Ive had to type something on here to vent my seething anger.
Im am so so sick of reading articles that claim nicotine addiction is the worst to break and is more difficult and 'painful' to withdraw from than heroin, largely considered the 'worst' drug. It seems that this is such a widespread idea, and I think it is such rubbish.
I do not wish to belittle anybody's effort in stopping smoking, but I believe there is only one thing that makes it so difficult - and that is your own mind.
Having grown up around an alcoholic, I can tell you that you have never seen withdrawal pain until you have witnessed something more severe than someone quitting cigarettes. Im referring to the violent shaking, seizures, sweats, vomiting, total lack of memory loss, hallucinations, and still people in the media, and other sources continue to massage the egos, and patronise us smokers into believing that we have the worst struggle on our hands.
As I state in the title, I do not wish to offend anybody who has suffered withdrawals, but having researched my topic, I am aware of heavy smokers who have quit cold turkey and experienced no withdrawals - I am merely suggesting that this is due to the mental state of the addict.
Nicotine is purely a mental addiction.
In researching this subject at length, I am still to encounter or find a chronic alcoholic, or class-a user who can quit using only grit and determination, and avoid unpleasant (sometimes fatal) withdrawal symtoms. The first hand proof is there. Smoking can be stopped without any withdrawal symptoms.
I am extremely interested in other peoples experiences, and would like to think what other people feel when they read the often quoted;
"Smoking is harder to quit than Heroin"
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I always understood that Nicotine was more addictive than heroin, not that the withdrawal was worse.
My Step mother was an alcoholic and when there was very little money I know for a fact that she would rather have fags than whiskey. But she would go to bed for the rest of the day because she used to feel very unwell.
I have also been told that the reason they say it is easier to give up Heroin is because Heroin is not acceptable in society. Many, many places you go you get reminders or temptations to smoke, just driving along the road you see people outside buildings smoking, outside supermarkets. You see the cigarette counter in supermarkets, petrol stations etc etc, so you have a constant reminder.
Smoking is affordable for many, so if someone wanted they could just go into a shop and get some, that is the reasons I thought they said it was harder than heroin to give up.
You are right that they say Nicotine is more addictive. However, addiction can only be measured by the effects of abstinence. Therefore by definition, the quote I used suggests that withdrawal would be more difficult.
Besides, I dont know many people who have tuned to crime in order to fund their cigarette habit, and I do know people that have had to quit down to cost.
You are right that they say Nicotine is more addictive. However, addiction can only be measured by the effects of abstinence. Therefore by definition, the quote I used suggests that withdrawal would be more difficult.
Besides, I dont know many people who have tuned to crime in order to fund their cigarette habit, and I do know people that have had to quit down to cost.
Yes I agree but does that not get covered in the cost of a fix? the crime becomes larger and thus more noticeable, people are more able to 'lend you a cigarette or even the price of' or to steal for the price of a packet of fags is not as noticeable. I am not sure what the price of a heroin fix is but I would guess that it is more than the price of a packet of bensons!
Heroin is a bugger to kick, but in a group I once went to several people kicked it, one with little no problems another girl was hospitalised for weeks. withdrawal and its effects on the body and chemicals is different for everyone because we are all made up differently - I believe Heroin and Alcohol withdrawal to be the most life threatening, however for some of us so is quitting smoking.
Hope you are enjoying the debate, I agree with you , but there are so many elements to be taken into consideration
My point (and I really am open minded - I love a good debate! :)) is that it is only as difficult as you make it. Have I miss read that or are you implying that smoking abstinence can be life threatening for some people?
Hey both, I'm not very good at this debating stuff but just wanted to say:
I can see both points, I really can
No one has ever said nicotine or smoking is easy to give up and I don't think for one minute that is what MrViginia26 is trying to say. It is not it is very difficult we all know that otherwise we wouldn't be here, and for some of us it is serveral attempts later.
But the withdrawl from nicotine surely cannot be as bad as the withdrawl from heroin or alcohol.
I don't know I'm no expert on this but I would have to lean towards the side that withdawl from heroin & alcohol is much much worse?
