Cadence

[Tasha99]

I am tall at 5’10” and have a low cadence of around 155-160. If I try to increase it, I do seem to go faster more easily than just simply trying to run faster which I guess is just by extending my stride? But it feels so unnatural to increase my cadence. Even though it’s an easier way of going faster, unless I’m concentrating, I just can’t maintain it andI slip back into longer strides. Has anyone really tried to increase their cadence over time and has it become more natural? I’m not even sure this post made sense but it does to me. I wish I were shorter and had a shorter stride and faster cadence. 🤔🤣

[Hidden]

It's not just me 👍 pheweeee, I often feel I'm running with a short stride pattern Tasha, and it feels faster for me to run with a lengthier stride, but it requires so much thinking 😳

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Hidden]

But shorter faster stride is better to go faster? But to do that I have to concentrate. I think if I go faster I do a longer stride but with a shorter stride I can do a higher turnover. But that’s unnatural 🤔 I’m not sure I’m making any sense 🤣

[Hidden in reply to Tasha99]

Omg I Sense a sleepless 🤯 night ahead cadence turmoil!

If I think about my cadence as I'm running, I worry I'm getting far to analytical 😬, but shorter faster leg strides are definitely faster 👍

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Hidden]

🤣

[Hidden in reply to Tasha99]

I thought I was befuddled enough after reading ( see pic) even contemplating booking a full gait analysis, with a physio where they analyze your biometrics etc

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Hidden]

I had a biomechanical assessment last week 🤣

[Hidden in reply to Tasha99]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh tell me more 👂👂

[linda9389 Administrator Marathon in reply to Tasha99]

How was that Tasha?

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to linda9389]

Well I guess I’ve always been concerned that I run in a very poor fashion with terrible form. Having signed up for another marathon, I thought it would be best to check that I am wearing the right kind of shoes etc etc. Also, I wondered if I could get orthotics insoles so that I could buy neutral shoes. The guy I saw was incredibly knowledgeable and was actually the chief exec or something of the podiatry society or something very impressive. He drew lines on my heels and had me run and walk barefoot and in shoes across some very expensive piece of equipment which sent scans of pressure over my foot to a laptop. Anyway apparently i don’t heel strike, which I thought I did. He also said I don’t need orthotics as the shoes I wear seem to be working perfectly well for me. I do need support shoes. If I get any niggles, I can get orthotics and buy neutral shoes but he didn’t see the point.

[Instructor57]

I'm 2 inches shorter than you and when I first tried to run slowly I found initially I just kept the same cadence and stride length and of course found it really difficult, in fact almost impossible.

After quite a bit if practice I can now usually increase my cadence and reduce stride length .

I guess ultimately if you continue to do that you would end up running on the spot and covering no ground 😂

[Jericho2332 Half Marathon]

I run short and fast I think, average cadence was 172 today so I'm guessing I average between 170 and 180 most runs (I only found this out today 🤣) I'd have to see myself running though to see how short my stride is 🤔

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Jericho2332]

That’s good! 180 is optimal apparently but much harder to do if you’re tall!

[Jericho2332 Half Marathon in reply to Tasha99]

I'm only 5'9" so being tall not a problem for me 🤣

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Jericho2332]

I’m only an inch taller than you though. Weird. I do have long legs though.

[Sandraj39 Half Marathon]

This is such a good question Tasha! We are pretty much the same height and although my cadence is higher (av around 165/167 on a ‘faster’ run, I think) I feel just the same as you when I try to increase it - it takes a lot of concentration and I find it difficult to sustain! I had never really thought that this was due to my being tall but maybe it is a factor?🤷‍♀️ Look forward to reading some of the replies...🙂

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Sandraj39]

It definitely is! I do find it easier to go faster with a shorter stride but naturally I wouldn’t do this to do a sprint. It’s annoying! Short people are definitely faster! Just checked. On my faster runs I seem to go around 167. I’m generally plodding with low heart rate training though 🤣

[SueAppleRun 10 Miles]

I’m a lot shorter so naturally shorter steps but a long time ago i read somewhere to keep my steps short just speed up the legs until i couldn’t speed them up any more and then increase length, well i did that and I’m slow anyway but speed up to run round people and my legs are definitely stronger for all the little steps

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to SueAppleRun]

Little legs rule running!

