3PM......after it blocks your endorphins for a few hours, your immune system goes into overdrive......it is good for all autoimmune diseases......my sister takes it for MS and the icing on the cake......it is a super GOOD antidepressant! I will start my CoQ10 today!

    Thanks

  • Do you mean 10AM to 3PM - it just looks like a typo (you wrote 10PM to 3PM.) Previously I had a hypoadrenal disorder and know hormones peak in the early morning.

    I am a good source of info about Parkinson's and am making a documentary of how I self-treated the disease. I accidentally discovered I had it by swallowing tyrosine when I was depressed (and had all the Parkinson's symptoms too). I previously used tyrosine off and on since the late 1980's because I occasionally became depressed from the adrenal disorder. Afterwards I did numerous searches to find all this information.

    I have never been to a doctor.

  • No need to reply because I found the answer (before bedtime is the time to take Naltrexone) on the following net radio show:

    blogtalkradio.com/parkinson...

    I am sure you can relate to this woman. She had been on all the standard therapies in which she labeled as 'band aids'. Her life turned around when she started taking by taking

    Naltrexone. I know someone who I would like to prescribe it to but am not a doctor. Time to search for one....

  • Actually she is the reason I pursued LDN....her story and symptoms were very close to my own. We have communicated thru email.......she was interested in how much of my medication I could eliminate with LDN......I am tremor dominent with my Parkinson's.....I have read it COULD have a slower progression. I am also interested in people who say they have cured themselves, like the Dr. in Austraila who used Bowen therapy in combination with aquas....a system of hydration. I am beginning to believe one can definitely stop the progression with the help of natural therapies.

    I assume you are not fond of Doctors.....I admit I am anxious about seeing my neurologist after I quit taking all my parkinson's meds or at least the majority of them.....

  • Previously I had an adrenal condition for the first 48 years of my life and no doctor could figure it out. Their best solution was to place me on Paxil and I quickly went off of that. Eventually I figured out what I had and contacted Dr. Lam, a natural doctor who is an anti-aging, adrenal doctor and he fixed my problem over the period of 13 months using large doses of vitamin C - high tech versions, B5, sea salt, omega 3s, DHEA, pregnenilone and other supplements. I have a academic background and studied his methods over the period of therapy and just applied his methods to Parkinson's. Basically he is a orthomolecular doctor and by definition he uses larger than standard doses of nutrients to achieve a healing effect. I am sure you don't know much about a hypoadrenal disorder but you are hormonally imbalanced and when talking with a man I say 'you are in fight or flight mode'. When talking with a woman I say it is like going into menopause for your entire life. Depression, orthostatic hypo-tension, OCD, brain fog, inability to sleep, inability to wake up,,,,,it is not easy to treat and regular doctors will only put you on hormones. Really, when I figured out I had Parkinson's I just went to kick its ass because I know diseases can be treated naturally. Besides treating Parkinson's, a hypo-adrenal disorder, I got rid of bleeding/receding gums and hemorrhoids. When I read about people getting depressed about Parkinson's I feel bad for them but surmounting an adrenal disorder was almost Olympian and I had the mind set to fight it.

    I am an artist who has worked in film and am making a documentary about all the information I have discovered. The only way treatment for Parkinson's patients will improve is for them to take the bull by the horns and take responsibility for the condition. Too much passivity - the doctor says and I do - NOT ACCEPTABLE.

    Have a good evening I am going back to work on the documentary.

  • Good for you! I am also an artist. I paint, sculpt and make polymer clay jewelry. My husband and I travel around in our RV to Art festivals selling my jewelry....it can be hard work, setting up and taking down the tent, dealing with all kinds of weather conditions.......but I love it and it is how we make our living. I want to stay healthy enough to continue. Thinking outside the box comes natural to me.....so natural therapies do not seem farfetched.....only a challenge in seeking the knowledge needed to pursue them. Thank you for sharing and good luck with your documentary.....

  • I dont like doctors, went to mds once and decided they r good 4 nothing. ? 4 u do i need mag spray too for my debilitating rigidity or ur supplements r enough.