A substance can be very addictive yet the withdrawal symptoms may not be life threatening, the two are not related by intensity. When they say smoking is more addictive than heroin, what I think they mean is less exposure is needed to form the addiction. This has nothing to do with the severity or type of withdrawal symptoms. So heroin could be less addictive than nicotine, but once addicted could have more severe withdrawal symptoms. At least that is how I understand it.
But I agree that much of what makes stopping smoking difficult or easy is in your mind. I do think there are withdrawal symptoms, they are real, but I think we can make it worse than it is. You are very correct, withdrawal from nicotine will not kill you, and we need to put that in perspective. I also think we have to face the fact that you will have to just go through it, but it will be over sooner or later. I also see a lot of misery likes company when it come to stopping smoking.
All these things is why I am working on mood and mind set so much. You have to think positive thoughts and you must stop wanting to smoke, if you ever expect to happily stop smoking for good. Nothing can give you this, not NRT or a drug or words of support from others will make you want to stop smoking to the point you will actually do it. But practice does make perfect. The more effort and time you put into thinking only good thoughts, the easier it gets and the more those positive thoughts become the way you look at it. I think all of this has a lot to do with what you are talking about.
My point (and I really am open minded - I love a good debate! :)) is that it is only as difficult as you make it. Have I miss read that or are you implying that smoking abstinence can be life threatening for some people?
Yes you read correctly, some people have disorders that mean the depression you can suffer due to not smoking can be so bad that they take their own life. A recent study shows that the nicotine withdrawal can unbalance some suffering from certain types of mental illness, these side effects creep up on you or you don't see them coming.
Yes you read correctly, some people have disorders that mean the depression you can suffer due to not smoking can be so bad that they take their own life. A recent study shows that the nicotine withdrawal can unbalance some suffering from certain types of mental illness, these side effects creep up on you or you don't see them coming.
I know this is a minority, but it still follows
A pre existing condition is not looking at withdrawal in isolation. Im talking about the difference between an otherwise 'healthy' person giving up an addictive substance, and the direct effects of abstaining from said substance.
I thoughtI would Wiki it so we can all compare the actual withdrawal symptoms as this is a debate we need facts! (ha ha ha ha this is truly helping my need for something to do!)
Heroin withdrawal Symptoms
Symptoms may include: sweating, malaise, anxiety, depression, priapism, extra sensitivity of the genitals in females, general feeling of heaviness, cramp-like pains in the limbs, excessive yawning or sneezing, tears, rhinorrhea, sleep difficulties (insomnia), cold sweats, chills, severe muscle and bone aches; nausea and vomiting, diarrhea, cramps, and fever.[1]
Many symptoms of opioid withdrawal are due to rebound hyperactivity of the sympathetic nervous system, which can be suppressed with clonidine (Catapres), a centrally-acting alpha-2 agonist primarily used to treat hypertension. Another drug sometimes used to relieve the "restless legs" symptom of withdrawal is baclofen, a muscle relaxant. Diarrhea can likewise be treated with the peripherally active opioid drug loperamide.
[edit]Itchy blood
Many users also complain of a painful condition, the so-called "itchy blood", which often results in compulsive scratching that causes bruises and sometimes ruptures the skin, leaving scabs. Abrupt termination of heroin use often causes muscle spasms in the legs (restless leg syndrome, [also known as "kicking the habit"]). The intensity of the withdrawal syndrome is variable depending on the dosage of the drug used and the frequency of use. Very severe withdrawal can be precipitated by administering an opioid antagonist to a heroin addict
Nicotine withdrawal
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nicotine withdrawal is a term used to describe the effects felt by a person who is nicotine dependent and suddenly stops or significantly reduces his/her nicotine intake. Since smoking cigarettes is the most popular form of nicotine use, the effects of nicotine withdrawal have been most commonly observed in people who are in the process of quitting smoking. Symptoms can include craving cigarettes, becoming irritable, and suffering from intense headaches and increased blood pressure. Persons who have smoked a higher number of cigarettes or for a longer period of time are more likely to experience these symptoms, although almost all people who try to ‘kick the habit’ suffer some form of withdrawal symptoms from the drug.