[mrrun Ultramarathon in reply to Tasha99]

This is about body mechanics, not height. Look at Usain Bolt at 6.5'. There are a bunch of guys who run marathons in 2.30-3.00 hours and who are in a similar height category (I know one guy, he's 6.4'). I'm 6.1' and have improved my cadence by practicing interval and tempo runs - today I spent a good part of 5x400 intervals at around 170. That, at my age (56) gives me a 5K time of just under 25mins. Hardly groundbreaking, people do it under 20mins and are older than me but 4 years ago I could just nick it under 30mins so I'll take that. Practice running fast, push your cardio training up a bit. Easy? Nope. Feeling sick sometimes? Oh god, yes. Any other way of increasing it? Erm, no... 😉

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to mrrun]

I do do faster tempo and speed sessions. Usually follow the 80/20 rule. My question isn’t about how to go faster it’s about which is the best way of going faster - naturally or increasing cadence. What I’m saying is that it’s easier to go faster with increased cadence. But that feels unnatural to me. My stride is 110cm in running fast. Yesterday I tried to increase cadence instead. Which I do try to do. It just doesn’t feel right right though but it is easier on the body?

[Sandie1961 Half Marathon]

Looking back I seem to average about 170 (at 5’ 6”). I have tried lengthening my stride but it exhausts me and makes my hips hurt so I tend to just slip back into what feels more natural

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Sandie1961]

Lengthening stride isn’t the right way to go faster. Try smaller faster strides. It’s easier than lengthening stride but feels completely unnatural for me.

[linda9389 Administrator Marathon in reply to Tasha99]

Interesting. When I run faster I feel as if my legs stride forwards and attack or eat up the distance, whereas at a more normal pace I feel I'm almost prancing on tippytoes. Stats show my casebce increases, but maybe the feeling that I've lengthened my stride is just in my imagination.

[Sandie1961 Half Marathon in reply to Tasha99]

I feel as though I take really short strides and any videos of me running seem to confirm that. I thought that I would cover more ground if I lengthened my stride, but it just doesn’t work for me!

[Cmoi Marathon]

Interesting pointTasha99 I'm 5 foot-nothing, and even for my height my legs are short.

Don't know what my cadence is, as I've still not got a running watch. Suspect it's quite high though - thinking back to when I tried one of the post-C25K podcasts that was supposed to help you increase your cadence, it was too slow for me and I absolutely hated it.

Although I do slow down going uphill, I don't shorten my stride that much, as I already take weeny steps. I find I can normally only lengthen stride once I've been running a few km, and unsurprisingly I need to be on a flattish or gentle downhill stretch of road or track. For my branch-strewn muddy forest paths it's out of the question!

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Cmoi]

You’re lucky then!

[Cmoi Marathon in reply to Tasha99]

Yeah but I still can't reach stuff on the top shelf at a supermarket! 🔝⛔🤣

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Cmoi]

I get asked to reach things for people 🤣

[Cmoi Marathon in reply to Tasha99]

Yup, I sometimes ask proper-sized people to reach things down for me! Though I quite often climb onto lower shelves, or use one packet of stuff to manoeuvre another down.

I also swing coathangers to get at clothes. I don't understand why it's so often the small-sized things that are put higher up, and larger sizes lower down. I mean, I know that there's no reason why a size 8-10 woman can't be 5ft 10, and a size 16-18 one 5ft-nothing, but that layout still seems illogical to me.

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Cmoi]

🤣

[linda9389 Administrator Marathon]

I naturally run at around 170-175. Like you, attempting to change it in any way feels unnatural. It is naturally higher when I'm running faster, lower when I'm plodding along. I'm leaving well alone 😀

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to linda9389]

Probably wise

[Beachcomber66 Administrator Half Marathon]

Makes perfect sense.

I did some work on this after my runners’ knee problem. I am about the same height as you (last time I measured it; age reduces height!) My stride length when I tried to run quickly got up to 1.14m; so I decided to deliberately shorten stride and increase cadence to try to avoid further knee injury. The best result for this came around last year’s vitality when I ran a 63 minute time (near pb for me) with cadence of 158 spm average and a high of 166 spm . That was on a fairly flat run so no hill complications. My average stride length was down to 1m which was a pretty big stride length reduction for that pace. I think that I have now learned this new stride length and keep it short automatically...so I automatically increase spm if I want to go faster these days. Nowhere near the spm of many others, but (shorter quicker) steps in the right direction I feel.

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Beachcomber66]

Yes I think it feels easier on my body to increase spm to go faster. I think I should work on this too. Cheers BC

[Curlygurly2 Half Marathon]

I'm 5"10 too, and have a far lower cadence than you Tasha, about 145...I have a short stride length too, and even shorter since I tried the HR zone training. If you want to increase cadence why not try a fixed cadence podcast, you run to the beat, and increase by a couple of BPM per week. Podrunner is good if you can get on with the music, I use them quite a lot. A metronome would work too, but probably drive you bonkers...

