Cholesterol and saturated fats

[basten]

The British Heart foundation we must avoid fatty meats sausages mince cut all fat off and avoid cream too much cheese etc I am concerned that the keto diet allows all these things. I have high blood pressure and i see a lot of recipes keep adding salt which they say is bad for high blood pressure

[SofaJockey]

Hmmm. I regularly eat double cream, avoid low-fat food, preferring full-fat food. I don't add salt, but I don't avoid it. I don't go 'full keto' keeping my carbs at around 50g/day not lower.

I think this approach is perfectly healthy and I've lost a good deal of weight. Haven't felt this good in decades.

My understanding of the science is that it's not cholesterol and saturated fat that is the problem, but carbs and sugar.

[basten in reply to SofaJockey]

Ok well I'm going to try it....yes cut back on carbs and sugar I agree there. Pleased you've lost weight well done. I do like my fruit tho so spose I'll have to eat just a couple pieces a day although I love a bowl of strawberries with double cream !!!

[SofaJockey in reply to basten]

That sounds lovely. I think it's just about balance. If you find weight loss is a little less than you would like, just adjust portion size and all should be fine.

[Midori in reply to SofaJockey]

We need a certain amount of fat in our diet to keep our brains and nervous system healthy. Our brains and nerve sheaths are mainly fat.

[Cooper27]

If you dig through the BHF website, you'll find they actually say there's holes in the saturated fat guidance, but that they essentially don't want to change their guidance without further investigation. I lifted this from their website:

"At the moment UK guidelines encourage us to swap saturated fats for unsaturated fats. You might have seen reports about a study we helped to fund which suggests there’s not enough evidence to back the current UK guidelines on the types of fat we eat. We think more research is needed before suggesting any major changes to healthy eating guidance."

bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo...

Certainly when you dig, you'll find some pretty awful misdirection when it comes to dietary guidance on fat, when you hear the stories you eventually come to mistrust anything "official".

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador]

The BHF are wrong. It's really that simple.

The basic problem is that the BHF was founded way back in the 60s, when Ancel Keys was the rockstar hero of nutritionism. Since then, his theory about cholesterol has been comprehensively destroyed by experimental evidence, but a lot of big organisations (including the BHF) would look a bit silly if they did an about-face. At best, people would stop funding them. So they keep on flogging the cholesterol story in the hope that nobody will notice it's rubbish. Not a good strategy, IMO, but it is what it is.

In what sense are you "concerned"? Do you mean you want to stick with LCHF but are afraid of the possible consequences? If so, a few things to ponder:

1) The advice to avoid fat is not new. It's been accepted as "common sense" by the vast majority of the public. And yet people are still fat, and they're still developing chronic diseases like atherosclerosis and Type 2 diabetes.

2) People following LCHF are looking incredibly healthy on all measures. If they were actually all dying from heart disease, you can be 100% confident that people like the BHF would be shouting about it really, really loudly: "See? We told you so". But that just isn't happening.

3) Your body stores most (70%+) of its energy reserves as ... um, a saturated fatty acid (palmitic acid). Yet according to the BHF, palmitic acid is a deadly poison. That's a bit of a strange solution our bodies have come up with, then, isn't it?

4) The NHS have actually admitted that there's no evidence for the standing advice, here:

nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs...

"In contrast to current recommendations, this systematic review found no evidence that saturated fat increases the risk of coronary disease, or that polyunsaturated fats have a cardioprotective effect."

... but they're going to stick with their advice anyway. Sigh.

If you're trying to lose weight and get healthy, I suggest you can prove to yourself that the BHF is wrong:

- Follow the LCHF plan exactly as described. After four months go to your doctor and get yourself weighed, and get your blood pressure checked. Check your cholesterol too, if you must (this is about as meaningful as measuring the length of your toenails and then consulting the Yi Jing, but I digress). If your appear to be healthier, that's most likely because you are healthier.

[basten in reply to TheAwfulToad]

That's very interesting. I enjoyed reading that. I try to do my research !!

[Subtle_badger in reply to TheAwfulToad]

It's certain nothing is going to change. Last year they teamed with a rapeseed oil manufacture to raise money for research. That research is not going to find out that saturated fat is good for you.

At least it's a cold pressed oil. 🤨

bhf.org.uk/how-you-can-help...

[Hidden]

Good calories Bad calories by Gary Taube explains the whole high fat cholesterol heart disease debate in ear weeping detail. Dr Assem Malholtra is the NHS’ leading cardiologist in favour of a low carb diet for heart disease.

[MikePollard]

The question of salt is way out of date. Unless you are severely compromised salt is not an issue. However if you are hyperinsulinemic/ insulin resistant you will tend to hang on to sodium and blood volume will increase - thats what raises blood pressure.

