If you claim PIP (or don’t!) how do people here think the changes in PIP will affect them?
Benefits Reform’ -PIP: If you claim PIP (or don’t!) how... - NRAS
Benefits Reform’ -PIP
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Bookworm55
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79 Replies
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I expect it will depend if any qualified assessors are appointed. ..& what their brief is.
It does look as if new applicants will need more clinical evidence doesn’t it?
But I doubt anything will happen overnight.
There just seems to be a lot in the media about how terrible the cuts will be for disabled people (even before the actual details were released). The claimants interviewed all seemed to be clearly eligible for PIP payments- amputees, those with CP etc yet they all seemed convinced this was going to affect them.
I think a lot in the press is written by people who just read “the rules” & have no idea how the systems work in practice.
Sadly people with congenital conditions like Downs Syndrome seem to suffer by being treated as if they will”Get better” Hopefully that will be addressed by using people qualified to understand what could improve & what is with a person for life…& will necessitate particular support…not necessarily financial….which is what seems to hit the headlines.
I think it was said yesterday that people with lifelong conditions that are very unlikely to improve will not now need to be re-assessed every 3 years or whatever. That has to be good for them - and money saving for the tax payer.
Yes but if lifelong disabled people do take the initiative & get a job….they are docked money from their disability allowance if they earn over a small sum. Many people with life long both physical & Mental disabilities do make huge efforts to work, whereas those who have a chance to get better may not do that if it means losing unearned money….& having to work. Surely that is the group that needs dealing with?
pip is not affected by working, it can be claimed whether working or not . Its purpose is to pay for extra expenses of disability. So it is notcounted as income, and is not taxed.
You missed my point….I was trying to point out the difference between people who have a lifelong condition they were born with that has no possible chance of getting any better ever, like Down’s Syndrome & those who develop a condition that with available treatment can bring about recovery to the point where that the person does not need extra support any longer. …..so those people would no longer receive PIP. There is presumably something in the pipeline to set this up. ….Benefits can’t just continue when the condition they were awarded for no longer exists.
I understand your point because I fell into this category.
When initially diagnosed with RA 6 years ago it affected all of my joints including my jaw. I was continually in pain, not able to do much for myself and only able to be mobile with use of a wheelchair. Suddenly needed to buy disability aids and pay for taxis to hospital because I was physically unable to drive. So I successfully claimed PIP. After 12 months my condition had started to improve, and after 2 years on methotrexate and then biologics I felt PIP was no longer applicable so stopped claiming. It was a lifeline when I needed it though.
Good for you, but I hazard a guess not many people would be so honest,& that there are people still claiming PIP when medication has helped them to get back to being able to cope.
From what we read now, how Benefits have escalated recently that is almost certainly the case.I do hope you are still coping OK.
I've never been reassessed in 8 years, I have Rheumatoid,sjogrens
But will they consider RA is a lifelong condition? Manageable, yes. Curable?? It is worrying!
They will MJSLIDE I'm sure ,it's the Anxiety they have caused ,unfortunately if it goes through in may for next year, Have a look at the points system
You get it on benefits and work
Pip self test
Those effected who do not get 4vpoints in an activity,
I.e
2 points or 3 points
It's not good
You can see in the points scoring
Who it will effect
Noted and thanks very much.
But and this is the problem if an lower limb amputee has a prosthetic leg then how would they claim as its not clear how they are clearly eligible as they can walk and work aright not as a scaffolder perhaps, but Douglas Bader flew spitfires with no legs! And one disabled person was doing the interviewing on the BBC ! sorry I can't remember her name but some disabilities can be adjusted for in the workplace. The Council and Civil Service department that I worked for had rules that they were obliged to employ disabled people on an equal basis. It really wasn't an issue and it shouldn't be. I'm hoping the changes will help people into worthwhile positions and give them a better life. But not at the expense of much sicker people. I just don't like labels and am not disabled even with RA, CKD, etc perhaps they should look at the structure of giving companies tax breaks to encourage more employers to make workplace adjustments to enable people into work.
Tax breaks would be very helpful to encourage businesses I think. We actively encourage people with chronic illness to work with us and funnily enough, they have less time off than people with no issues. In fact it’s rare that they have any time off sick at all. Compare that to an employee who’s only been with us for five months and has been off with Covid, trapped nerve, mother in law falling over, daughter in a car crash, flu and is off again with something we can’t get to the bottom of. She’s on very thin ice!