  • After experimentating with 5 different types of magnesium, Mg sulfate, Mg oxide, chelated Mg glycinate, liquid Mg chloride and Mg threonate, I use a combination of Mg chloride and Mg threonate. I use Mg chloride as (surprise) a deoderant and additional application on the skin, and it works well. Transdermal Mg chloride therapy is good for PD patients because the magnesium is absorbed into the cells and blood stream and completely bi-passes the unreliability of Mg absorption through the stomach. That said 2 of the above forms of Mg are easily absorbed in the stomach and pass the blood brain barrier: chelated Mg glycinate and Mg threonate. Mg glycinate costs a third of Mg threonate and is a fine form of internal magnesium to take but it does not affect the memory like Mg threonate. Mg threo was developed by MIT scientists to be easily absorbed and affect memory thus they made it for alzheimers patients. Cognitive functioning/decline is obviously an issue for PD patients and I like this form of Mg because it boosts the memory so well and improves (my opinion) my mental performance. In all I combine the 2 forms of mg and take about 550 - 600 mg a day. USDA amounts for mg (usually derived from diet) is 420 mg for an adult male. I can take the extra magnesium because I do not have kidney failure, Myastenia gravis or low blood pressure nor am I on any medications. Neurotin/gabapentin is an anticonvulsant and is prescribed for PD patients and Mg CANNOT be used with gabapentin. Other drugs can be interfered by with Mg supplementation and if you are on any it is in your best interest to research this issue.

  • so i ll wait for my supplements and then buy cheleated mg glycinate & mg threonate, is it ok or do i need spray too?

  • A bottle of chelated Mg glycinate is included. You have enough supplements (when everything arrives) so hang tight and see what happens.

  • ok then ll keep u posted tx

  • Hello bmakla54,

    I ordered some Mucuna Pruriens from the same company you ordered from and am using it. I am carrying out my own mini trial comparing the effectiveness of this product with Zandopa. I am taking half a Sinemet tablet with each dose. Sometime, I will drop the Sinemet to see how effective both the natural and Zandopa are without it. One thing I can say already is that the 'unflavoured' MP in my opinion is palatable compared with the Zandopa which I find too sweet. I have written to the manufacturers of Zandopa asking if they will consider marketing their product without the sweetener. They have passed my email to their R&D dept. but said even if they will go along with my request, it will take sometime.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hi Norton,

    Please let me know how it goes.....I am torn between taking the MP or the Zndopa. I still have a way to go before I titrate off azilect. BTW what dosage of the MP are you taking? And what is the equivalent in sinemet?

    Thanks,

    BMakla

  • Hello BMakla,

    There is no need for a dilemma on which to take, ordinary or Zandopa MP. I take nothing like the 7.5g scoopful which comes with the Zandopa. I started with a 5ml (teaspoon) amount initially, but found it wasn't enough; so I went to 10ml (dessert spoon) and found it gave me about three hours of 'on time'. I am still experimenting between the ordinary and Zandopa to see which is the most effective at the 10ml amount. I have not worked out the Sinemet equivalent and may never do doso. Why? Well the most important thing for me is the amount of 'on time' that is convenient to my lifestyle. I live happily in units of three hours at a time. The bigget problem for me is what to do when I am away from home. I have been taking half a sinemet tablet with a 15%LDopa MP caplet, but this does not give me a full three hour window and is more for convenience. Ideally, I would take a bottle of MP already mixed with water and drink it, but I haven't done so yet.

    Norton

  • Hello BMakla54,

    I am still experimenting by using the two types of mucuna pruriens both with and without a 1/2 of Sinemet tablet. As said previously, I have found it difficult to find the precise equivalent dose when comparing a1/2 Sinemet 25/100 tablet with the amount of LDopa with the two types of MP. So, as I said before, I started with a 5ml (tspful), but found that together with a half of the said Sinemet tablet tablet, I was not getting a satisfactory 'on time'. Therefore, I doubled it up 10ml (dessertful) and get about three hours 'on time', but this varies frequently, maybe due to my not giving consistent time between eating meals and taking the medication. I am not that confident about dropping the 1/2 Sinemet tablet for more than a couple of days at a time and need to do more research on this point, before deciding to leave the Sinemet off permanently.

    Also, I read in a book on alternative medicine that HP-200 contains other herbs in addition to the MP which was bit of a surprise. I have emailed the manufacturers to tell me, if this is so, what are they?

    A couple of points worth repeating are that the natural MP is perfectly palatable in my opinion. The Zandopa is sickly, sweet. Also, the natural MP is grainier in texture compared with the Zandopa and I find it does not mix as well in water and I have to run a little more water into the tumbler in order to get the full dose. I notice that I still have a distended abdomen and I can not lose weight despite eating carefully. This could be due to the LDopa in both types of MP and Sinemet, or the sugar? added to the Zandopa. Small points, but worth mentioning.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hello BMakla54,

    I have just finished doing more research on Zandopa to try and find what the 'sweetener' is and someone on Neurotalk says they contacted a distributor who stated that it is saccharin. All I know was that a couple of times, when I first tried it, I brought it back up. If this is the case and I will try and verify it, I will not be taking it anymore.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Thanks Norton for sharing your research. I am still titrating off azilect...I have 3 weeks to go. I have the MP powder and zandopa in my refrigerator. Interesting about the saccharin.......if this is true, I will not be taking it either. I am anxious to start the MP powder.....I know I will have to begin slowly.....I will keep you informed...

