Race pace?? - HM compared to M

[Bazza1234]

I have done 3 HM's in the past few years and used my frequent parkrun 5K times as a guide to what my race pace and training paces "could" be. I used a number of online calculators to provide this information, averaged them out and basically trained and ran the HM's successfully. I used to do my longruns up to 20K or so at slower than race pace every second week and in between I would do shorter runs up to about 1/2 the length of the previous weeks longrun at race pace. BUT - this training for the full M has me a bit stumped!!! The calculators are telling me ( based on my fairly consistent 5k parkrun times) that I can do a M at x mins perk pace and that I should do the longruns at a slower y mins per k. I have been doing this and can easily run the suggested race pace over shortish distances but really have no idea whether I could do it over the full 42.2K. For the HM it was fairly easy to run say 10K at the suggested race pace and then ponder as to whether i could run it over 21.1K - but for this 42.2 K distance, I am in totally uncharted waters. Being my first marathon I had decided to just run my slow longrun pace this first time and just get the t-shirt for the distance. Basically intending to deliberately squeeze into the cutoff time - even if I " could" have done better. But I have been a bit thrown by the reports coming out of the London marathon where people are complaining about the course being ripped up and water stations abandoned for those who were way at the back but within the cutoff time. So am thinking maybe I am risking failure if I run too close to that cutoff time and maybe should attempt to run my "recommended " race pace???? These full marathon longruns are only done every 2 weeks and they take up so much time it is difficult to "experiment" and assess things.

[Whatsapp Half Marathon]

Bazza, if its your first Marathon then a PB is guaranteed. However, if I was you I would go with what feels right. I have stopped pacing my long runs now and just run by feel. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised and others a bit miffed.

However, I just run to how I feel. I did one 10k last year where I was on track to smash my PB each week in training, but I held back to save it for the day. On the day it was hotter than hell. I missed my PB opportunity. However, a few months later I was offered a place in a 10k at a weeks notice without time to train specifically and smashed my PB then. As you say with these events there is a lot of build up. And I can see how frustrating it must be for professionals who just need to get the right performance on the day, hoping that its a good day.

[Bazza1234 Marathon in reply to Whatsapp]

I hear what you are saying. Problem for me is that I have discovered that the marathon is indeed a different kettle of fish - and most everything else that I have discovered about running doesn't necessarily apply to this distance. Running by "feel" is OK for shorter distances - but I don't know how I will feel over 42.2 I have been basically running at a "calculated" pace ( minimum required to finish within cutoff) and trying to see how long I can hold that pace for It is actually slower than what the calculators tell me I could possibly do based on previous 5K and 10K times.

[Whatsapp Half Marathon in reply to Bazza1234]

Pace calculators are good toys. But they are not an exact science. Too many factors ignored. They are a good aspirational figure perhaps. When I say run by feel, I mean start off with the game plan you have been running to all this time and if a few miles in you 'feel' good then maybe push on a bit more. But don't necessarily be blindsided into changing well laid plans now by the enticing figures the calculators offer you.

[roseabi Ultramarathon in reply to Bazza1234]

You are right - you can't know what it will be like to run the marathon until you've run it. Your likely best pacing strategy is to start off super slow (to avoid rushing off too fast) and then stick to a comfortable pace, so maybe practice negative splits on your long runs.

A very good way of training to endure over a very long distance is to practice "pick ups" during your runs by mixing in some faster intervals. This can be done during your shorter runs (or during the long run if you wish) which is convenient as well as being highly beneficial Switching paces around also helps you learn to run by feel. Don't get hung up on your long run, it's only a portion of your training.

And please don't let the reports from the London Marathon worry you! Urban marathons that operate road closures do unfortunately have to have a cut off time, and the people nearer the back will be asked to move to the pavement after a certain time, but the LM story has drawn a lot of attention to this issue, so it is likely to lead to improvements. You can check with your event organisers to find out what their procedures are for this, plan for it, and set your mind at rest. It's far better to do as Whatsapp suggests and take your marathon as it comes - also enjoy the experience!

[marco83 Marathon]

You can use heart beat monitor if you have one... do you? If not running by feeling the second half is a good option .... Go slow enough in the first half

[marco83 Marathon in reply to marco83]

Just to complete the discussion oh heart beat monitor:

Zone 1: 60 to 70 %; very comfortable effort; use this for warmup and cooldown

Zone 2: 70 to 80 %; comfortable enough to hold a conversation; most training is done here

Zone 3: 81 to 93%; “comfortably hard” effort; you may be able to say short, broken sentences.

Zone 4: 94 to 100%; hard effort; the pace is sustainable, but conversation is a few words at a time. For most people this is around 5-K pace.

Indicative Heart rate per Race Distance:

5-K 95-97% of max heart beat (consider what you have in a fast rep.)

10-K 92-94%

Half-marathon 85-88%

Marathon 80-85%

[Macmac Marathon]

All fair points above. Going back to your target M pace, I would have thought basing this on your HMs would be better than short 5ks. My club suggest doubling HM and add 20-30 mins, so this may give some idea?

[Bazza1234 Marathon in reply to Macmac]

Unfortunately my last and best HM was 2 years ago - I have a "recent" 5k, 10k and 15K to go on and they are all consistent with each other.

[Macmac Marathon in reply to Bazza1234]

Ah ok. Well 15k is not that far off HM, so you could plug that into a calculator. There is no exact science though, so maybe use your long slow run as a starting point and if you feel like it you can always up the pace a bit, but as long as you are aiming to finish inside the cutoff that’s probably all you need as a target? I’m doing my first Marathon in October and would like to finish comfortably and not worry much about time. But it is difficult as I always have some kind of target in my head.. so I appreciate what you are pondering 🙂

[Tasha99 Marathon]

My 5k race pace is under 5:40 min ks. 10k race pace about 6 min ks. Half marathon about 6:45 and I’ve been marathon training at about 7 minutes. I may need to slow down more as I’ve only got to 17 miles before starting proper training. Do what you need to do the distance. Think about pace later.

[Lordi Marathon]

Bazza. For me, my 5k PB + 40s/km is my HM pace, then plus a further 30s/km was my marathon pace. It's difficult to apply that sort of approach to a walk/run strategy though, due to variations in the exact time spent running v walking? I've only run one marathon and in that race I didn't set any target paces or think too much about my split times, or even what full distance time I wanted because the main thing in my first marathon was to just finish. I'd just focus on that and run at a comfortable "run all day" pace and enjoy the scenery Bazza. I don't think it is possible to run your first marathon to a scripted pace because there are so many things that can happen. In my own case I felt great at 21km, 30km, 35km, I might have even given it a silent "Woop, woop, this ain't so bad at all!" ...shortly before getting totally kicked in the arse around 37km..my pace dropped to 90s/km off my average race pace for the last 5k, i.e. barely running at all, then found a bit of energy for the last 1km (uphill) and finished a lot faster. I'd advise just setting off slowly and running comfortably Bazza knowing there is a long haul ahead and expecting a bit of a bonk/kick in the butt towards the end that you will just have to grind through.