We also support people claiming Access to Work and they’re really clamping down on rates. Where it used to be £25 an hour, now it’s coming out at £14 which is ridiculous. We charge £40 an hour so it’s a lot to make up for people. They’re basing it on having an employee which is madness when most people claiming ATW generally require around 40 hours a month and are unlikely to want to directly employ someone and the costs and faff that entails.
The problem with any government and civil service is that they’re completely out of touch and have little understanding of modern working practices.
Rant over!
You are so right! People who have life long illnesses make much more effort to stay in work and not take silly excuse time off! My daughter will crawl into work for 6am start and make sure she does with RA and medications in her. Without meds she would not be able to leave the house.
It's extraordinary isn't it. I have a lady with Crohns and it's bad. She's been with me for 7 years and had 4 days off with a broken wrist. In 7 years. Sometimes the pain she's in is extraordinary but she says, it's not going to go away because I'm sitting on the sofa and I'm better occupied. Warrior!
So very sad, but Congrats to her! If you could only know what my daughter has been through since the age of 17 yrs in middle of her A levels. She fell ill with RA badly could not walk or move. When started on MTX and steroids, she finished her A levels did well too. And then went on to do her degree. Now on Biologic too. Has had two operations on her ovaries and another in the very near future. Psoriasis now because of stress. She does not take time off sick, just the certs for her Operations. Even through lockdown she could not wait to get back to work. She is still working full time. Her start time is 6am 2 days a week and later starts the rest, but gets home approx 10:30pm. She has to work 40 hrs per month to keep her job. She is now 33 and has a long term partner. All they want is to buy a their home, get married and have a baby. But with the Ovarian issue and also meds for RA. She cries all the time, all the way to work. I feel dead inside! I wish I could take it all away from her. All I can do is be there and support her.
Oh my! That's so difficult for her and so hard for you to watch when, as you say, you can only be there for her. But knowing that must be a huge support for your daughter. To know that people have your back is so important I think. That's so sad she cries on the way to work.
I guess in some ways work is her escape if she loves it. Kudos to her for persevering. I hope her dreams all come true 🥰🥰🥰
I wouldn't believe much written in the press. They are pretty loose with the truth. Scaremongering sells papers and riles people up. The usual result of this is often more 'benefits scrounger' programs on TV, and more hate from a random person they've interviewed. I suspect the waters are being tested to see what the public opinion is.
Just to add...it's a pretty sick thing to try and implement. Particularly since there has been a huge rise in those entitled in PIP since 2019. No one apparently much interested in this significant rise. Added to that the closing down of jobs and businesses. Bit grim really.
Its too soon yet to assess the impact in reality. But my guess and hope is a good few whose claims are similar in tone like those done by companies will be weeded out. The points system changing is a good idea as it's too complicated but easy to cheat. I hope it will help people into work who can work and improve the lives of those who cannot work. From what I've read the benefits bill will be impossible to meet if things continue as they are but I do think it must be more transparent and Assessors qualified to look objectively with compassion and fairness to claims. It seems to me to be wrong that employers can appear to pay less to a disabled person who is claiming PIP to supplement their earned income. Thats not right and since Covid the amount of young people with mental health issues must be addressed to help them and society move forward. The whole system needs a complete overhaul but where are all these jobs people can get as around here their are few vacancies advertised although a lot of building going on. But do all young people have a work ethic now ? do some as children of claimants manage on benefits as have few expectations in life. The system has long since been tinkered with on a regular basis and each time its got more complex. Personally I think it's down to the get rich quick politics of the 70/80's that has generated a few members of society that thinks benefits are a right without thinking of social responsibility. We need to change access to work and speed up claims for those in need but maintain a sympathetic face to face method of assessment as it was in the old days when I did it. No more phone assessments its go in to office or they come out to help and documents must be provided and if necessary access to GP records authorised. It probably never be used but might stop the self diagnosis element of claimants. I don't know thats just my thoughts. We'll have to wait and see when the changes are implemented and challenged through the appeals procedure.
Good points, especially about employers paying less to PIP claimants and face to face assessments. There was a comment piece in the paper today about abuse of the Motability scheme - apparently 1 in 5 new cars on the road now are obtained via the scheme. It’s obviously vital for many disabled people but widespread abuse of the system is awful. Main car dealership’s love it of course as it’s helping to keep them afloat.
