This nephrologist is REALLY fabulous regarding explaining why we should stick with plants. He even has the percentage increases of GFR if one does not.
Need a reason to eat Plant Based and elimin... - Kidney Disease
Need a reason to eat Plant Based and eliminate all MEAT?
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RoxanneKidney
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youtube.com/watch?v=-pD47XP... Praise GOD!! The optimal amount of coffee is two to three cups per day...even with decaf.
:). Decaf. Like opening a beautifully wrapped present only to find nothing inside.
Useless stuff, I agree
You know how many time I thought that I was drinking too much coffee when it was probably saving my life all along hahahaha
We really ought to have a thread containing really useful info like this. The (very) low protein diet thread or some such. Pity this isn't a standard discussion forum site where all the important info can be stickies up to. There's a lot of need for repetition..
We get the information, but believing it is another thing. I like the way this guy presented it. Even changed my mind on those protein supplements because I need very low protein but have a hard time maintaining weight...and wanting sweets.
Yeah, getting those calories on board is tough enough on a low protein diet. But it is doable, just takes constant eating 
Don't see the harm in some sweets either. Not as a structural way to get cars but certainly I wouldn't run from sweets
Sugar equals inflation. And if leaking protein we got inflammation
Really good video - this nephrologist packs a lot into a small space and lays out the groundwork brilliantly. Great presentation and entertaining with it.
Interesting what he says on water (I.e. no need to drink gallons of the stuff.)
Too many dietitians behind the times. Even general practitioner s. Mine didn't even tell me to stop with salt, low protein etc. Nothing. And the dietian didn't even look at my labs. And I paid for that when I should have just went to YouTube. SMH.
It's actually shocking how little info was given out. 7 years without anyone saying much to me.
Now I should have known better. I wasn't born yesterday and had absolutely no reason to suppose that the world would operate ideally / optimally regarding my CKD. Like, the world doesn't operate ideally / optimally in any area!
To be fair, it suited me not to have to intervene. It meant I could ignore things. Humans have a propensity to ignore things they don't like afterall.
Did you listen to how much fiber was should be getting...way more than I am getting with supplements. Dang. Oh well.
Missed that. How.much? I'm on about 30gr day on average
I took notes☺️ Dr Hashmi suggested 30 - 40 G of fiber, while noting our ancestors took in around 100G. As I found out through experience, increase fiber gradually as it can really clog you up.
Good point. A lot less processed foods back then. I remember reading about how the microwave helped propetuate this drastic increase of processed junk.
He'll yeah.
We're not a bad in Ireland yet .. but we're getting there.
The amount of convenience pop-in-oven/microwave then turn on the telly has ballooned in recent years.
Some of it is quite tasty but laden with fat and salt (which might be why it's tasty)
The US has a lot to answer for..
Thanks. I wonder would it be size related. 30gr for smaller people and 40 for large?
The trouble about out ancestors (as Lee Hull points out) is that they didn't live very long for all their (insert whatever it was they did and ate).
One could say, based on our ancestors life expectancy, that there is a correlation between a high fibre diet and early death.
Just sayin'
Good point. Maybe it only helps reproduction, lol.
Yes, interesting, as I have also read that too much water puts stress on the kidneys, and drinking very small quantities, i.e. a few sips, frequently throughout the day is preferable to a large glass every so often. I, too, am always cheered when coffee is touted as a possible life-saver!!😁
Water intake is 2nd only to "which is the real God (which includes there being no god)": complete confusion and a zillion options to chose from.
I read somewhere authorative sounding last night that 3.7litres was the right amount for a male. 20% of that comes with food but the rest by way of liquid.
I struggle to get a litre and a half of the horrid stuff down a day
coffee counts. So I'm good.
