Is life after 75 worth living? This UPenn scholar doubts it. bigthink.com/culture-religi...
Interesting article. Any thoughts? - Cure Parkinson's
Interesting article. Any thoughts?
39 Replies
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Apparently, the University of Pennsylvania is so bereft of actual accomplishment so that in order to get attention, they find absolutely the most ignorant moron on campus and put him in a leadership position as the chair of the University of Pennsylvania's department of medical ethics and health policy expecting that he would published a thesis that is stupid beyond words.
And, that's not bad enough, just to prove there is no one with an IQ over 80 that pays any attention to this University, other academicians actually take this blather seriously and debate the merits that life isn't worth living after 75.
Can you imagine being a Pennsylvania taxpayer finding out this is what the state's premier universities is doing with their money?
What was the name of that football coach that was molesting the junior athletes? Maybe the University Regents are considering springing him from jail so they can make him the president of the University.
Just goes to prove my old axiom there is no limit to stupidity.
Now with communications , internet , video, telephone cameras we can be stupid in front of the whole world at the speed of light, no limits and a fast growing highly educated base of stupid people to work with. Some day one of them will get a position of power and blow us all up. Oh ,wait N.Korea, China, Iran, USA oh well.
Jerry Sandusky. When I got up to pee at 3 a.m., I remembered.
in reply to MBAnderson
Your taxpayer rant and the reference to Sandusky leads me to believe that you are mistaking UPenn for Penn State.
MBAnderson in reply to
True enough.
Wrong University maybe but your article assessment is still spot on. 😁😀😊
Holy cats, good thing you held back, what did you really think? Though forever I have always been rather embarrassed to say I went to Temple, and came over 1000 miles to do so, always felt some social shame and respectfully removed any head coverings while over in the west side of town. Feel better about it now. Plus in sports we always kicked their asses. And they did miss my daughter's return of head&neck cancer.
Marc, I am glad that you chimed in. I am sorry if this article hit a raw nerve. I will also apologize in advance if this article upsets others in the forum that are in the age group that the author targets.
At 55, this article did get me thinking. If I am going to be so disabled at this age, how will I really be at 75 - two decades from now? I am terrified, to be honest. I am loathe to think that far, but I am very worried.
GymBag in reply to
really ? I am 72, I had no idea it would get that bad so fast. hahahahahahah
Astra7 in reply to
I’m with you. I reckon 20 years will be enough. How long have you had it?
in reply to Astra7
7 years. Diagnosed at 48.
MBAnderson in reply to
MALAYPPAN,
I do want to acknowledge that it is ever so much easier to cope when retired then when being your age -- 55 -- near the peak of productivity. Surely, it is far, far more difficult to be diagnosed at your age. I was diagnosed at 65 and no longer supporting the family. I worked another 4 years, then had to quit, so I got it easy.
MBAnderson in reply to
MALAYAPPAN,
No need at all to apologize. You didn't write the article. You put up the article because it was thought-provoking. Not a reflection on you.
I like the stuff you post.
When you were 35, you might have felt the same way about being 55. Same thing now. I'm sure we all fear being seriously disabled, but that is, of course, separate from age.
Most of us would fear the future if we allow ourselves to think that far in advance. There's little point to that, though. 1 of my guiding philosophical principles is, 'I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.'
Actually, it didn't really hit a nerve. What I found most astounding is that a major university is so asleep at the wheel that they would put someone who thinks like that in charge of ethics and health policy!
Marc
Totally agree on all points Marc.
MBAnderson in reply to
taurusgirl started what I feel is a very important thread yesterday expressing essentially the same fear which I wish were discussed more openly and more often because everyone feels the same thing at some point in their evolution. It got a lot of replies and I felt reading the replies that I could almost tell how long ago a person was diagnosed by their response.
When most of us are newly diagnosed, we go through a process of denial, anger, grief, eventually growth, and finally acceptance. When we reach acceptance, we often find that, initially, Parkinson’s is not as bad as we imagined. At that point we come to realize it's not a death sentence, it’s a wakeup call.
In other words, people who have been diagnosed with in the past few years are often full of dread and fear, but for many, especially those who aggressively try to control their health, who have had it for many years, that level of angst and fear subsides.