Great point about the younger generation. Their expectations have changed, society has changed and the world has changed. My Mum is constantly saying that she snd her peers lived through the war as children with fear, rationing, austerity and Dad away fighting yet they all went to school, found jobs and lived useful lives without the opportunities and benefits available today. There’s a lot to be said for the stiff upper lip approach although I know many will disagree.
This is so........very true. I am so blessed I grew up in the 1960s and retired from work in 2018. The laziness now is unbelieveable!
My concern is that they've pulled this £5bn figure out of nowhere. How can they know what the savings will be unless it's based on targets rather than need? And Starmer does seem very target-driven.
It won't directly affect me as I've never applied for PIP but I don't want people with genuine need losing out just to help reach savings targets. I think we all know one or two people who take the p*** a bit, but I'm sure it's a very small minority.
My guess is they have a matrix which isolates out claims under mental health and points awarded, same for RA, CKD, Limb loss, MS, ME, Cancer, Liver disease, Parkinsons, Elipepsy etc. etc so know exactly who they want off benefits and have a good idea of who it will be thus a projected saving. It won't be rocket science to target dubious claims and more power to them to prosecute fraudulent ones. Those fraudulent people are robbing us not the state. The state has no money its the public purse. I know someone I really hope gets caught..... And to be fair it is a small minority but it's stopping it getting worse and an element of a generation that doesn't need to work as benefits means they can stay in bed all day. That sounds hard but I'm sure we all know of someone like that. I never applied for PIP and didn't need it but had RA so one life impacting illness and was working to amongst other things to determine benefits based on a claim for it. Ironic really but the Council were great employers so I was lucky as should everybody expect an employer to be in the interests of fairness and equality. x I'm off my soapbox now lol and fingers crossed they get it right and not just another fudge up. And what are they going to do to get people in temporary accommodation/homeless/sofa surfing in work as often with no fixed abode they fall through the cracks and end up without benefits and no jobs. Fingers crossed it's the start of major changes that help people.
I wonder if as well as having suitably qualified assessors….the first move would be somebody,s clinical specialist would have to propose a Benefit, was needed…. not just have the person fill in a form with their personal ideas?
You are correct rmros,also disabled claimants are going to lose pip with the points scored change ,These include claimants with severe restrictions etc ,
You lose, no more points scored ,if you use adaptions ,aids ,need help assistance to wash hair or body below the waist,help in and out of a bath or shower etc,or supervision prompting ,
And assistance for dressing lower body etc ,and every other activity 3 points or less scored is getting taking away from the disabled
This has not been made clear, so what source are you using to spout these things. Please be careful we don’t know yet much more than changes are coming and isn’t that a good thing if it weeds out those who are abusing the system and supports people who want to work. It’s not about a political stance but common sense.
Please respect others ,it has been made clear with Liz kendals statement as you know it's facts .you need 4 points in a oner ,please respect others
Please read the governments statement on the direct gov website which I did, it’s not clear how and I’ve not been disrespectful at all. But you have picked out one item in a series of changes. It’s misleading as some may get more. Please stop and by the way I’ve screen shot your post in case it changes again.
It has and again she said it it in her statement to parliament points under 4 will be abolished, all leading charities and welfare rights have also got it on their website ,we agree to disagree ,best we move on ,so post does not get hijacked
P.s out of courtesy, I will watch the statement again ,and if not correct I will withdraw it ,benefits and work, etc are saying the same,I will watch statement again tomorrow
No you’re wrong she’s not abolished anything but saying that the Government are making qualification different and yes harder in some cases by looking at how disability impacts through changing how points are awarded. I’m not getting into a debate with you and remember you from previous posts. Please read things as some will get more help isn’t that a good thing ? and as for your post about below the waist qualification points it just doesn’t make sense
You responded to my reply not me ,besides the Below the waist washing and bathing and dressing etc getting help you currently get 2 points scored ,this is being abolished, no more 2 or 3 points awarded and if you currently get this you lose them ,new criteria you now need higher threshold 4 points or above its clear and facts
No one has seen the new questions and how there scored! As it still needs to pass in. the house of commons your repeating the media scare mongering.Until November it won't effect anyone according to the green paper.And then it will be If your up for review.
So really try to forget about it until the envelope hits your doorstep.