Be careful with coffee (if caffeinated) as I am sure you know…since this seems as it was in jest. Just a reminder from someone who had 2 heat strokes in the Army, caffeine is a diuretic and will dehydrate you no matter the amount you drink. So be sure to replace the liquid. Dehydration isn’t good for us, any kind of heat injury can cause AKI in any one f us. Not as much of a problem as we enter the cooler months and for those of you not in the Deep South of the USA…lol! Never know though with climate change!
good point. Evertthing in moderation, except any tasty good stuff, then none of that lol
I really think you and a few others would benefit from reading the NKF updated dietary guidelines in the KDOQI Clinical Practice guidelines for physicians. I’ve read it and many of the questions you few discuss (and me too!) are addressed in that update. I will post the link but only if you want me to. It is 117 pages of SMALL PRINT! Lol! Let me know! I still eat taste good stuff but only once a quarter!
I'll check it out...never heard of KDOQI???? is it Keto?
Reading it now! Thanks!
Just to be sure there is a condensed version and the full version. Here is the link to the full version:
ajkd.org/article/S0272-6386...
May be the same you already scanned but I am still reading the report.
Contradictory in some ways to the report link I shared with Skeptix a week or so ago. I’ll give that link below again if interested:
emedicine.medscape.com/arti...
Again written as guidelines for physicians. I linked the diet section but you can read the entire article with the contents at the bottom of the page.
I had a short version.
I thought maybe unless you were a speed reader lol! Sorry if I made “work” for you. We may be splitting hairs you know?
That medscape one is as clear as mud. Treat just about everyone with statins .. but why? Potassium/phospate/salt restriction for CKD. CKD 1? 2? 3? Why restrict potassium if your kidneys are happily clearing potassium?
In the iconic words of Ed McMahon (The Tonight Show’s announcer for Johnny Carson…for those of you across the Pond)…”You are (correct) COORRREECCTT, SIR!”
One wonders why the Kid-o-key sums up a sVLPD as probably beneficial in staving off dialysis. But gives the recommendation a 1A (triple AAA) grade.
1A grading roughly translates to 'its a no brainer'
Pronounced Kid-o-key by my RD. As in Kidokey Dokey
I was a smoker on and off. I was 'on' at the start of covid where some French data came out noticing the dearth of smokers turning up in hospital - it was the non smokers who were ending up there.
I took great cheer from that. At last a reason to keep smoking.
I've since taken my head out of.my rear end and now that I'm facing CKD head on smoking won't be coming back.
I know, right! I just need one vice that's food related, don't I? But I can smoke weed, I guess. Although since I am going to be healthy, I might as well go all the way.
Hey man,
See my reply to Roxanne about the KDOQI above if you want the link let me know. It’ll help I think but like many other particulars about our wonderful affliction, much of the recommendation s are best practices and many studies cited contradict. There seem to be no “hard facts” or “constants” to the diagnosis or management of CKD…so as I do more research and learn more and more I become further confused…Lol!
Might be a case of SNAP going on here. I was only today starting to trudge my way through the guidelines.
My renal dietician expressed something of a turnaround recently, back tracking from the idea of my sVLPD. They said the the KDOQI was somewhat controversial in the CKD world. So I figured I'd better find out for myself.
The guidelines for stage 3-5 sVLPD diets (non diabetics) attracts a 1A rating, arrived at through 'best practice' methods of determining the robustness of the data leading to the guideline.
But I share your view/frustration. This is not easy.and it's not clear cut, even for the docs. We're lay people attempting, forced to attempt rather, to act as our own medics.
Still, we see through a glass darkly. The image is fuzzy but at least there is one. We have bloods which give us some way to steer. It might feel like the steering column is made of chewing gum but thems the breaks!
Great! I thought of you many times reading the protein restriction, seems you are spot on, and then the “types of protein” where, and I paraphrase, “benefits of a plant based diet versus animal protein showed no benefit in CKD 3-5 non diabetes in studies 2-5 years out but may show some benefit in slowing progression on CKD in 11-15 years.”