I watched a video the other day that explained if you lift your knees you will get a longer stride length at the same cadence....

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Curlygurly2]

Thank you! I’ll look into it. I’d love to be one of those runners where you see the full soles of their shoes when they run as they lift their legs so much. I think I shuffle along 🤣

[Curlygurly2 Half Marathon]

Another point I see no one has mentioned is ground contact time, the lower your cadence the more time your feet will stay in contact with the ground, and slow you down. Apparently we should aim for under 300 milliseconds the elites have 220 or thereabouts.

The knees thing is more pulling your leg up into a sort of z shape, so you get a big angle at the hip, knee and ankle, I suspect I run with straight legs!

[Madge50 Marathon]

I’m a long person too, and I do seem to have a cadence of 170 - 180, I have over time just thought about taking little steps and it seems to have stuck? Apparently my average stride length is 0.8m measured by my magic wrist watch.....🤷‍♀️......I have increased in speed slightly, again over time, but I’m with you on being envious of shorter people, closer to the ground etc., etc.,

I don’t tend to look at the numbers much, but try to run ‘tall’ .....

Mx

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Madge50]

That’s a great cadence! Your stride is much shorter than mine too. I might play with this 👍🏽

Just checked my stride. It’s usually 90-93cm on a steady run but on a fast run it was 111cm!

[Madge50 Marathon in reply to Tasha99]

Yes, that was this mornings run and I was trying to concentrate on going slow? - not that I’m ever ‘fast’ 😂......I am quite long in the leg too, e.g I have to by ‘long’ jeans.....regular aren’t long enough....

Mx

[WeavingWonk in reply to Tasha99]

I'm 6' with disproportionately long legs. My cadence is about 175 and my stride length 77cm on average. I tried to increase my stride length and just got hurt- it's definitely not the way to go. I'm slow but I think that's more to do with leg strength. It stands to reason that if my leg muscles were stronger then I would be propelled further when pushing off. My stride has increased from about 69cm when I started running, but my form hasn't changed, so it has to be strength (although that's all gone to hell with a bout of synovitis in early January that means I haven't run in 2 months).

As far as cadence is concerned, can toy slowly increase the beats per minute of the music you listen to and run in time to it? There's an NHS stepping stones podcast for improving cadence as w3ll.

[SkiMonday Ultramarathon]

I've found that increasing cadence does speed me up. The only way I've found of maintaining it though is by using a metronome app. I've tried downloading a few playlists but the bpm varies too much between tracks. I think the only option there would be to make my own playlist.

I've had some success trying to maintain pace by imagining taking tiny steps.

For what it's worth, I'm 5'11" with a stride length around 1m and my usual cadence is around 157.

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to SkiMonday]

Oooh were almost like twins 🤣

It just feels unnatural to increase cadence. I wonder if it ever starts to feel neutral.

[SkiMonday Ultramarathon]

🤣on running stats, maybe but I think most people would be able to spot the difference!

Maybe higher cadence comes with lots of practice. I think my tiny steps help a bit (when I remember to do it). I can tolerate a metronome for the occasional 5k but I'm not using it for anything longer! One of these days, I might get around to producing a playlist.

[nowster Metric Marathon]

6ft tall here, natural cadence about 160 spm, stride length about 90cm. Sprint cadence 170, sprint stride length 100cm.

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to nowster]

Hmmm. My sprint stride is 110+. Definitely need to work on cadence 👍🏽

[nowster Metric Marathon in reply to Tasha99]

Me or you or both of us? 🤣

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to nowster]

Me! You’re taller but have a shorter stride and higher cadence 👍🏽

[Jennyhare]

Getting cadence right seems to be a challenge for everyone. If you ever try pushing it up to the golden 180 the turnover feels crazy fast. I was glad to learn 160 is enough (although higher is probably better). There's no doubt that a higher cadence does wonders for your running and it has helped me a lot.

I was born with a club foot, have one leg longer than the other and have an inch and half difference in my foot sizes. A long stridey run real brought out these issues whereas a high cadence closes the gaps in my strange asymmetrical body.

I think a high cadence is a bit like that other counterintuitive thing required of distance runners; running slower in order to run faster. You just have to force yourself until it becomes the "new natural".

I use a metronome. Very hard at first, but ok now. I'm only an inch shorter than you so not exactly small either. Also it's worth bearing in mind that it's no different for chaps who are generally a lot taller.

[Tasha99 Marathon in reply to Jennyhare]

Thank you for your reply 😊