    BMakla

  • Hello Bmkla54,

    Just to say that I have emailed the customer care dept of the Zandopa manufacturers to ask what the 'sweetener' is in their product. That was the day before yesterday and have yet to receive a reply. So I have emailed them again asking the same question. Hopefully, I will receive a reply this time. No matter what, if the sweetener is either sugar, aspartame or saccharin or anything else, it is my belief that none are that beneficial for

    PwP. Hopefully, my communications with will prompt them to review the ingredients in their product. I will keep you posted.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hello bmakla54,

    I have written once again to the 'customecare' office of the manufacturers of Zandopa, making it three times that I have asked what is the 'sweetener' in this product. Yet again, my question has been ignored. Why?

    I can not help thinking that if it had been an American or British company my question would not have been ignored in the same way it has with this Indian company. Quite frankly I am disappointed. In all honesty, Zandopa might be a really good product and certainly I have not been disappointed in its benefits, but I just can not stomach the 'sweetener' taste and if it sugar or some artificial sweetener, then I don't want it in my body! It's a pity really, that it is possible that Zandopa could be even more palatable without the sweetener added. I think that I will give this product a miss from now on and keep to some other 100% natural mucuna pruriens product that has worked for me.

    Norton

  • Hi Norton,

    I agree with you about the sweetener......even though I ordered both the MP powder and zandopa, I will pass on the zandopa and only take the MP powder. I am finally off my azilect and I will wait 2 weeks before I start the Mucuna Pruriens

    I have read some very good reports on LDN recently. Studies have been done and in every case LDN halted the progression of PWP. Also on this blog, a member said that LDN could even after 3 years of taking it, start reversing the symptoms. My

    goal is to only take LDN, MP, coQ10, vitB12, transdermal magnesium and calcium.

    BTW, did you notice any difference in taking zandopa versus MP powder?

    BMakla

  • Hello Bmakla54,

    In answer to your question, there was very little difference between the two types. Intuitively, I err on the side of the natural one, because it is complete compared with the Zandopa which is more like an extract. Our immune systems should be able to tolerate nutrients taken in that are of a natural composition.

    Going back to your original question to this thread, I had never heard of the term 'restorative' in respect of MP. That sounds good, but I am wary about claims such as this particularly when directed at chronically ill people. It implies that taken long enough we should gradually get well again. Whilst that is my hope, but I am sceptical. Anyway, hopefully natural MP is more acceptable to our immune systems than are synthetic medications.

    I am also looking at our diet and the effect on our bodies of some everyday food items. When I have done sufficient research, I will probably write a blog to see what others think.

    I would ask you to challenge me on anything I write or comment on which you disagree with. By doing that, it will make me think and stop me going off on a tangent!

    Best wishes.

    Norton

  • Hello Norton,

    Good idea, I will contribute when I can.

    As far as the neuro restorative info ....check out..... mendeley.com/catalog/antipa... read the article (abstract) that was visable before downloading anything.

    This study was done on animal models of Parkinson's disease. "The results suggest that the neuroprotective and neurorestorative effect of Mucuna Pruriens may be related to its antioxidant activity independent of the symptomatic effect."

    We can always hope.

    BMakla

  • Hello again Norton.....I clicked on my link and it said "page not found"......I will do more research......

    BMakla

  • Thank you Bmakla54, I am interested to read the abstract.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hello BMakla54,

    Well, I eventually received a reply from the manufactures of Zandopa concerning the type of sweetener used in their product. It is refined sugar.

    Norton

  • Hello bmakla54,

    It's been some time since you were writing about mucuna pruriens and so on; may I ask how you are getting on with what you are doing?

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hi Norton,

    I went off MP because it was causing me severe restless leg. I was taking the MP that had all the elements in it besides l-dopa. I went back on 1mg azilect, 3 100/25 sinemet, and 31/2 requip daily. At night I take zanaflex for a periphial nerve problem and 300mg neurontin for restless leg. I also take 4.5 mg LDN. I can say that I am doing very well. Most people would not know I have Parkinson's if I did not tell them.

    I do attribute my well being to the LDN. I hope things are going well for you. My husband recently retired and we travel around doing art festivals. That gives me plenty of exercise.

