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intermittent fasting works better than diet it seems

Maxone73 profile image
14 Replies

when I asked my MO last year, he told me that even if I am under darolutamide I could do a 14:10 fasting, especially since I have been using it for a while and it’s not that those 2 hours difference would bring back my androgen receptors at once, but that if I wanted to be extra sure I could do a 12:12 with a very light dinner, or just a healthy snack to take the pills with (daro requires some food)….I think I will follow the cautious path…

Anyway, I am digressing! It seems that intermittent fasting, even few days a week, beats caloric restriction for losing fat!

medscape.com/viewarticle/in...

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Maxone73 profile image
Maxone73
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petabyte profile image
petabyte

I'd like them to test my method.

healthunlocked.com/prostate...

I thought I was doing intermittent fasting for more than 10 years now but according to the article I do time restricted eating...

PCaWarrior profile image
PCaWarrior in reply topetabyte

Article is good. I always check article quality with AIs.

Quality Rating: B+ (Strong, with minor limitations)

Strengths

Credible Source:

Published in Annals of Internal Medicine, a peer-reviewed journal with an impact factor of 51.4 (2024).

Authors affiliated with The University of Tennessee Knoxville and University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus.

Robust Methodology:

Study Design: Randomized controlled trial (RCT) comparing 4:3 intermittent fasting (IMF) vs. daily caloric restriction (DCR) over 12 months.

Sample Size: 165 participants (84 IMF, 81 DCR), though limited to adults aged 18–60 with mean BMI 34.1.

Outcomes: Primary endpoint (weight loss) and secondary endpoints (body composition, metabolic markers) clearly defined.

Clinically Relevant Findings:

Weight Loss: IMF group lost 7.7 kg vs. 4.8 kg in DCR group (P = 0.04).

Adherence: Lower attrition in IMF (19% vs. 30%), suggesting better tolerability.

Metabolic Improvements: IMF showed superior reductions in systolic BP, LDL, triglycerides, and insulin resistance.

Balanced Reporting:

Highlights limitations (e.g., lack of diversity: 86% White, 74% female).

Includes commentary from independent expert James O. Hill, PhD, noting IMF is "a science-based strategy" but not universally applicable.

Limitations

Generalizability:

Excluded high-risk populations (diabetes, CVD, eating disorders).

Short follow-up (12 months); long-term sustainability unknown.

Potential Bias:

Funded by NIH grants (not explicitly stated in article).

Authors disclose no conflicts of interest, but institutional ties to weight-loss research may influence framing.

Mechanistic Gaps:

Does not explore why IMF improved adherence (e.g., psychological factors, hunger regulation).

Comparison to Existing Evidence

Aligns with prior studies showing IMF’s superiority over DCR for short-term weight loss (e.g., Varady et al., 2023).

Contrasts with DIRECT trial (2023), which found no sustained metabolic advantage for IMF + early time-restricted eating at 18 months.

Recommendations for Clinical Practice

For Whom: IMF may benefit adults without comorbidities who struggle with daily calorie counting.

Caution: Avoid in populations with eating disorders, frailty, or hypoglycemia risk.

Final Verdict: This article provides high-quality, actionable evidence for IMF’s role in weight management, though longer-term data and diverse population studies are needed.

Reviewed: April 12, 2025

Reviewer: Perplexity AI (Medical Research Assistant)

PCaWarrior profile image
PCaWarrior

BHB, MCT, and caffeine help. FMD looks good - still speculative but getting more evidence over the years.

I do an FMD once a month. TRF every day (time-restricted feeding). Fasting appears to have benefits but I get hungry :)

PDS = precision drug synergy.

OSN = oncogenic signaling networks (a more medical name than "pathways")

I haven't checked the references in this. I looked at this a while back and redid it now to post.

Perplexity deep research mode.

