Introducing carbs again

[Lesley1234567]

I have kept my carbs minimal, that is only what has been in vegetables. But today I decided to have a ciabatta roll with two rashers of bacon and lettuce total calories 362 total carbs 25 grams, protein 22 grams. This is brunch, I have two meals a day. Is this bad, good or average. Please any comments. Just to add, I am trying to keep within 67 grams of protein and 88 grams of fat.

[Praveen55]

If you are on two meals a day, this appears to be a light meal! However, it all depends on what is your current weight and target weight.

As long as you are still getting the desirable results after adding carb, for example losing weight if on weight loss phase or not gaining weight if on weight maintenance phase, you are okay with the increased carb.

[Lesley1234567 in reply to Praveen55]

Thank you, I have been maintaining for quite a while now, within a few pounds. I keep my calories in the low range as much as I can, that was a heavy meal for me, I would normally have egg, spinach and two mushrooms cooked in butter and a cup of coffee with cream.

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador in reply to Lesley1234567]

As Praveen said, as long as you're getting the results you want, then what you're eating is "right". There's absolutely nothing wrong with the occasional dose of carbs. Personally, I get an occasional urge for a carby meal and just go with it, on the basis that my body probably knows what it needs. At the next meal I'll be right back to my regular menu.

The only thing you have to watch for is "carb creep" - adding more and more into your diet until you're right back where you started. However most people find this fairly easy to avoid.

[Lesley1234567 in reply to TheAwfulToad]

I am happy to avoid carbs now, as I see them as empty nutrients, but high in calories. I have been reading different reports saying we need carbs. I know in years gone they didn’t exist as they do now, I think that maybe our bodies have become used to carbs and we should keep some in our diet other than through vegetables. Is there any cases where people have become seriously affected through not eating carbs, I wonder. There is plenty to say for not eating carbs but nothing of any real consequence as to why we should and what would happen if we continue without carbs. If anyone knows you will TAT.

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador in reply to Lesley1234567]

I've found that just by eating a low-carb diet my body will make the right decisions about when it needs (wants?) carbs and when it doesn't - mostly, it just doesn't ask for them, so presumably they're not needed. I wouldn't like to speculate on whether humans actually "need" starchy foods - I have a personal theory that it's helpful to eat them occasionally simply to give your pancreas something interesting to do. But I might be completely off-base with that one.

As far as I'm aware nobody has ever found any negative consequences associated with low-carb eating ... and that's not for want of trying. The Nutritionism brigade would be over the moon if such evidence existed, but they've never been able to produce anything. In fact their adversarial approach is completely valid (although they possibly don't realise it): the scientific way of assessing any hypothesis is to try to demolish it. If you can't, it's probably correct (for a given value of "correct").

I agree with you that the way we're currently presented with "carbs" is very different to the way we would have historically experienced them. To take a simple example, most people would have baked their own bread a few hundred years ago, and it's very hard to overeat something when a lot of effort and expense goes into making it. If you can just buy it from the supermarket with the equivalent of 10 minutes salary, it's a lot easier to take it for granted.

[Lesley1234567 in reply to TheAwfulToad]

I don’t feel as though I need carbs anymore, but you just know if you go for a coffee there is nothing but fillings on bread or high sugar cakes. And you don’t want to be the one with nothing in front of you.

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador in reply to Lesley1234567]

ha ... that's true! It's not so bad in my part of the world, but I notice the coffee shops in the UK have nothing but carbs and sugar in the snack cabinet.

[Praveen55 in reply to Lesley1234567]

This is what Institute of Medicine, responsible for setting Dietary Reference Intakes, has to say about the Clinical Effects of Inadequate intake of carbohydrate:

DIETARY CARBOHYDRATE

Clinical Effects of Inadequate Intake:

''The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently

is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed.

However, the amount of dietary carbohydrate that provides for

optimal health in humans is unknown. There are traditional populations

that ingested a high fat, high protein diet containing only a minimal

amount of carbohydrate for extended periods of time (Masai), and in

some cases for a lifetime after infancy (Alaska and Greenland Natives,

Inuits, and Pampas indigenous people) (Du Bois, 1928; Heinbecker, 1928).