And so your aware I claim pip and esa
It's not good if you have lower limbs issues etc washing bathing cooking dressing etc and other issues, if you score the 2 points across the board ,they are taking this off you a labour government, there are lots though with right advice May qualify for the 4 points you need
With the majority of time rule or unable to do an activity once a day only as that qualify s
As the time comes nearer ,professional advisers may help there ,
They are taking away the 2 points and no more adding the 2 points now ,there are lots who use aids and get help will lose out ,
P.s
From a good source may be true fingers crossed
Starmer and co came out with this for the
OBR so there's no downgrading if case they may not go through with it or change it if this is true
P.s id imagine it would effect a lot of RA claimants if it goes ahead
I don’t understand what your writing?
You're not making any sense, I'm also confused about how you'd know how the points system is changing?!And what are you talking about with now only 2 points instead of 4...
It is wot has been announced and still to go through ,it's clear read it up all the charities now put it up on their websites, benefits and work, disability rights ,welfare rights ,it's the opposite you wrote about the points scoring ,have a look at the points system to understand ,proposed is now you must score 4 points in 1 activity question , you will no longer get it if your award is made up of 2 and 3 points added together ,The pip self test Benefits and work
You can see who it will effect on the points scoring
I don’t think it will unless I get classed as not needing review in 10 years.
I got standards pip last year - with RA, Osteoarthritis and Arrythmia ( ectopic beats)
I’m a bit confused but would expect to lose my PiP eventually which also probably means I lose my bus pass and the blue badge.
I really rely on the PiP especially in winter with heating.
Not necessarily, buss passes and blue badges can be claimed without PIP.
Surely that’s incredibly difficult ?
No not really, I did my last badge without including my PIP. Reason being, my PIP had less than a year left before renewal and if applying with PIP it gives the time frame of award. So I did it without, I just sent my letter with my conditions listed and filled out the forms x
Mobility is not effected with this announcement boys ,only the care elements
Claimed both for my 87 year old mum who claims NO benefits at all, without any problem at all although she can’t actually get in a bus unless I’m there to help
I'm on standard living. I didn't score over 2 points in anything. I know that the questions and point scoring will probably change, but I'm still worried. Without my blue badge I couldn't work. I can't get out of my car in a normal parking space.
Blue badge is not qualified by benefits. I have one but no benefits. Benefits come via DHSS and Blue badge the local authority so it will make no difference at all.
Hi
How did you get the badge ? Was it very difficult to obtain?
I had a letter from the hospital physio. So I didn't have too much trouble.
No it’s a straightforward application to Local Authority who issue the badges. I’ve just had an email saying renewal time. Just ask for the application it can be done online.
Mobility is not effected ,you will be fine there
I’ve been getting my blue badge for the last 9yrs, despite never claiming benefits. Simply because I’d rather avoid the stress, I have adrenal insufficiency, and don’t produce any of the stress hormone cortisol, I’ve been advised to avoid stress, so have chosen not to go down this path. I’ve never need a F2F assessment for my blue badge, it’s been awarded based on the evidence I’ve sent. So I wouldn’t worry 🤗
Same here and I put off applying as didn't want to be labeled as disabled. Then a friend told me sh'd got one as needed a new knee. So I tried and a fortnight later and £10 lightly it dropped through the letter box. Easy form too.
He only issue I had was on the last renewal. I submitted it 12 weeks before it expired. Them they relied stating it was averaging 16 weeks. This happened when I had the knee injury hat no one would investigate, because gp kept insisting it was referred pain from my back due to my AS. I was in a wheelchair at that point. I tried emailing to ask if could be prioritised, but no, had to go 4 weeks without. It ended up 16 weeks to the day. They won’t let you apply any sooner than 12 weeks before expiry though
Mine isn't due for renewal until June but I got the email last week saying apply now as we are sorry but long delays so it's the same all over methinks. And computers were supposed to speed things up. Its going to be the same start date but got the same email from Kent Country Parks saying renew the parking pass as, long delays too. I wonder if Tesco processed these things would there be long delays or would they open up another till. Just a thought!
😂😂 Tescos would definitely nail it. Good that you got an early warning though 👍. I need to check my local country park, as I can’t recall if I have to renew yearly, or just when the badge expires,
I know my local Tesco wouldn't open up another till. Your lucky if there is one manned till by an actual person.
From what I've read you must have got 4 points in any one description but until green paper out in about a week it's all hearsay.
Part of the Government's problem is the rise in State Benefit age to 66/7. That opened the floodgates to more people in their 60's able to claim PIP. They should have seen that one coming!
From what I've read and heard so far, the eligibility criteria will be tightened up for new claimants and those existing claimants being re-assessed. There seems to be a lot of noise about mental health conditions and younger people claiming.