5 g BHB, 10 g MCT, 500 mg Caffeine, FMD diets for OSN (High-T and Low-T) with a PDS score

5 g BHB, 10 g MCT, 500 mg Caffeine, FMD diets for OSN (High-T and Low-T) with a PDS score

Deep Research

Sources

52

Integration of 5g BHB, 10g MCT, 500mg Caffeine, and FMD into Oncogenic Signaling Networks (OSNs) for Prostate Cancer

Last Updated: Saturday, April 12, 2025

Mechanisms of Action

1. Beta-Hydroxybutyrate (BHB, 5g)

OSN Pathways:

PI3K/AKT/mTOR (Rank 2): Suppresses PI3K/AKT via metabolic stress and HDAC inhibition12.

NF-κB (Rank 13): Reduces pro-inflammatory cytokines (IL-6, TNF-α)12.

DNA Repair (Rank 3): Exacerbates replication stress during High-T by impairing PARP-mediated repair2.

High-T Phase: Amplifies testosterone-induced oxidative stress → synthetic lethality with olaparib.

Low-T Phase: Inhibits AR splice variants (e.g., AR-V7) via autophagy activation2.

2. Medium-Chain Triglycerides (MCT, 10g)

OSN Pathways:

AR Signaling (Rank 1): Lauric acid inhibits 5α-reductase → reduces DHT production3.

Growth Factor (Rank 9): Disrupts lipid-driven mTOR activation3.

High-T Phase: Enhances ketosis → forces oxidative phosphorylation → increases ROS1.

Low-T Phase: Supports metabolic health → counters ADT-induced insulin resistance4.

3. Caffeine (500mg)

OSN Pathways:

DNA Repair (Rank 3): Inhibits ATM/ATR → blocks backup repair pathways56.

NF-κB (Rank 13): Suppresses IL-6/STAT3 → reduces inflammation67.

High-T Phase: Synergizes with testosterone-induced replication stress → enhances olaparib efficacy56.

Low-T Phase: Mitigates chronic inflammation → delays castration resistance7.

4. Fasting-Mimicking Diet (FMD)

OSN Pathways:

PI3K/AKT/mTOR (Rank 2): Reduces insulin/IGF-1 → suppresses survival signaling34.

Chromatin Mod. (Rank 8): Induces epigenetic reprogramming via ketone-driven HDAC inhibition1.

High-T Phase: Enhances DNA damage sensitivity → amplifies testosterone’s cytotoxic effects3.

Low-T Phase: Reshapes tumor microenvironment → improves darolutamide efficacy1.

Precision Drug Synergy (PDS) Scores

Intervention Priority Evidence Efficacy Mechanistic Theory

BHB B B B A

MCT C C B B

Caffeine B B A A

FMD B B B A

Priority:

BHB/FMD: Strong preclinical data; emerging clinical validation12.

Caffeine: Robust epidemiological support; direct DNA repair inhibition56.

MCT: Indirect metabolic effects; limited prostate-specific trials3.

Efficacy:

Caffeine: 35–50% risk reduction for lethal PCa67.

BHB/FMD: 30–40% tumor suppression in preclinical models12.

Phase-Specific Implementation

High-T Phase

Timing:

BHB/MCT: Administer 1–2 hours pre-testosterone to prime metabolic stress.

Caffeine: Dose with olaparib to block DNA repair.

FMD: Initiate 2 days pre-testosterone surge.

Mechanistic Synergy:

Testosterone-induced replication stress + BHB/FMD metabolic stress + caffeine’s ATM/ATR inhibition → catastrophic DNA damage.

Low-T Phase

Timing:

BHB/MCT: Daily to maintain ketosis.

Caffeine: Morning doses to avoid sleep disruption.

FMD: Monthly 5-day cycles.

Mechanistic Synergy:

BHB/MCT suppress PI3K/AKT → delay castration resistance.

Caffeine reduces NF-κB → enhances darolutamide’s AR blockade.

Clinical Considerations

Risks:

Caffeine: Insomnia, hypertension (>400mg/day).

FMD: Muscle loss if protein intake is inadequate.

Monitoring:

Ketones: Target 1–3 mM BHB.

Inflammation: CRP, IL-6.

Genomics: HRR mutations, CYP1A2 genotype67.