That will happen to you, too. You will have a more upbeat and positive attitude in the future than you do now. Take my word for it. (Although, we all have our moments, i.e., we all periodically feel exactly as you do now, no matter how far along we are. ) It's a funny thing, while our symptoms get worse, our attitude gets better. That's because most of us come to realize that while we do not get to choose the hand we're dealt, we do get to choose how to play it -- and there is only one way to play it that makes any sense and that is to make the very best of each day.
Our attitude is the most important and most difficult struggle we have.
Hi, I am 89 yrs. old I have had PD for about 2 and a half years. I was very youthful until PD came into my life. I knew because of my age I would have to slow down but Parkie really slowed me down sooner than I wanted. Now I can't do anything except go on the computer, read the newspaper and watch T.V. Forget about walking, or exercising and sometimes speaking. But, this is my life now, and I have to accept it till the end. I do not feel sorry for myself,just wish I was able to do more.
Lois
And this guy was one of the leading figures in creating obamacare? Lends a little more credence to the fear people had about 'death panels.'
One of my best friends is well into her 80s and one of the most youthful people I know.
You are only as old as you feel. Chronological age is not a reliable indicator of happiness.
in reply to park_bear
I get that. It becomes complicated with Parkinson’s!
park_bear in reply to
The big issue is whether or not we are able to halt progression. That makes a huge difference on the outlook. In my case, with the high-dose thiamine, the Qigong, and the celery seed extract - maybe. The jury is still out.
Yea , once we have to rely on our wives to drive us to the hardware, store , we might as well pack it in
I think he chose an age (75) that is a bit too young. 85 maybe probably 90 and if I live to be 100 I will have had PD for 45 years . I knew 2 people that made it to 99 , never complained and unlike this idiot in the report saw the potential and enjoyed life . That is what I want on my tome stone " He knew how to enjoy life" It is very straight forward , Life is good. There are a lot of family and friends waiting for me at the gate. Well let them wait, I got another day coming .
As soon as the sun rises I am going to the coffee shop and bring home a few donuts , then .........
My ideal was always to see 80 but not 90, but right now I'd settle for 75. He makes some strong points that are worth pondering. And its very true for me about the memories of your parents when they end in their aged life in poor health.
Despite my PD I have enjoyed the last five years of my life, I enjoyed my 80th birthday this year and looking forward to walking my daughter down the aisle next month for her wedding, with the help of a walking stick of course..
This is very much a cultural thing. In places where mature adults are appreciated and admired for their wisdom and contributions, people would find these arguments absolutely lunatic. Here in the good ol USA where we fear illness, death and ageing, and "old" people are ignored and degraded, these arguments find their home. I lived in central america for a decade. I had friends who cared for their elderly parents (wouldn't have considered putting them in a "home", if you can call it that), and while it was difficult, they also found it rewarding. Of course that's in the context of extended families, people helping each other a lot, etc. We live in a wealthy country where there is great poverty when it comes to this sort of thing. I agree that a lonely old age with disability, is a horrible prospect. It doesn't have to be that way.
I think rather than pick an age you need to look at quality of life and is the person still “there” in their body. My husbands mother has just died at 93, and we are sad that for the last 10 years she has been kept alive with medication to sit in a chair, not know who we are, or who she is for that matter! Now that is immoral and pointless.
I think so long as your mind and personality is intact people can still enjoy things. Food, movies family and friends. And don’t forget the value of the person to their kids and grandkids who may not be prepared to lose them. Grief is easier on the surviving family if they feel their parent has lived their full life. With my mother in law we were ready to let her go. If she died suddenly at 75 it would have been much harder but 80 would have been better in her case, when she was losing herself and we all knew it.
Where the struggle or pain is greater than the enjoyment maybe it’s not worth it and a person should have the option of refusing life extending medications and be offered palliative care.
Wow! I'm taken aback by this question. My husband who has PD (diagnosed 2017) will be 81 yo in December and HE wants to live longer and enjoy my company and what life has to offer and what he can still contribute.
I’m 77..I have a full and wonderful life. A great family, volunteering in the community, a long marriage, work out 3 times a week. Who says life can’t be great with Parkinson’s??? Or without
It's just numbers. But numbers aside when I get to the point that my mother was at five years before she actually died, I'd certainly like to have the option of assisted dying. End of life choice is being debated here in New Zealand now and I certainly hope that they make the civilised choice for us all.
