Hi everyone, and Happy New Year! For about the last month, I have been experiencing High Heart Rates (HHR) that start, and within a minute or less, the HHR goes away. I have no problems during my walks or workouts. I have no symptoms. I begin to feel an increase, in pressure in my abdomen, and I can feel my heart rate increasing. MY HHR range between 120 to 150 BPM and usually lasts less than 30 to 40 seconds. However, twice, I have had multiple HHRs, as many as six within maybe two hours. My cardiologist thought I was experiencing sinus tachycardia. I have stage 4 chronic kidney disease, and I am already on carvedilol and amlodipine. The concern is that more medication will not help my HHR situation. I met with a Cardiac Electrophysiologist who is recommending an Ablation. I need to know what I should be looking for to help me better understand what's happening. Anyone else experiencing anything similar?
High Heart Rate: Hi everyone, and Happy New... - Kidney Disease
High Heart Rate
HI Marty,That's concerning. I am just wondering if you have high potassium also? I know when my potassium is up that I can feel something like afib. But it comes and goes with no regularity. And when my potassium is low, I do not get it at all.
Just wondering if there is a connection.
Thank you for your response Bassetmommer. Based on my most recent labs, my potassium is good. I have noticed that a couple of my HHR started about 30 minutes after a meal, but not always. I'm wondering if there might be a connection to food, digestion, etc. I had a colonoscopy and an endoscopy back in June, and everything was fine. I am careful watching what I eat because of my kidneys, but that doesn't mean something may have changed, causing a new problem. I will be checking in with my dietitian and primary care physician.
I too experience high heart rate when have high potassium.
I was wondering about potassium levels too. My cardiologist has mentioned that either too high it too low potassium levels can cause high and/or irregular heart rates.
Jayhawker
Hi MartyVA, I thought I would chime in because I have a condition (non kidney related) that can cause ventricular tachycardia. I have passed out a few times in my life, but I have never had a heart monitor on during those times to understand if my heart was actually in ventricular tachycardia or I just passed out for another reason. I’ve also had my heart once go up to about the 130s, I felt it in my chest and I also felt kind of unwell. I was put on a low dose beta blocker just in case. In My case, if the beta blocker didn’t work the dose would be increased and if that didn’t work another treatment option would have to be considered. But that has not happened to me yet.
Have you had an episode where your heart rhythm was caught on a heart monitor? Does your physician know what is causing the high heart rates? My thoughts are if your physician is recommending cardiac ablation, maybe you should get a second opinion if you are concerned that an ablation may not be the right treatment option. Otherwise make sure all your questions, and possible alternatives are discussed before proceeding. And ask if they are going to use any dyes that could hurt your kidneys if you go with the ablation.
From my understanding of my electrophysiologist, arrhythmia’s can come on suddenly and a “perfect storm” of things can set them off. He told me even a cold could maybe set mine off. But yours may be different. He wants me to put in an implantable heart monitor for the next 4 years but I’m not sure I can afford it. I still don’t know how serious my situation is, but I understand some arrhythmias can be very serious.
I’m not sure that is helpful but I wish you the best MartyVA and hope your doctors take good care of you!!!
Hi, Sarah_402, your response is helpful, and I will be seeking a second option before I go further. I have captured ECGs using my Apple watch, blood pressure, and heart rates on my BP monitor while experiencing HHRs. My cardiologist and Electrophysiology (EP) have seen and evaluated those ECG results and other data. My cardiologist thought, sinus tachycardia. The EP's thought was SVT because I had one HHR with rates over 150 BPM. I have also had EKGs, but none while the events were occurring. It's hard for me to accept the ablation because of my CKD. CKD can also cause irregularities in the heart, and perhaps my kidney functions are causing my current situation. I am looking into the food, digestive area that was also recommended in another response because there are times that food seems to be a factor. So many things to track, but I would hate to treat a symptom only to find out that the fix was something as simple as a chance diet or exercise. I walk and work out regularly so, a closer look at my diet is next, along with a talk with my primary care physician. Thanks, Sarah_402 I appreciate your time.
Hi MartyVA, It makes sense that it could be the chronic kidney disease. If so I guess the question is what is the risk if you don’t do the ablation and could medications be tried first? What is the risk if you do nothing? How serious is this? Those would be the questions I would want to know. And if it’s the kidney disease I talk to my nephrologist about the situation too.