What they are saying contradicts other studies read, like the last link I shared, but they have the medical studies to back their statements as well. So the way we get diagnosed is only “within 30% of being 80-90% accurate measure of GFR” with the UCAR being just as inaccurate and the clinical guidelines in MedScape versus KDOQI for PHYSICIANS contradictory. Maybe not on the high points but I was an engineer major and an engineer before I came to my senses and switched careers. I need “constants” like in math, thermodynamics, or physics. Would be much less frustrating and would probably save lives if the info on how to persevere our remaining kidney function were clear. As it is I am almost discouraged from more research if it continues to be clear as mud…lol!
You see people here with only creatinine issues. Others with a host of bloods out of range. Some potassium restriction, others not. Some itching and retaining fluid. Others having no symptoms.
Then there are the study themselves measuring different things, overlapping things. Study run well, and run not so well.
I read a Cochrane Library piece today saying no benefit in a low protein diet vs non protein restricted. That supposedly the dogs cabanas, a Cochrane.
But I'm happy enough to steer with a chewing gum steering system. Thankful that I wasn't facing this 20 years ago with KDOQI 2000 and no Cronometer app to track myself.
"Life's a piece of shit, when you look at it. But always look on the bright side of life"
S'wot I says!
Your attitude is terrific and mostly I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I generally have the same attitude and there are some constants with our disease. One is that depression and anxiety will make all CKD outcomes worse. So maybe that is a key we can hold onto in the flux of somewhat contradictory information! I always find when I get down some that God puts someone or something in my path, almost immediately, who shows me how much worse it could be for me!
I just read the study or recommendations. The meat industry has a powerful lobby. I don't believe that the finding regarding plants possibly being no better than meat, then they contradict themselves in another area saying that eating more fruits and veggies lowers the BUN. Screw them. You can't have your meat and eat it too. At least 1/2 of it is filled with "opinions".
God might behind most of my attitude - although I tend to have a "buckle up and get on with it" kind of approach anyway. I make for a good patient.
Like, I know where I'm going when I die so death can fuck off with itself. This is mainly about wife n' kid and the desire to be able to run around with both of 'em for years to come rather than being hooked up to an ill health machine.
I find this whole CKD business rather fascinating. You meet interesting folk (present company included). A mechanical engineer could hardly be disinterested in a puzzle to try solve, could he? And this machine is the most interesting of 'em all. Is that God opening a door? Well I don't suppose him the Celestial Puppet Master but in the way He opens things,.. why not?
Thank you for posting this video RoxanneKidney!! This was so informative, and I must say, it sounds so logical. I’ve known for years really, that plant-based was a better way to go, but felt I had to give it up because of my diabetes. Tofu is going to be big on my shopping list instead of eggs from now on. And I’m making other changes as well. I think also, the trick is as Skeptix also says, lower portions. This has been my failure for many years. This was a big help in my understanding of the needs of us CKD patients. Thank you so much, once again! God bless. 😊👍👍🙏
Just remember that firm tofu has more protein in it than soft does. And you still need to stick to protion sizes. The protein that you eat have very little effect on the surem levels, and you still need to limit your portion size becuase those molecules are big and will bang on your kidneys and damage them.
Skepticx didn't quite say smaller portions. Sceptix probably said something more like ' track your (plant) protein intake on Cronometer so that your don't blow your protein budget.
I didn't realize that garlic had protein in it!! One clove has 0.2 grams...My breath will not smell like metal. I'll blow my budget on it.
OMGosh RoxanneKidney, Thank you for this! It is the best presentation/information I have heard that I totally understand and can actually put into use with confidence. I am now on the hunt for more from this nephro.
Thanks for posting this, Roxanne. Now find one with the same good cheer about wine. So many kidney sites ban or warn against all sorts of food, so this was manna from heaven.
It is so INDIVIDUALIZED. That is where all the confussion comes in.
Thank you for this very informative video.
Thanks Roxanne!! Good video
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