I am 85 (Canadian, which is about US 60 at current exchanged rates) and still enjoying life, once a few limitations are accepted. I don't walk well, but I never liked walking anyway
I would prefer a motor bike.
Having said that, there are too many old people around. Clogging up the roads with their RVs and jamming up airports with their wheelchairs.
I suggest the following:
No flu shot over the age of 65
Not allowed to wear a seatbelt if over 65
No air bags when over 65.
Compulsory smoking when over 65
Compulsory sports eg 'Cordless Bungee jumping.
I need help. Any other suggestions?
You are joking, yes? Cause you are not joking you are in for a rude awakening if you think there are too many "old" people around now. The baby boomers are continuing to turn 65 and the world will be heavily populated with Seniors.
ha
Only intelligence applied to force will save man, so the old, but wise, is still the last hope for this civilization.
Gio (I'm 57 years old Italian, which is about 40 Canadians at current exchange rates) ... 
They made 65 the age for "retirement" because they felt almost no one would live long enough on average to collect their checks. Times are "a changing". Academia can be sooooooo inbred stupid when they are allowed outside their cages unsupervised.
So . . . very interesting and touchy subject. All good though. As MB said: "It's thought provoking." Being ever the contrarian, I will take the other side of the argument, but only to a small extent. My father is 81 now and in a nursing home with Ataxia and Alzheimer's. The cost to support him is $435 per day paid for by the State of Connecticut.
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I begged him to live with me for years so we could set up an apartment that was handicap accessible, but he was always fiercely independent. He left Hungary during the Revolution of '56 by crossing a minefield to escape to Austria and eventually made it to the good 'ole USofA where he raised 4 lovely children 
who all grew up to do quite well in life.
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Today the nursing home calls me almost everyday because they want to give him some shot or pill to "manage his mood" and they have severely restricted his diet to control his diabetes and moved him into a hall that is locked because he no longer recognizes his surroundings, his helpers, or even some of his family.
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His mother died at 88, at home in a tiny village in Hungary cared for by her son and daughter-in-law. She just stopped eating and passed away at home. No one forced her to eat, no one gave her pills to control her mood, no one extended her life to when she couldn't enjoy simple companionship.
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My mother's mother was a wholly different story. I was the only relative that lived close to my Nana when she became elderly. One day, I stopped in on my way to work as I often did, but this time I found her on the floor in a pool of blood having fallen and hit her head. I called an ambulance, went with her to the hospital, and once I knew she was safe went to work. She never returned to her house. Her doctor determined she could not live alone and placed her in a nursing home at 88. She lived until she was 98, but she too had Alzheimer's. Her last decade was a life spent in a nursing bed with tubes stuck in her to keep her fed, and her not recognizing anyone. The last time I saw her she was lying in a bed mumbling "help, help, help, help . . ."
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I am 53 and have Spinocerebellar Ataxia Type 1. My disease will ultimately cause a loss of faculties and mobility. I will NOT allow myself to end up in a nursing home because I will make choices today so my children do not have to make those choices for me in the future. More than likely I will find a nice shack in upstate New Hampshire with no mail service and a nice view.
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So, what's my point? My point is I agree the premise of the article is silly, but the underlying problem is a real one that currently society is ignoring with horrible consequences. My grandmother planned on dying at home, but that wasn't an option because her illness did not kill her, but took away every shred of dignity she ever had as she languished in a hospital bed for a decade. Sadly, my father's refusal to live with his children has resulted in a similar situation. Even if he had chosen to live at home, I'm not sure we would have had the legal right to let him stop eating when and if he so chose. The days of living at home until you quietly pass away without intervention are gone, and that may not be a good thing. None of us want to get to where my grandmother was and my father is now, but sometimes, against our wishes, we end up there because those are the cards we are dealt, and we didn't make positive choices when we could.
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For everyone of you 80 something's still active in your mind or body there are 10 others in a home who are being propped up late in life with no joy remaining. That is the harsh reality at which the article is hinting, and a problem society doesn't have laws to handle.
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Joe in NY
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