I totally understand the dilemma of not knowing how serious something is and what one should do about it. I’m on the beta blocker to stop an dangerous arrhythmia that may or may not ever happen, but my kidney doctor says I should stop the beta blocker because of low blood pressure damaging my kidneys. So…? I guess I’m going to talk to both doctors and try and get a consensus.
Also a random thought, I had a friend that took some cold medicine and went into SVT. But if you don’t take cold medicines then that’s not helpful.
Let us know how you make out. Get all the information you need to make an informed decision and protect your health. I hope the solution is simple!
You are absolutely correct! Always look for heart problems in kidney disease. The heart is a muscle that pumps oxygen rich blood to organs including kidneys. If kidneys aren’t working then anemia can result due to erythropoietin deficit. Get the anemia treated & heart stress is reduced & the heart does not have to work as hard to circulate oxygen rich blood. Before ablation & other surgical intervention always seek a 2nd & 3rd opinion & a dietary consult & whole food plant based slant to the diet.
Sometimes, high heart rate may be due to reduced pumping power of heart. 2D echo would give better idea if that is the case.
Hi Ashok5085, my understanding is, my heart is in good condition. I am on a list for a kidney transplant and undergo an annual physical that is pretty thorough. I have a local cardiologist, and the transplant team also has a cardiologist who monitors the results of my annual physical and confers my local cardiologist. This past September, I had a cardiac catheterization to help understand an image that showed up on my chest X-ray during my annual physical. My local cardiologist performed the procedure, and my heart was strong and in good shape. However, given my situation with my kidney disease, I am not ruling anything.
Marty, i’d like to give this a try. What is your last Hg & iron panel readings?
I am anemic, but I don't have a current iron panel. Most of my blood work focuses on renal function. I'll ask my PCP or nephrologist about adding an iron panel. Thanks
You can add the Fe panel by having the doc calling the lab if you already had the draw or get a metabolic panel. If e. Coli suspected, get a urinalysis & culture, it will also reveal kidney data - protein , blood, lymphocytes etc. the stool sample should be subjected to 2 days of consecutive fecal occult iron tests to rule out GI bleeding causing anemia. Submit 2 stool samples to your Dr for 2 days. Do you take aspirin ? Exactly / B blocker is very efficient but better to find the cause & eliminate it so you don’t need a heavy b blocker dose but never reduce or stop a b blocker cold turkey or too fast! It took me a year to get off a b blocker because your beta cells increase in adaptation & then any reduction causes high HR. You should have your Hg & iron panel in 2 days. Get it faxed to you.
Thanks Bond-007, I will follow-up with PCP on the Fe panel. I already submitted a urine sample for urine analysis and culture with my urologist. Should see results in a few days. I do take a low dosage aspirin and I have been taking them since the early days. My carvedilol dosage had been reduced by half but my BP became a problem and the decision was to take me back to the full dosage after trying other meds to control my BP. My BP has been stable and controlled and I had not had any low heart rates for quite so time. I am hoping that once we get this anemia under control we can go back and revisit all of my medications and make adjustments.
Ok, what’s the dose/frequency of the aspirin? Why do you take it? Have you had any cardiac procedures or heart attack or stroke?
I take one 81 mg aspirin per day. The original reason I started taking the aspirin was based on the advice of my PCP. Back then the thinking was that aspirin helped prevent heart issues. I am aware of the current recommendations. When I’ve asked about taking the aspirins, I’ve been told they are safe for me. The only cardiac procedure I have had is a cardiac catheterization. No heart attacks or strokes. Thanks again.
OK, no heart attack or stroke. But why the cardiac catheterization? Did you get a stent or was any procedure given?
I am a candidate for a kidney transplant. My transplant program requires me to have an annual physical. During my last physical, "something strange" showed up following my stress. Because of my medications, I cannot do the standard treadmill stress test. Instead, I receive a cardiolite stress test to help simulate the treadmill exercise.After the cardiolite stress test, X-rays of my heart were taken, and one of those X-rays showed something that needed a closer look.
HG, iron panel and stool specimen results are on the way. I met with my PCP, yesterday and she suspects anemia or intestinal bacteria resulting from antibiotics I had taken for an E-Coli problem. I have already scheduled an appt with a new cardiologist for a second opinion.
I have not experienced my high heart rate issue in a few days. I am, however, seeing just the opposite. For the last two days, my resting heart rate has dropped below 50 BPM on a few occasions. I am waiting to hear back from my cardiologist on the low heart rate. I suspect it's related to my medication, carvedilol. Thank you.