When regular smokers quit, they often have strong cravings when they are placed in situations associated in their minds with smoking (e.g. leaving home in the morning, on a coffee break, etc). The most common symptoms of nicotine withdrawal are impaired concentration, irritability, tension, disturbed sleep or drowsiness, intense longing for a cigarette/nicotine, headaches, and an increased appetite leading to weight gain. Sometimes people can experience nicotine withdrawal when cutting down to light cigarettes or cutting down the number smoked.
As we can all see from this, the Heroin withdrawal is much worse symptoms than nicotine.
In my current research on the subject I found myself on a similar site for people quitting class a drugs! and believe it or not they have the same debate going on!:confused:
I am aware of heavy smokers who have quit cold turkey and experienced no withdrawals - I am merely suggesting that this is due to the mental state of the addict.
Nicotine is purely a mental addiction.
"Smoking is harder to quit than Heroin"
Firstly I have no idea whether smoking is harder to quit than Heroin as I have never tried to give up Heroin. However I do not think your sweeping statement of 'It's only as difficult as you make it' is a bit of a slap in the face to those of us who have had a rough ride BUT who have come out of it.
You admitted in another post you have had several attempts but failed, this is my first attempt after 22 years of heavy smoking and I was extremely surprised how difficult it was, however your question was 'is it all in the mind'? and my answer is no. Bleeding gums and constipation are not mental issues and are a very real side effect (laughable maybe but painful), depression too is a side effect which is caused by chemical imbalance, flu like symptoms and fever are other side effects.
I know that if giving up smoking was just all in the mind, there would be no need for this forum and as a strong career women who's favourite expression is ‘get a grip’ I can assure you quitting smoking takes a very strong mind set and is not for the weak but lets not forget our body goes through withdrawal as well as our minds which means Nicotine is not purely a mental addiction.
However I do not think your sweeping statement of 'It's only as difficult as you make it' is a bit of a slap in the face to those of us who have had a rough ride BUT who have come out of it.
That is a little unfair pasting a bit of my original post and then guilting me. I took time to consider how my argument would be perceived and made sure that I explained, that I wasnt belittling anyones experiences of difficulty in quitting smoking.
Please dont manipulate my post, and make it look as though I have posted something inflammatory.
I have experienced bleeding gums on and off due to change of toothbrush, brushing too hard. And constipation could be down to something as simple as not drinking enough water. However, as this was meant for discussion, I am not closed minded or arrogant enough to think that I am 100%, and I know that everyone has different experiences. As a 'career professional' myself, I have learned that people can take offence when you raise contentious issues, hence the sensitivity of my original post.
My point (and I really am open minded - I love a good debate! :)) is that it is only as difficult as you make it. Have I miss read that or are you implying that smoking abstinence can be life threatening for some people?
Is that better actually putting the full post up?? You put 'MY POINT IS THAT IT IS ONLY AS DIFFICULT AS YOU MAKE IT'. Personally I find that a very sweeping statement.
That is a little unfair pasting a bit of my original post and then guilting me. I took time to consider how my argument would be perceived and made sure that I explained, that I wasnt belittling anyones experiences of difficulty in quitting smoking.
Please dont manipulate my post, and make it look as though I have posted something inflammatory.
I have experienced bleeding gums on and off due to change of toothbrush, brushing too hard. And constipation could be down to something as simple as not drinking enough water. However, as this was meant for discussion, I am not closed minded or arrogant enough to think that I am 100%, and I know that everyone has different experiences. As a 'career professional' myself, I have learned that people can take offence when you raise contentious issues, hence the sensitivity of my original post.
You edited your post so I will reply again:
If you do not think these are a side effects to the quit, please ask your dentist and doctor. You are also belittling your other attempts at quitting by saying 'it is all in the mind' , which means you have been weak minded before. Do not put yourself and others down, quitting is hard there is nothing wrong with admitting that.
You are on day 1, I wish you well but I would prefer to carry on this debate when you have reached month 4 and obviously if this quit is all in our minds it should be very easy for you. I wish you all the best my love.
I am on day three now, but thank you for well wishes.