[basten in reply to MikePollard]

So if I am pre diabetic insulin resistant as overweight and I start keto should I avoid salt for now to start. I'm already on blood pressure meds. Thankyou

[AnnieW55 in reply to basten]

If you do You Tube look up Public Health Collaboration and a video by DrDavid Unwin (again 😀) with the title 7 years of low carb at Upper Norwood (that’s his surgery). Might be of interest to you. Link below, if it works.

youtu.be/RUH7epLxkV8(Not working as expected?)

[Subtle_badger in reply to basten]

A certain amount of salt is required to live. When you go low carb, there are several things to consider:

1) most salt in a typical diet comes from processed food. Did you know a slice of bread as the same amount of salt as a small packet of crisps? So when you go low carb, you will be eating a lot less salt.

2)Insulin holds salt. If you reduce insulin (which going low carb will do), then your body will release that salt. So you could end up with less sodium than you need for optimal health.

3) apparently only 25% respond to lower sodium with a drop in blood pressure. From a public health perspective, that makes sense: if everyone reduces their sodium, then 25% will reduce their blood pressure and that's a good public health outcome. But it's pretty annoying for most of us striving to reduce salt, without any personal benefit.

If you are on blood pressure meds, you should need to watch your blood pressure when you go low carb. If you can't visit your doctor to get it checked, I'd strongly suggest buying a blood pressure monitor. Then if it drops, you can call your doctor and get it dose reduced. My blood pressure was elevated, but for some reason my GP didn't prescribe me anything. If he had, I think I would be fainting now. My BP is mostly under 120/80 and I just took it and right now it was 105/60. I have had two glasses of water and two coffees today, each with a three finger pinch (or more) of lo salt (so sodium and potassium)

[basten in reply to Subtle_badger]

Thankyou. I've had to reduce my BP meds as nurse said they could be cause of swollen ankles and feet which have got better but ankles still bit puffy. My BP is not good. One day it was 160/103 but only that one day but still 158/90 or 148/92. I've been told I'm not diabetic but nurse spike to doc and gotta have an ECG tomorrow and keep doing my BP at home all week.

[Subtle_badger in reply to basten]

OK,if you are a monitoring your BP, that's all good.

Note that low sodium is a life threatening condition. If you aren't eating processed foods and you aren't adding salt, you might want to use an app (eg cronometer or myfitnesspal) to see how much salt you are consuming in a day. The NHS doesn't specify a minimum, but I think that is because if you are eating packaged foods, going too low is nearly impossible. If you are near or at the recommended 6g, that's obviously fine. If you are far below that, you should bring it up with your doctor.

Eg I recorded everything I ate 2 days ago, and excluding the salt I added, I had about 740mg sodium, or about 2.4g of salt. I think that would be a dangerously low amount. I don't need to talk to a doctor, because my BP is in check (it was up around where yours is). If you aren't eating much salt, your GP is best placed to advise you if you need to add it to your food.

[basten in reply to Subtle_badger]

Well to be honest I haven't gone full LCHF . I've had 1xweetabix for breakfast still. I've cut out frozen ready meals as living on own and depression and never a lover of cooking I find it extremely hard. I think tho not diabetic I'm maybe insulin resistant as overweight. I've read up on insulin and sodium retention which can cause hypertension and my father died suddenly of it at 63. Yesterday was a bad day and today. I went to shops and was hungry and went and bought pecan maple syrup pastry. Today I listened to my inner voice saying no no no but I still bought a Magnum icecream at the petrol station. I know my diet before I investigated all this on here has been off the wall binge eating packets of biscuits chocolate and high sugar high fat granola bars...I have a big problem and after I'd binged then my feet swelled and I know that's fluid retention. I'm sorry I'm being honest on this site and just get so confused with all the advice and what people have and haven't done to lose weight etc. Yesterday after the pecan pastry all I then had all day was strawberries and cream and two big handful of pecans. I really just feel like not eating anything and trying to fast for a day. The Gutsense doctor says if you are already overweight then you need very little fat. The other day I did have liver and veg then strawberries and cream and again in evening some more pecans which I eat a lot of. Then I get a message from a lady my age 71 that she lostv2 stone with Slimming World...but on here someone said they should be banned!!!

My issue is if i already have high BP then should it go down like yours did if I go full lowcarbhigh fat. And if I'm already overweight doesnt too much cheese and cream increase weight.

I DO know that the buying of sugar foods has to stop . I just find it so hard when sitting here all alone and fed up not seeing hardly anyone I've been badly comfort eating.

Interestingly if my daughter eats a few biscuits and chocolate she gets a red rash all under her hair on her forehead which goes when she stops them. She too tries not to buy but when shes feeling a bit low due to issues she reaches for a biscuit but then throws them away only to buy some more the next week.

Sorry for such a long rant but ive stood here all afternoon reading the messages and reading up on the relationship with insulin and sodium retention which is all new to me.

[AnnieW55]

I would also suggest a look at Fat and Furious. There are podcasts and You Tube videos that make for interesting listening/viewing.

[Midori]

I agree; it can be hard to tell nowadays what we should be eating.

[basten in reply to Midori]

Yep sure does!!