OK, watch those beta blockers - they are very good at what they do - reducing heart rate. But if you can do other things to help your heart, over time, you can gradually reduce those beta blockers. Be careful - 50 is low and you do not want it too low - taper as instructed by your physician if need be and only if instructed by him to do so, and never cold turkey or too fast - moderation and slow change is the rule here. Reduce them too fast, and HR increases rapidly, so be very careful with this class of medication. titration is the key in reaction to hert rate and make sure you are just taking them for heart rate and not other cardiovascular reasons in which case you have to monitor those parameters as well. After a gradual taper I finally got off mine and only use it PRN. Now, the e. Coli is understood to affect mental state, be a cause of inflammation, and affect kidneys. Get rid of it. Anemia is the key. Get your Hg within a normal range and eliminate e. Coli and you should feel a major improvement and your internal organs will thank you for the extra oxygen from the improved Hg. Improve Hg to normal and your heart will thank you a bunch - won’t have to work as hard so you may not need as much of the beta blocker to slow it down further. Also, in anemia, that alone can lead to HR increase as the heart tries to increase output to meet organ demand for oxygen via red blood cells. Go over this dynamic and develop a plan to deal with HR, Beta blockers, and normalized Hg, as you may find you need less B blockers as anemia improves. Check thyroid function as excess thyroxin can accelerate heart rate as well so check TSH - thyroid stimulating hormone. This should give you a good starting point and you will be back in shape soon.
You should ask your Dr and if they think it is ok then try some relaxing methods like breathing exercise and walk more often. If the Heart rate is high when you wake up or during exercise then it is ok however if it is high even when you are resting then you may need more medicine to relax. I had high heart rates too 135 when not moving but it went back down to 60s and have been cleared from heart problems. I also walked a lot reduced caffeine and ate everything mindfully. I also stretch a lot breathe deeply no alcohol no drugs other then 1 for high BP I take krill oil and melatonin with some magnesium (ask your kidney Dr first) pro and prebiotics if I remember and ate more fiber and on low carb sugar free my kidney function increased back to stage 2 from almost stage 4 as well. So ask Dr what you can do but mostly move as much as you can and relax.
Sparlie88, I walk and work out regularly. I study Tai Chi, attend classes weekly and work out three days a week on my own. I do not have tachycardia during physical exertion. I have woken up at night, and I do not experience high hearts rates first thing in the morning. Funny, I could be sitting quietly and stand-up a one will start. I have had a couple that started about an hour after eating, but these are rare. Like you, I don't drink alcohol or consume anything with caffeine. I'm one of those who can't just sit still. Maybe that's what I need to do at this time.
Good for you and keep on doing that. I had that complain too and my Cardio Dr told me since I am super active having a high heart rate in the morning hours isn't something to worry about it is related to our body's way of waking us up. As for after eating our BP sink because of more blood needed for digestion. If you move suddenly your blood is needed in your brains. If the blood is busy your brain will signal your heart to pump more blood. But when you do not have enough blood your heart will pump faster. I am just describing in simple terms please ask your Dr for for details. So as long as you do not have other issues like dizziness chest pain shortness of breath heart burn you are ok for now. Just slow down was what I was advised take a long slow walk and deep breathes when you wake up and while walking you heart rate will go back down to 60s or 70s. The more oxygen you feed your body with your heart will not panic.
I truly hope you can find an explanation for your condition. Carefully check your labs for clues - it can be as simple as an electrolyte imbalance that can be fixed through diet. Or it can be something intrinsic to the heart or vascular system itself needing intervention. Perhaps there's a glandular problem that can be fixed also. And then there is the influence of the kidney and their behaviors. For example, my husband went into a-fib when he was given a transplant and his heart rate began spiking. His problem was fixed with medication which have since been largely removed. (Earlier his blood pressure and heart rate forced him into dialysis - his kidneys could no longer properly keep up with matters.) Although I'm a healthy person, I had a sodium/chloride deficiency which caused weird run-ups in heart rate which was fixed through diet. You're on the right track by working with your medical team to come to a consensus and a solution. It can be something simple or it could be something complex. Your nephrologist will let you know what he believes is your best recourse.
Hi Marty, Please get a second or third opinion before doing an ablation. That is serious surgery and can go wrong sometimes. I had a-fib that stayed in a high state for several months, even after getting a pacemaker. My cardiologist suggested a cardio conversion may work, and if that did not get me back into a normal rhythm, then ablation would be necessary. The cardio conversion was quick, outpatient and noninvasive. And it has worked ever since for a year. Not suggesting you have a-fib or anything like that, but just that ablation is serious and a second opinion would be worth a try. Best wishes to you.