I cannot offer any further explanation, or emphasise any more the fact that I didnt mean to offend anyone, I feel I have been quite explicit with that sentiment.
I cant speak for the other people that I am apparently belittling, but I can say that my previous attempts to quit (6 months, 2 months, and 2 months) were achieved because I felt mentally strong, and I acknowledge that each attempt that I failed to keep going, was due to my mental weakness. That isnt selling myself short, just being honest with myself.
I feel that I am better equipped with these failed experiences behind me, and I would only hope that everyone on this site will remain 'on the wagon' long term.
I do feel that your comment where you referred to me as 'my love' was somewhat patronising, but I also accept that I have inadvertantly offended you, so I hope that with this in mind we can agree to disagree on some level, and move forward supporting each other, and all the other 'forumites'
I don't think at all that it is all in the mind. I agree with parts of what everyone has said. Alot of it is to do with habit and things we asscoiate with used to associate with smoking.
Mr Virgina26 - one question if it was all in the mind why would some of us like me need patches to gradually "ween" us off the nicotine and to help with withdrawl? How are you giving up? Are you going cold turkey?
Littleoleme2 - I don't know if nicotine is more difficult to give up than heroin as I've never taken heroin. From my own experience I find it very difficult to give up smoking as we all do otherwise I wouldn't be here. I just thought that withdrawl from heroin, etc would be far worse (cold sweats, etc) but then again I really do suppose that depends on the person as everyone is different with their quits.
I am trying patches this time, as I need help to get that mental edge. I do think they have a certain psychsematic effect - FOR ME. I am NOT saying that I am right, just that many people I know have failed quits due to bad withdrawals, and then finally quit without 'suffering' at all. Its only my experiences, and as I KEEP saying, I am not accusing anyone of being weak, and I acknowledge that it IS HARD TO QUIT, but I also think the hard part is reaching the right point MENTALLY!
OK MrVirgina26 I see your point (sort of) as in people to get in the right mindset but I think that comes with time.
However, if it was all in the mind you wouldn't need patches - do you know what I mean? I tried CT and I was literally climbing the walls I mean literally so that is withdrawl right? Or is it all my mind? The patches have given me that nicotine which is helping me with my quit and quite frankly no matter how positive I am trying to be there is absoultely no way I'd be able to do it without them.
We are a support group on here and we are all trying to help each other out with their quits as everyone's quits are different.
Ok, Im aware that I am not getting my point across.
In summary (only my belief)
It is in the mind. SOME people can quit without any withdrawals. Some people (including me this time) find it helpful to use something (NRT) that gives them a focus, which takes the edge off.
I have never experienced ANY physical withdrawals from nicotine, I have not failed attempts to quit because of any unpleasant physical symptoms, only my mental weakness, believing I could have one cigarette.
I AM NOT HAVING A GO AT PEOPLE - I am just being honest about my opinions.
At the end of the day I am here, trying to quit smoking, and yes it is crap not to be able to enjoy a cigarette. But I am not moping around, I dont want to light a cigarette more than I do want to light a cigarette, and as long as each day feels like that, then the desire to light up will lose out to my stubborness.
Thats it, Ive made a decision not to have a fag, and Ill keep trying to maker that decision. If I light up in six months, that isnt because of unpleasant withdrawals, its because I have 'failed' mentally.
Anyway, Im sorry if Im misunderstood on this thread, but its hard to make things come across how you want them to on a forum.
Really didn't take the time to read all the posts but my take is this..... withdrawals are not life threatening and after a certain amount time they are just mental but the first week is real. The big problem and the reason I think a lot of people say its so tough to quit is that when you do quit there's so many people around you doing it. If you quit doing cocaine, heroin or alcohol you can remove yourself from that group of people and you no longer exposed to it. I'm 42 and in my life time I've done all the drugs discussed here and more. I did them for a period of about 8 to 10 years and was able to stop without any problems at all. Smoking however was and is the hardiest thing I have ever had to do. I haven't had a smoke in 139 days but I still want one everyday and whether its physical or mental doesn't matter to me it still push's me to smoke again. Oh and quitting smoking used to give me some really bad fits of rage too so be ware of that. I wish you luck with your quit but consider everyone goes through different things when they quit. I'm happy for you if quitting smoking is easier for ya and hope you are successful.
