Yeast infection and Ra

[Simba1992]

Interesting article on the role of candida in Ra.

roadback.org/blog/yeast-inf...

[Matilda7]

Oh dear, I'm afraid this is yet another red herring with no evidence base. Can anyone provide any good quality trials to show a connection between candida and RA?

[Simba1992 in reply to Matilda7]

Don't know if quite a red herring. Here one recent link.

phys.org/news/2015-11-candi...

Not perticularly about Ra but connection to AI.

[Simba1992 in reply to Simba1992]

And a bit more reading. Seems to me that really something to find more aboout.

healthandwellnessssa.com/ca...

[Matilda7 in reply to Simba1992]

Nothing here counts as good quality evidence, sorry.

[Simba1992 in reply to Matilda7]

evidence for what?

[Matilda7 in reply to Simba1992]

A link between candida and RA

[Hidden]

There are a lot of myths about yeast infections and how they can cause systemic symptoms. If candida is in your blood stream, (and this generally only happens to very vulnerable patients) then you are very sick to the point of being in hospital, maybe intensive care. However, you can sell a few products and make a quick buck by telling people they have "systemic candida".

[Simba1992]

Here some research on Ra patients and candida.

arthritis-research.biomedce...

[Ali_H]

I've never had a yeast infection but in the 6 months before I had rheumatic fever I had repeated strep throat and a similar thing happened again some 36 years later and I developed RA - make of it what you will because me having strep throat does not necessarily mean that strep throat causes RA and if someone wants to statically prove that there is a connection they will need to start with the null hypothesis that there is no link between RA and strep throat. Then a bigger sample of 1 would be required to get a statically significant result and alas many so called 'cures' or 'connections' out there are not presented after such robust research but sung as true based upon advocates finding what they were looking for in the first place (an hypothesis proven rather than the null hypothesis disproved which is the harder and more scientifically robust thing to do).

Yes I am a sceptic!

All the best

Ali

[Hidden in reply to Ali_H]

Hi Ali_H, my husband has had a serious lung disease called bronchiectasis, necessitating continuous antibiotics since he was two years old, (he is now 70.) He has had pneumonia five times. All the antibiotics have given him widespread thrush, (candida infection.) This happens to lots of people given large doses of antibiotics. It's the heavy and persistent use of antibiotics that causes the RA to develop, not the yeast infection. My husband only got it two years ago when he was 68 after huge doses of antibiotics for an infected cyst in one of his testicles. Antibiotics interfere with the normal immune response to infection, and I think that is the trigger for the RA. I got RA following an severe adverse reaction to Penicillin for glandular fever when I was 16 years old.

[DelicateInput in reply to Hidden]

What happens is that antibiotics kill off all the good bacteria in the GI tract.

Candida is a natural inhabitant of the GI tract and is normally kept under control by the good bacteria (several different strains, eg acidophilus).

If you do not control the Candida infection, it can progress to other conditions including urticaria of the skin which then triggers psoriasis ... and hey presto you have inflammatory arthritis.

[Lucy11 in reply to DelicateInput]

Coincidentally I have never had Candida in my life. Nor have I ever had the need to use antibiotics--unbelievable, right? and yet 16 months after diagnosis I have had oral thrush twice.

[DelicateInput in reply to Lucy11]

I was told by one specialist that oral thrush is a different strain altogether from vaginal thrush strains (of which Candida Albicans is the main one with three or four unusual ones).

If you are taking drugs for RA, these will deplete the immune system and make you more liable to get thrush (eg HIV sufferers are extremely prone to it).

Also, all steroids will render you liable to thrush, but in particular injections of cortisone will permanently damage the body's glucose tolerance. That is one reason that you can only have a maximum of three or four. I only had one and it caused a dreadful outbreak of thrush.

I am a regular wine drinker. When I've gone on a diet or tried to give it up, I do get bad thrush. The alcohol does reduce the body's sugar levels.

Also, you are less active when you have RA, and exercise does keep blood sugar down, so again you are more likely to get thrush.

Diet plays a huge part and you can keep thrush under control by diet alone but it is really hard work. Vegetarians are more prone to thrush because their protein intake is low - it is easier nowadays as vegetarian food is readily available and nuts, for instance, are plentiful and fresh. At one time, it was really hard to be vegetarian and keep your protein levels adequate.

Just a few reasons - there are plenty more, eg people with RA are often anaemic and this can cause thrush. In fact, any underlying illness will give rise to thrush. Thrush is very common in women with endometriosis, and one reason is hormone imbalance, but any significant illness will give rise to thrush as a secondary predator.

[Lucy11 in reply to DelicateInput]

Thanks for this . I assumed it was from the immunosuppressants.

I have had steroid injections in quite a few joints. 6 or 7 in the past 3 years and was told more than 3 or 4 per year.

Your insights are very helpful.

I'm quite athletic and remain relatively so as I'm still able to cycle several hours in the mountains.

I sure would like to get a handle on this as I fear it may be a weak spot for me. I've been on RA drugs for 16 months and have had oral thrush twice.

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply. I will look more into ways to treat it.

[Simba1992]

I don't think it is a question of that candida would cause RA but it has been shown that patients with RA are more vulnerable to get and have this yeast infection which may make the symptoms of RA worse.

