CKD and Kidney Stones

[TopazForests]

I saw a gynourologist last week about my urinary incontinence and she ordered an u/s to check kidney function. She saw several kidney stones growing and sent me to see another urologist in her group about the kidney stones. She ordered a CT scan before I saw him. He said that he wanted an x-ray because that better showed the kidney stones. I had that done on Friday and will see him next Friday to see what he has learned.

As of now all these stones are in the kidney and none have left the kidney, there are stones of various sizes in both kidneys.

Has anyone else had kidney stones in the kidneys and CKD? Is there a connection? Will the kidney stones damage the kidney?

I have passed two kidney stones before, one in 1989 and one about 15 years ago. If you are going to pass kidney stones on a schedule, one ever 15 years isn't a bad gap, however; I would rather not have them or pass them.

[Darlenia]

Your situation intrigues me. Kidney stones are formed for a variety of reasons; those stones that are large can create blockages that may lead to kidney issues. Some people also have a genetic situation, such as those that fall in the primary hyperoxaluria (PH) diseases category. Those conditions can build up multiple stones inside the kidneys and can also produce kidney disease. So what do you have? The only people who can answer that will be your doctors. The waiting is hard. But I'm sure you'll know soon. I'm crossing my fingers that your situation is minor and the stones aren't giving your kidneys any issues filtering your blood. Preventative treatment may be available too to block stones from forming. (That was the case for my hubby who passed a stone many years ago.) If you can, let us know how it turns out. I suspect there are others here who may have an interest this subject too.

[TopazForests in reply to Darlenia]

I will let you know what is discovered. I will see the urologist next week to find out the results of the x-ray and what he thinks about the bloodwork results he will get from my primary care. Then I see the nephrologist for the first time on the 21st. It's going to be a long month of waiting for everything to come together.

[Nannie-C]

sorry to read about your kidney stones. Has your Dr checked your bloods for parathyroid glands disease (NOT thyroid)?

These tiny glands manage calcium within the body and when faulty, for several reasons they take too much calcium from the bones placing it in places it shouldn’t be. Kidney stones and bone loss/pain/fractures can be signs of end organ damage from this. Bloods samples for calcium, vit d and parathyroid all from same blood draw are needed to assess the relationship between them which is what leads to a diagnosis.

[TopazForests in reply to Nannie-C]

I have never heard of parathyroid gland disease, I will talk to the doctor about it. Some good news that has me thinking this might not be a problem is that my calcium level has been in the mid-range normal level for 2 years (from my online chart), I had a bone density test this summer (age related) and everything was normal, I've never had a broken bone, and my vitamin D is mid-range normal for the last 2 years. At the same time, I seem to have a full field of kidney stones growing. I will ask both the urologist and nephrologist about this.

[Nannie-C in reply to TopazForests]

I’m CKD 3b with raised parathyroid hormone but mid/upper normal range calcium. Normally calcium and parathyroid have a seesaw affect, one up one down and when that relationship is absent that is when there are problems., I’m being investigated currently for normocalcaemic hyperparathyroidism which is a variant of parathyroid disease. Currently some Drs still not aware of this or another type, normohormonal hyperparathyroidism (mid/upper normal parathyroid with raised calcium. There are several excellent web sites on this condition.

[TopazForests in reply to Nannie-C]

Nannie, what type of specialist treats this? I'm intrigued while at the same time am internally screaming "no, not another thing."

ETA: I checked my bloodwork and I have not had my PTH tested.

[Nannie-C in reply to TopazForests]

Most are referred to a endocrinologist but ultimately a surgeon who does at least 50 parathyroid surgeries annually. Removal is a simple operation in the hands of an experienced surgeon.

[seabreezegirl]

kidney stones can damage the kidney and fulther the disease .

The stones need to be analyzed for make up .

As there are differant kinds of stones.

Once you know the chemical make up the the doctore can tell you what to change in your diet so you stop makeing them .

Somtimes drinkinh lemon water could help . Depending upon type of stone .

[TopazForests in reply to seabreezegirl]

I had a kidney stone in 1989 that was too large to pass and was stuck between the kidney and "plumbing" to the bladder. That was before they could blast the stone. They took me into an operating room and were able to retrieve the stone. (I don't want to know how.) It was analyzed and the doctor said that it was made of the same type of calcium as you get from vegetables. He said to drink lots of water. Which I still do. I often add lemons. It was 15 years before I had another kidney stone and I passed that one without medical assistance. Now, about 15 years later with a newly diagnosis CKD, I seem to be growing them like a garden. The urologist said that if the stones appear on x-ray it will tell him more about the make up. Evidently, some kidney stones are made up of material that will not show up on x-ray and those can easily be dissolved. I will know more when I see him again next Friday.