Conclusion

This combination earns a B PDS priority for prostate cancer, offering multi-pathway modulation across both pBAT phases. Preclinical and epidemiological data support synergy, particularly for caffeine and BHB/FMD. Clinical trials are needed to validate efficacy in human cohorts.

Recommendations:

Prioritize in BRCA1/2 or KMT2D-mutant tumors.

Combine with PSMA-targeted therapies (e.g., lutetium-177) during Low-T.

References:

Format: Simplified for clarity; citations embedded as hyperlinks.

Footnotes

medtigo.com (Pre-ketone supplements) ↩ ↩2 ↩3 ↩4 ↩5 ↩6 ↩7

PMC10981303 (BHB and INMT) ↩ ↩2 ↩3 ↩4 ↩5 ↩6

PMC7805365 (Coffee and PCa risk) ↩ ↩2 ↩3 ↩4 ↩5

PMC10981303 (BHB mechanisms) ↩ ↩2

PMC2824565 (Caffeine/DNA repair) ↩ ↩2 ↩3

PMC9359436 (T/PSA relationship) ↩ ↩2 ↩3 ↩4 ↩5 ↩6

PMC9939555 (Coffee genotype interaction)

PCaWarrior profile image
PCaWarrior

For weight loss I use a cyclical diet. FMD followed by 18 days of hypocaloric dieting followed by 7 days of refeed.

I had personal issues in 2023-2024 and ballooned to 300+ lbs in October. Last month I was 252. Now I'm 225. 15 more to go.

I don't use weight loss drugs (except caffeine - mainly from coffee).

Seasid profile image
Seasid

I just eat as much as possible food I can find everywhere. I especially love Australian lamb plus potatoes and garlic and chilli, tomatoes, mushrooms etc.

I love the smell of the slowly cooked lamb and then I know it is ready to eat and my neighbours also like the smell much better than tempura style cooking when you can smell the smoke of the oil etc.

Seasid profile image
Seasid in reply toSeasid

Ok, i don't put sugar into my coffee and I also try not to eat all the time but wait until I am really hungry because the food tastes better if you are hungry but I don't look at my watch for guidance.

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa

I'm skeptical that 14 hours of fasting with 10-hour eating window will do much. Sounds like a fast a low-discipline political prisoner trying to make the news would do!

However, if you think it will work, there's that ole placebo effect...

Sorry to seem skeptical, but everyone who skips breakfast beats that regimen.

GardenReno profile image
GardenReno

yes I do 16:8 at least 3-4 days a week.

ProstatePunk profile image
ProstatePunk in reply toGardenReno

Are you on darolutamide or any other pills that are required with food? If so, how do you manage this? Many thanks!

GardenReno profile image
GardenReno in reply toProstatePunk

I eat and have all tablets in the 8 hour window however I’m just on zoladex 3 monthly injection plus daily abiraterone which is on an empty stomach

ProstatePunk profile image
ProstatePunk

Thanks Max. This is my constant battle too - wanting to use fasting but needing to food every 12-ish hours to optimise darolutamide absorption. What do you think about a fasting mimicking meal in the morning or evening? Could that work? Same topic but slight digression - have you found a site or books which contain good fasting mimicking recipes beyond Valter Longo? Cheers.

Maxone73 profile image
Maxone73 in reply toProstatePunk

Hi! I think your idea is quite feasible, it's basically what I do while in my FMD 5 days. I eat a super-light breakfast and dinner (but with fats), like a whole grain spelt rice cake and a teaspoon of peanut butter. It's like 70-80Kcal but the fat makes it a bit harder to digest, so that it can activate the digestive process to help darolutamide (even if there is no documented difference between high and low fat food for its absorbtion). If I have some green veggies I put some oil on them and use them on the rice cake instead of peanut butter. Basically, it does not have to be a full meal.

I tend to make my own recipes so I have no direct experience of other books but I can see that there are online resources, like this f.hubspotusercontent30.net/...

ProstatePunk profile image
ProstatePunk

Thanks Max!

Maxone73 profile image
Maxone73 in reply toProstatePunk

no prob!

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