Glad thats sorted, I still think it is easier to stop using drugs than it is to stop smoking! and I have just read a quitters site for class A drugs users and they think quitting smoking is harder than quitting drugs!
It is a truly Mad world and I wish sometimes there were 'Rehab' centres for us! I feel like booking myself in for a few weeks!
Well this is a passionate debate and one I would stay clear of however I have direct experience of heroin addicition and withdrawal, alcoholism and the cigs obvious or I wouldnt be here.
Two heroin addicts current on methadone I know very well are trying to stop smoking now. One has been successful using champix BUT had/has awful depression. The other is about to try champix but is dreading the quit. Both have said that they would rather quit heroin than cigs, that could be withdrawal from heroin is controlled by methadone and the withdrawal, whatever it is, will be fully felt when giving up cigs.
I have also known and lived with 4 alcoholics all off whom have battelled their deamons with varying success and varying symtoms. Two died very young not being able to give up alcohol and two are still battling thier deamons...they also still smoke and smoke in direct proportion to their alcohol consumption.
In my experience, to say giving up one addiction is easier than another is a sweeping statement and we all measure pain against our own life experince. So our perception of how easy/hard/painful something is true and correct for whoever is expereincing.
For the record...my bleeding gums lasted 2 months, ending with infections & gum boils and my gums receeding (due to stopping smoking) means I will loose most of my teath probably within the next 12 months. I've never suffered with depression as such, but standing at the side of the road ready to throw myself in front of a truck was a pretty scary place to be...and I am one of the upbeat ones on here. In the last 3 months on here I have seen complete dispair which I am sure was very real and very painful for those experiencing it.
This is a support forum for people who are trying to stop smoking. For most of us this is a hard hard road and probably the hardest thing (with a bit of luck) we will ever have to do in our lives.
I am trying patches this time, as I need help to get that mental edge. QUOTE]
Saying that smoking/nicotine is not addictive and then using nicontine patches to attempt to stop smoking is a complete contradiction and denial.
That mental edge the patches give you is called nicotine, which is feeding the addiction and preventing the withdrawl symptoms.
Seriously, if you do not believe that nicotine is physically addictive and does not cause withdrawl symptoms, then take off the patch and stop cold turkey. I did it and I did feel physical symptoms. As you said it did not kill me.
You state you keep failing to quit after several tries, but you beleive this has nothing to do with addiction to nicotine.
I think this statement you just made is very telling 'yes it is crap not to be able to enjoy a cigarette'.
That is a person who is suffering from nicotine addition. There is nothing to enjoy by inhaling hot smoke full of noxious chemicals into your lungs. It is only enjoyable to an addict. Addiction changes the mind.
To stop smoking forever and be happy about it, you have to stop being an addict. The very first step in ending addiction is to admit you are addicted. Eh?
Think about it.
see this link and many others at this site on addiction
Ok, can we all agree that Mr V is in the early stages of his quit.
He's trying out what's happening to his body and articulating what he is interpreting as happening to his body. I don't think he has intentionally meant to cause offense and time will tell if I'm being naive.
This is in danger of turning into a rugby scrum with people launching themselves at the the poor b*stard from all angles.
Everybody who has been quit longer than him needs to remember how bizarre the first steps are. Do we want to alienate people? Because that's in danger of happening.
He has stirred up debate and got up a lot of peoples noses, again he's in the early stages of his quit. His opinions may change as time goes on!
Ok, was not going to post on this thread but, I think this is the sort of thing the forum does well. We have a lot of different people with a lot of different opinions and everybody can "voice" them here without fear of bullying. Every single opinion has the same right as the next to be heard, we might not agree but again that is the joy of this forum.
We are all aiming for the same thing, a nicotine free life, how we get there, how hard/easy it is, how long it takes etc etc will vary from person to person and as long as we all take that into account this will remain a great place to help us all get to where we want to be.
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Non smoker / Ex smoker
My name is Mark and Im a nicotine addict