There was no apparent effect on health or longevity. Caucasians eating an

essentially carbohydrate-free diet, resembling that of Greenland natives,

for a year tolerated the diet quite well (Du Bois, 1928). However, a detailed

modern comparison with populations ingesting the majority of food energy

as carbohydrate has never been done.''

Dietary Reference Intakes, page 275, National Academy Press, Washington.

[Lesley1234567 in reply to Praveen55]

So when my doctor says my diet must contain carbohydrates, I shall ask why do carbohydrates matter in my diet.

[PoolBunny1 in reply to Lesley1234567]

Yes! My diabetes nurse bleated But you have to have carbs. But I feel better without!

[Lesley1234567 in reply to PoolBunny1]

Did she actually know why you had to have carbs, it would be interesting to know what any professional medical person tells their patient why they must have carbs.

[PoolBunny1 in reply to Lesley1234567]

Just said it was normal. Interestingly she battles herself with weight!

[Lesley1234567 in reply to PoolBunny1]

Have you lost by reducing carbs

[PoolBunny1 in reply to Lesley1234567]

No because I haven't done it consistently. Having just read the ideas put before me this morning it makes sense. Sugars seem better controlled today

[Lesley1234567 in reply to PoolBunny1]

Good. I’m not diabetic I’m purely here to lose weight but I have learnt so much about how food can affect you that after years of going on diets I now have found a way of eating for the rest of my life. I would like to lose a bit more but I have been maintaining for so long I am happy with the way things are going. Enjoying food I love and not being on a diet. Because what happens is you stop the regime and put all the weight back on, now I have been months staying the same within a few pounds up and down. Keep posting there is a plethora of advice and information here. Have you joined the lchf forum?

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador in reply to PoolBunny1]

It's really fascinating how the experts just repeat what they've been told and seem not to question it in any way. It's absolutely appalling that a diabetes nurse doesn't comprehend that diabetes is a disorder of carbohydrate metabolism.

Telling diabetics to eat lots of carbs is like telling someone with a peanut allergy that peanuts are a normal, healthy food and they should just take their adrenalin shots if they experience problems with peanuts. Peanuts might be perfectly OK for most people, but for that particular individual they're not. It's just bizarre that trained medical professionals cannot grasp this simple fact.

[Lesley1234567 in reply to TheAwfulToad]

A friend of mine was diagnosed border line type two would you believe the diabetic nurse told him he could have a two finger kitkat as a treat. I don’t understand why the GP’s are not questioning after all they have to deal with the aftermath.

[TheAwfulToad Ambassador in reply to Lesley1234567]

I suppose the cynical view would be that "dealing with the aftermath" keeps lots of people in well-paid jobs. Perhaps the more complicated answer is that NHS policies are often dictated by people with little or no medical knowledge, and food guidelines in particular are constructed by the industry, for the industry. Most doctors are, perhaps, just not very keen to put their heads above the parapet.

[Lesley1234567 in reply to TheAwfulToad]

Of course why would you sabotage your well paid job. Could be the time for change now with more information on the internet hopefully individuals will get savvy. However, there are always those who won’t go against what their doctor tells them.

[Nico101 in reply to PoolBunny1]

a diabetes nurse recommending you eat carbs. you couldn't make that up.

[Lesley1234567 in reply to Nico101]

They have not got a clue what they are saying, I’m sure.

[Lesley1234567 in reply to Nico101]

Not only carbs but high sugar carbs

[Nomash in reply to Lesley1234567]

I think carbs used to be called starch. And fiber was roughage.

[Nico101 in reply to TheAwfulToad]

yup. i'v been there and done that - twice! not worth it for me.

[Liza52 in reply to Praveen55]

Make these rolls - thelowcarbkitchen.co.uk/low.... (I flatten them more when I prep them so they're wider - more room for filling!). I cook three rashers of streaky til they're nice and crispy, cut them in half, and pile them in the roll (buttered). SO good, and REALLY filling. These rolls are also great with slices of cheddar and a great lunch on the move as you don't need a cool bag with hard cheese (which doesn't need refrigerating at least for a few hours).