My PIP award has always been 'for the longer term' and I haven't been reassessed. I told them my condition will worsen and sure enough it has, I've had more ortho surgery and can't do what I used to be able to do.
All of this has to go through both Houses, so it will be a while yet.
Yes, there are now huge numbers of people not working and not getting pensions yet who are claiming some sort of benefit and you’re right they should have seen that coming. We both fall into that category as our jobs ended early with the start of the pandemic and we are only 62 now, we saw it coming and planned accordingly, we are not working, not claiming and not getting pension but we are living off savings which not everyone can do and future generations won’t have saved.
Edited typos
I think we are all getting ahead of ourselves, we're unsure how the changes are going to fully affect us and when. I understand everyone's frustration as I'm in the same boat as all of you but if we stress ourselves out it will flare us up.I used to be on DLA indefinitely because RA is incurable and unpredictable, as soon as pip came, that all changed! We need to take this in our stride and cross the bridge when it comes to it x
Well I decided to apply for Attendance allowance as I got turned down for PIP a couple of years ago. I have RA I have been awarded low rate but for 2yrs only then I have to reapply. They must think I’ll be cured by then !!
No it’s not about any disease being cured, but things do change as having RA is not the qualification but how it impacts the person. Trouble is it’s one size fits all system but as I understand it, this is one thing that will be improved and it’ll be an automatic renewal or indefinite award so who knows in two years you might get a latter saying this is your new rate and it’s indefinite.
My last renewal was 3 years, got to reapply next year but that will obviously come sooner. I rely heavily on my car because getting to a bus stop, on and off the bus etc isn't an option. I'm 2016 I had everything stopped, because I could grip a piece of paper, excessive pressure on my joints causes infection, even tried going back to work in 2019, ended up in hospital with a foot and knee infection.I do think RA is massively underestimated and it must just be a bit of arthritis to them.
My last assessor tried telling me i obviously can't look after my children and made me feel like I'd have social services at my door 🙃
I am concerned about what's next but I'm not going to dwell on it, we are all used to fighting for our disease to be heard and this can not stop us ✌🏼
Was he hinting that you need to think about this question again to qualify ? I dont know obviously and its just my thoughts that it might have been trying to help you.
I agree, I think her way of questioning was to encourage me to answer the "better" way.
I applied for attendance allowance last year as have R A turned down, 75 yrs old and happy to help support others by still paying income tax on the company pension inherited from my late husband, ha ha ha.
I helped a neighbour apply for AA last year she is 82 with sight problems. I took advice on how to answer the questions from CAB and she was awarded high rate for life. So worth applying again maybe
I’m on an ongoing award for pip, since 2017 but recently my daughter who’s my appointee is helping with changeover from income support to universal credit and it’s yet another assessment I have to go through which doesn’t help when you’re ill and have anxiety. I really struggle with the questions, it’s bad enough seeing my specialist but at least they understand my cognitive issues. It’s too much to be put through especially when you feel so ill.
Take care
Wendy xx
Good luck ,with your change over Numtybrain Hope it goes ok for you and the transition payments if apply goes ok for you
I don't have PIP only DLA but l know people who do and for some it would be devastating to lose it. I agree it should be monitored but there are so many illnesses that are not obvious and preclude people being aware of their problems that mean they can't work. Age should also be considered there are some youngsters who look well with no problems but are many hidden ones for them as well. I worked until l was 70 and l loved it helping others so l am very aware of hidden problems . So no to changes for that if it's a proven medical problem mental or physical and l thought youbhave to have proof to have it so l would say no change
I was reassessed for PIP last month. The assessor must not have known what they were doing. I should have scored 16 points for daily living but was only awarded 8 (made up of 4 lots of 2 points). I haven't challenged the decision because it's too stressful and 8 points means that I still get The lower award. However, the changes made this week to the eligibility criteria means that from November next year I won't get it. Apparently I share this boat with about 1 million others. My PIP adds up to about £4000 per year. Times that by a million and that gives £4billion of the £5billion that the government says it will save every year.
Hopefully you you get wot you desevere at reassessment deacon ,and get a4 points,and get help with forms
Thanks. I don't need help with the forms or understanding how to apply the descriptor guidelines to variable conditions like rheumatoid arthritis. It's the assessors who don't know what they are doing. Or they deliberately don't apply the guidelines properly. Either way, it's unacceptable and does a great disservice to disabled people.
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