[Matilda7 in reply to Simba1992]

Can you send us the evidence for this claim please?

[Simba1992]

More interesting reading about candida for those who want to learn more.

myradiary.com/1195/rheumato...

I am not trying to prove anything only presenting some of the abundet studies an research done on candida. To me anything new I can learn about RA is important😊

[saskia15]

Not too sure about ANTI-Biotic relationship to RA. I very rarely took them in my 71 years yet was diagnose in 2014 with RA?

[Simba1992 in reply to saskia15]

There are so many players in RA. The effect of antibiotics on the microbiome and the effect on the gut and immuneresponse is just part of the interconnected process. Antibiotics, yeast infections, diet, genetics, deficiencies infections and so on all probably have the their role depending on the person.

[medway-lady]

I'd have thought it's more that as RA medications reduce the immune response so that Canadia is more likely to occur. Sure happens to me under right arm.

[Simba1992 in reply to medway-lady]

Exactly this is the hypothesis.

[Ali_H]

Hi,

I was on penicillin for 7 years after rheumatic fever as that was the treatment in the 70s and no yeast infections so I do find these generalisations a little tedious - we are all different and without robust scientific evidence I am not buying into any theories.

For me I think my disease response is more 'stress' triggered than anything else as before my rheumatic fever there was a period of stress with my first serious episode of depression and then before my RA diagnosis there was a prolonged period of considerable stress - but I've no specific proof just thoughts about my own immune system and what 'spooks' it into a state imbalance.

All the best

Ali

[Simba1992 in reply to Ali_H]

Stress surely one of the big players. Yeast infection doesn't always give signs. I had my bm analysed an candida clony was detected. Had no idea of this before test.

[Damaged]

The reality is they are probably all linked indirectly. We all respond to our environment , like drugs, in our own unique ways. I suspect that repeated infections throughout my childhood likely triggered my RD. There is simply no way of knowing with any degree of certainty.

I say do what works for you. If following this candidate connection speaks to your condition then by all means pursue it. I have never had a candida infection but definitely have severe RD. We also live in a time of incredible chemical assaults. I have seen a significant rise in total allergies syndrome, for example. It seems everything we eat, drink, and breath is a health hazard. Maybe genetically we are preparing our immune system for what is yet to be. Who knows, I like to keep an open mind. I do get very tired of all these "miracle cures". Amazing just how expensive it all is. Don't be sucked in.

[Simba1992 in reply to Damaged]

Exactly, there are no miracle cures but we are learning more and more about the whole picture of autoimmunity. Everyone of us as has been stated over and over again have are own individual RA situation where different triggers are accentuated, this is why there is no treatment that fits all but if we are able to identify the main triggers and how they are interconnected we have a much better chance to analyze are own indivibual situation in relation to these.

[DelicateInput]

I have been prone to thrush for 40 years. There are several reasons for this including:-

(a) I have is an unusual strain of thrush and the usual commercial treatments are solely for the most common strain which is Candida Albicans, therefore they did not work; I have had this tested.

(b) I am not diabetic but I do have a problem with sugar known as glucose intolerance. I was on a sugar free diet in my 30s for ten years during which I only ate a daily intake of 20g sugar which comprised one or two pieces of fruit and one or two diet yogurts. The rest of my diet was fish, green veg, nuts, dairy.

Around 15 years ago I was treated with huge doses of antibiotics for a perceived chest infection which never cleared up. However, the antibiotics resulted in horrendous thrush. The thrush caused urticaria (a skin allergy) which was relieved by anti histamines. I tried, as an experiment, to do without the anti histamines. The urticaria progressed and I eventually developed a different skin condition which I assumed was psoriasis.

Ten years later, I developed inflammatory arthritis and I still get the psoriasis though not officially diagnosed as such. It appears as thick silvery scales here and there but also as a marked rash on my feet.

There may well be a connection but I think medical practitioners are only interested in reaching for the prescription pad to relieve one ill which then results in another.

I largely agree with the article, as a long-term sufferer of Candida.

[Bleakin]

Interesting post on Candida; I've RA (& Dip joint Heberden's nodes OA) & been on injectable methotrexate since Feb/17 & <& took pill form for 6 moths beforehand), and I have been noticing some nasty candida type symptoms, aside from serious cravings of dark chocolate. I follow a AIP/Paleo type diet, take fish oil supplements & other vitamins recommended by nutritionist, but stopped taking Symprove (which inccidently I first took after foot surgery as I knew there was a correlation between restoring necessary gut bacteria after taking antibiotic). So I have decided to get back on the Symprove for awhile & try to cut back on any sugar. I would rather just off the MTX altogether as I was in good health before the RA started, but that not going happen yet.

Simba - what type of Candida test did you have - blood/stool?

Inccidently, was advised by a nutritionist as part of a cleanse, in the initial stages of RA diagnosis to take tablet courses of Oil of Oregano and around this period (along with AIP diet) I got my ESR blood test results down to half of what is was. I see in one of these articles on Candida, that this is too strong on the good gut bacteria and instead caprylic acid is recommended.

[Simba1992]

Hello Bleakin,

Yes I had a stool test that showed I had a little candida. Was recommended oregano and garlic oil. Did take them for a while but not anymore. Don't really know if there is a connection between mtx and candida, have to look it up😊xx Simba