[TopazForests]

No blood tests, although he is going to get the quarterly bloodwork results from my primary care. The kidney stones were discovered on ultrasound and then on a CT scan. He ordered x-rays and will talk about what all this means when I see him again next week.

[Marvin8]

Kidney stones tend to be genetic and I've had two in the past 20 or so years. Quite painful. Urologists and Nephrologists will tell you that they can damage the kidney nephrons as they pass through, but none can quantify how badly. As has been stated, the urologist will want to know if the stones are calcium oxalate or uric acid based and will prescribe dietary or drug treatments accordingly. Drinking a good amount of water in order to dilute the stone formation and avoiding the 5 Oxalate Bad Boys with the highest amount of oxalates is a good starting place, but again, the doctor will want to double check the stone composition. 80% are calcium oxalate. Be careful with dark leafy greens like spinach, chocolate, almonds, beets/beet juice, and soy. Good luck!

[TopazForests in reply to Marvin8]

None of my siblings or parents have had kidney stones, so who knows where my luck has come from.

[Marvin8 in reply to TopazForests]

Long term low grade dehydration can also cause it. That's what happened with me......plus my dad used to get them.

[NilsB]

Yes. I had bilateral kidney stones as well. CKD ban both cause and be the result of kidney stones. Kidney stones can cause scarring, impeding the flow of liquids in the kidneys. Also, CKD can reduce the flow of liquids, increasing the chance of kidney stones.

[TopazForests in reply to NilsB]

Gee, just what I wanted to hear. (jk) So kidney stones can cause CKD and CKD can cause kidney stones. That is just a terrible cycle.

What happened with your bilateral kidney stones? Did they just leave them? Or did they eventually pass? Did the docs blast them? Or surgically remove them? My thoughts were that this doc did not want to leave them there but he did not say that. He said that we'll talk on Friday.

[NilsB in reply to TopazForests]

I had bilateral lithotropsy treatments a month or two apart. Took me about a month to start peeing out stones.

[TopazForests]

**UPDATE** I saw the urologist today. The u/s and CT scan clearly show multiple kidney stones, the largest are 3mm on one side and 4mm on the other side. The kidney stones did not show up on an x-ray, which means they are made from Uric Acid. This means that they can be dissolved using Potassium Citrate. It all sounds nice until you add CKD into the mix, we need to avoid potassium. The urologist said that he wants me to talk to the nephrologist about this at my first visit next Wednesday. If she agrees, then he wants me to call his office and he or his PA will call in a prescription for me. Hopefully the nephrologist approves the use of the Potassium Citrate. The alternative is surgery to remove the stones.

[Darlenia in reply to TopazForests]

Thanks for the update! If your nephrologist agrees with your urologist, The Potassium Citrate would be a nice solution.

[TopazForests in reply to Darlenia]

Once again, I'll have to wait to update on the next step. I really don't want surgery, even though this would not involve incisions and scars, they go in through the bladder and to the kidney and then "blast" the stone. They can't do an external "blast" because the presumed make up is uric acid. I go back in 6 months for a CT scan to check what is happening to the stones.

It seems my retirement hobby is collecting new diagnoses and doctors. I really, really, really need a new hobby.

[Darlenia in reply to TopazForests]

Stay strong! Thankfully, it's the 21st century - modern medicine has evolved a lot! We're retired too, and finally things have settled down nicely for us after a wild two years. Keep the faith that your doctors will come through for you and you'll soon be working on those hobbies! Hugs!

[Shaneshaanderson28]

I had very large kidney stones in both kidneys about 10 years ago I was 17 .. I had to get them blasted .. i played with it wasn't following up like I was supposed too now im on dialysis at the age of 28 smh I wish I didnt play around with this thing but it is what it is im still living hope everything works out for you

[TopazForests]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I was lucky, the doctor believes that my kidney stones are made of uric acid and can be dissolved over time with Potassium Citrate. I am taking that twice a day and will go back for a check up in 6 months. Hopefully the kidney stones are gone.