[Lesley1234567 in reply to Liza52]

Thank you for the link, it is really good, she even tells you where to buy the ingredients cheaper. I have never shopped at Aldi because we don’t have one close by. But I will be finding one because I think (don’t know) that some of the ingredients could be expensive.

[BridgeGirl in reply to Lesley1234567]

Olive oil is certainly way cheaper in Aldi. If you have to make a trip, go when you need to do a full shop, particularly veg which are very good values

[Lesley1234567 in reply to BridgeGirl]

Which olive oil do you buy from there?

[BridgeGirl in reply to Lesley1234567]

Their own brand extra virgin and the 'Light in Colour' one. I got the light one for making mayo, having had a disaster using the EV - much too strong a taste.

[Lesley1234567 in reply to BridgeGirl]

What’s EV

[BridgeGirl in reply to Lesley1234567]

Sorry, extra virgin. I abbreviated it as I'd already mentioned it. Bad practice, I know

[Lesley1234567 in reply to BridgeGirl]

Thanks, obvious really. Is lighter oil mixed with water and that’s why it’s lighter?

[BridgeGirl in reply to Lesley1234567]

It says it's a mix of virgin and refined olive oils

[Lesley1234567 in reply to BridgeGirl]

Refined oils sounds as though it’s more delicate.

[BridgeGirl in reply to Lesley1234567]

I'm assuming that's why they're paler, but I don't know any more about the process. By the way, I've been told oil is equally good value in Lidl, but there isn't one of them near me (though one is being built)

[Lesley1234567 in reply to BridgeGirl]

I think they are both similar, if one was close to us I would probably go in and have a look and now someone has said they do healthy products for less too.

[Liza52 in reply to Lesley1234567]

We don't have an Aldi, so I get the flaxseed and coconut flour in Morrisons. Don't have/can't find ground chia, so I use 12gms psyllium husk instead, which works really well. You can only buy online now (Holland and Barrett used to stock it). amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06.... Yes, expensive, but you only ever use about 10-15 gms (sometimes less) in a recipe, so lasts for ages. We certainly don't eat the bread every day (I make a batch and a half, so 9 rolls, and they will last two of us about 2 to 3 weeks). I make tortillas and put some psyllium in that too, and you can use a tiny amount to thicken soups and stews (tiny - a tsp for example).

[Lesley1234567 in reply to Liza52]

I have never used psyllium, is that expensive. The reason I ask is because in the past I have bought ingredients and used them once and guiltily thrown them out when clearing out cupboards, I don’t mind if I haven’t paid too much.

[Lesley1234567]

Hi StillConcerned, are you asking me ‘why so little fat’. If so I do think I am having quite a lot of fat, but after years of being told fat is bad then I probably still find it hard to eat it. I am probably one of the oldies who after my first baby over forty years ago was conditioned to eat low fat, and it has stuck.

[Juppy in reply to Lesley1234567]

Yeah, me too. This time I’m adding a lot more healthy fats and am losing weight without needing as much self-discipline. Especially when I have carbs I’ve found I need fat to balance it out and prevent later cravings!

[Lesley1234567]

Thank you

[15beansoup]

What ?? I don't, once again understand, why only two meals a day? WHY all that counting?? are you trying to lose weight or maintain weight. Why aren't you eating something every two hours for maximum metabolism, burns fat and gives high energy? Why count calories, protein, why not just count carbs? have your number and stay under that each day, life made simple. Who came up with all this GUILT SHAMING if we screw up, so what! life's not over, we get a do-over each meal, each day, We are so busy creating chaos for ourselves, who taught us this formula to life ?? We need to come to some kind of acceptance of ourselves and know we are capable of making the right decision WHAT ever that is for ourselves, Enjoy the change and don't make a full-time job out of it, Be mindful, Enjoy our new lifestyle and if we screw up every once in a while just remember tomorrow is a new day,Celebrate life and celebrate YOU !!! sorry, little sleep and no coffee this am, it makes me crazy lol, I am trying to understand,