Hi, I had strange things going on with my heart rate and it was a magnesium deficiency. I had no idea something seemingly so simple could have that effect. Hopefully your dr has checked that but might be worth a blood test if they haven’t. I also did a 24 hour heart monitor - the ekg was normal, but it showed on the 24 hour tracking. All the best with figuring the cause out!
I agree...a low magnesium level can cause alot of problems...and its a mineral that is not in alot of foods...always best to check with labs first, as you dont want too much either...I take the Magnesium Malate once a day...also helps with digestion and constipation
Hi MartyVA,
I'm a former paramedic and also used to work in a cardiology practice. Have you ever had a 24 hour Holter Moniter? It seems like that would be in order to be able to see when it's happening and record your heart rate and rhythm.
There are medications, and as crazy as it sounds sugar will set off AFib runs.
I don't know if you're dealing with T2D or not.
You want to get that controlled. AFib can put you at a higher rate of stroke.
Hi Sophiebun11, I have kidney disease, stage 4. No T2D. I was on Cifroflaxin about two months ago. Other than that, the meds I take I have been taking for years. We are again, looking into if my meds are still the best for me. I am careful with sugars, sodium, etc. I put myself on a strict diet and also work with a dietician. Lots of fruits, nuts, and veggies. Proteins mostly from fish and chicken. I have not had any monitors yet. My of the data has come from my Apple Watch and various apps. The ECGs have been the most useful, and I also monitor my blood pressure and heart rate and document the results. I am looking into a second opinion.
A second opinion is always a good idea, and any good physician will not be insulted if you seek one. Many Drs. even suggest it in cases when they are stumped.
I'm happy you have a handle on your diet. Sometimes long-term meds do need switching out as your body no long reacts the same to them or gets "acclimated" to them.
Best of luck to you.
🐇
Is this covid shot related by chance. I have read where this has happened as a side effect?
Pretty sure this is not Covid related.
My mom and neice had this issue, but it didn't just appear. Both had had it since childhood. My neice had part of her heart deadened at Mayo. My mom took a pill occasionally but not sure what it was. Her's got worse when she was on chemo for stomach cancer, but by then that was the least of her problems. My neice has been fine since the procedure. She had it in her mid 20s and she is now pushing 40 with one kid and another on the way. For yours to just appear might be a medication issue or anxiety. But you better check it out.
Hi MartyVA,
After you get a second (and 3rd) opinion, please post your results.
If it's Tachycardia, I have had that for 15 years before my ablation 10 years ago. That I can share my experiences.
I don't want to stress you more by providing ifs and assuming.
Many have suggested advise to get at least a second opinion and full tests. I believe that is the best non-stressful advice we can give.
Hi Okiksaint1955, This is all new to me. I will be getting a second opinion, and plan to each of the members of my care team before any final decision, is made. I am trying not to let the tachycardia events stop me from doing my normal actives. I know when these events are happening, and so far, they are not related to exertion or physical activities. Trying to figure out when stopping is the right thing to do, versus just being afraid to do anything.
I have lived with tachycardia for 15 years - ablation was not a viable option yet. Medicine helped control. I live with it - actually run marathons until I was 60 (am now 66). Ablation (10 years ago) was an outpatient. I was half awake responding to the doctors. 2 months later, I was cleared for my next marathon.
So - don't stress about it. I can only imagine how ablation has progressed in the last 10 years.
Good luck. Hope this helps
So far it looks like medication is not an option for me. I am on Carvedilol and Amlodipine my resting heart rate is right around 50 BPM, often below 50 BPM. The fear is that any additional medication will lower my heart rate too much. I am waiting to hear from a new cardiologist for a second opinion.
My medication then is not to lower HR but to regulate it. Anyways, better get the 2nd opinion before we diagnose this erroneously. Leave it to the experts.
Good luck. Take care.
Marty, i think you should get a CBC & metabolic panel as you could have anemia causing your heart rate to increase to meet the oxygen demands of your organs. Give lab results to a good internist. Check Hg & iron panel values. Stage 4 is not a death sentence- you can remain stable at this for a decade or more & consider seeing a kidney Dr & dietitian to consider a whole food plant based diet & avoiding animal proteins. What’s your GFR?
Have you been screened for a pulmonary aneurism?
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