    Sincerely,

    Bmakla54

  • Thank you Bmakla54 for your heartening reply. It is perplexing to understand why MP should cause you to have RLS. Anyway, the important thing is that you are feeling and doing well on the regime you are now on.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Hello Bmakla54,

    I was just returning to your post on mucuna pruriens of some months ago and want to ask you if you managed to drop totally the MP and rely only on the LDN? If so, how does it make up for the loss of Dopamine?

    Wishing you all the best for Christmas.

    Kind regards

    Norton

  • Hello Norton and Merry Christmas! I did not stop taking my 3x sinement (100/25) , 1mg azilect and 31/2mg requip a day. I still take those meds along with my LDN. I have tried to cut back but, it causes the dreaded restless leg. So I continue to take these meds and have been able to keep from increasing my doses for the last 3 yrs. when I was able to decrease my requip from 10 1/2 mg to 31/2mg when I first started taking LDN. I have had a break through lately with my restless leg, in that sugar before bed is a definite trigger. Also a high protein diet seems better for me. I hope this helps in your investigation. Take care, Bmakla54

  • Than you Bmakla. I hope that you are enjoying the Christmas break and of course keeping your restless leg syndrome under control.

    Did you see my protein question of a few days ago? I notice that you eat high protein which is a little surprising owing to many PwP experiencing reduced absorbency of drugs when doing so.

    There was a lady who replied with an interesting experience when her husband with PD, who was a lacto vegetarian found that milk products badly affected the absorbency of his drugs. So he dropped the milk etc and became a vegan. The result is he has bags of energy and his drugs now give him a longer 'on time'. According to T Colin Campbell of 'the china study' we eat too much protein. He gets his protein from a plant diet.

    The letter from HealthSeeker7 is well worthwhile reading.

    Happy new year to you and your husband.

    Regards

    Norton

  • Thank you Norton. Yes I am aware of the protein issue with our meds. I try to wait an hour before or 2 hours after taking meds to eat protein. I do not drink milk even though I like it........my situation is complicated in that I have 2 mutant genes causing high homocysteine levels.......the treatment is vitamin B12 which I take and it is also in my high protein diet. I also have 2 metal hips which means I can not walk for exercise....limiting my carbs helps me maintain my weight. I guess the moral is "everyone is different".......take care and have a great New Year!

  • Thank you Bmakla54 for explaining the situation. I wish you a happy new year too.

    Kind regards

    Norton

  • I have been taking Mucuna Pruriens since May 2013. It seems to help with fatigue and a little with tremor. No side effects. I have not started Sinemet (although my neuro is urging me to do so) I do not yet have symptoms that are too severe to deal with, compared with the possibility of the side effects of the meds.

    I did not know that MP was incompatable with Azilect though. I tried the Azilect for 5 days and had a constant head ache - I thought it was my diet, which tends to be high in tyromine - what is incompatable about it?

    Thanks

  • COMBINATION.OF.OTHER.INDIAN.HERBS.LIKE.ASWAGANDHA,BALA,KURASANI.GIVES.BEAUTIFUL.RESULTS

    in.india.call.for.this.combination..91-9949363498

  • I am thinking of doing the same - eagerly await your conclusions.

  • It has helped me a lot!! I use Advance Physician Formulas Mucuna 200mg which has 15% L-Dopa. My then neurologist was angry, but the new guy was pleased I was already fairly stable with it.

  • If anyone it is interested in read more about Mucuna Pruriens.

    There is a new book that covers very well the Mucuna Pruriens with a lot of references, it is a must to read.

    "Mucuna versus Parkinson: Treatment with natural levodopa" by M.D. Rafael Gonzalez Maldonado

    amazon.com/Mucuna-versus-Pa...

    Best wishes to everyone.

  • Some more useful info regarding Mucuna Pruriens.

    Mucuna Pruriens for Parkinson’s disease:

    iocob.nl/english-articles/m...

    The Magic Velvet Bean of Mucuna Pruriens:

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

    Mucuna Pruriens in Parkinson’s disease: a double blind clinical and pharmacological study:

    jnnp.bmj.com/content/75/12/...

  • More useful links about Mucuna Pruriens (kapikacchu)

    Kapikacchu:

    toddcaldecott.com/herbs/kap...

    Fava Beans and Parkinson's Disease:

    favabeans.parkinsonsrecover...

  • My husband has been using D5 Mucuna Powder (L-Dopa) ½ teaspoon 3x/day:

    (contains Mucuna Pruriens Extract (seeds) 600 mg) for about 3 months for his Parkinsons and has seen significant improvement. Would like to hear from others.

  • I bought some mp from the health food store to try. I am on neuro patch is it ok to take .

    Thank you.

  • Ramu sir Namaste, I need to talk to you. I am in Toronto but from Bangalore. Pls nimma contact number kodi. Thanks

    Raghu

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