Guys. I think that the time has come for me to own up to depression. Unsure if this is as a result of PD or the configuration of life’s circumstances over the last year. As some of you know, I had DBS about a year ago which some will point to as being the culprit but I don’t believe that this is the case. I think that much more likely is the fact that I have PD, my mum has Alzheimer’s, I still have to pay a mortgage out of my pension, my wife works part time, my daughters have just graduated from University, have huge debts and appear to be struggling to get a career and live in a country that offers little except grey skies most days. What’s not to like? 😂😂
And I’m unsure about what to do about it. A shit life is a shit life, despite me trying to convince myself otherwise: I tell myself that I have a nice home, a lovely family, two dogs, have had DBS, get free prescriptions but irrespective of my carrying out this positive list regularly, I feel very sad and miserable much of the time 😣. I cannot seem to raise my spirits to do many of the odd jobs around the house that need doing which is always a tell tale sign of depression.
So, can this be fought and if so how. Do anti-depressants work? I’ve heard mixed responses to them frankly but would be interested in hearing the communities take on this situation.
Thank you 🙏
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jeeves19
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dear jeeves19, Im sorry to read your latest message. From what I have learnt about depression, it does sound like you might have it and you should speak to your GP but also your neurologist or PK nurse as you have to check what you can take with you other meds. I myself an not keen on anti depressants or other similar items but sometimes that is what you need over a limited period. Also, do you have a hobby, or go to any social activities, try to keep your brain occupied? Good luck
I think that’s part of the problem actually: I don’t have enough stimulating company. I’ve just taken the dogs for a walk in the park (in the rain: what else in the U.K.?) and it hasn’t shifted it at all. I’m a real extrovert: I thrive on other people’s company but it gets harder to meet people in the day when all of my mates are at work etc. The DBS hasn’t really worked wonders for my speech which I could do without. One foot in the grave? Seems like it currently. . 😬. Thanks for your concern though. Sorry I’m finding it so hard to perk up.
Here you are in the right place, here at this moment, to find agreement on depression.
if I wanted to give you some advice, I would say leave Hu for a while, turn off the TV and the internet at least for a week to take a walk, observing the things around you, and say "hello" with a little interest and admiration to the people you meet, just to understand how your point of view on life changes.
If you are an artist as I believe, your task is to dream, dream of a better future world.
Nuclear physicist will not survive without artists , he doesn't have the vision, only the "Reality", but don't ask him what it is.😂
But who am I to give you advice, just a poor former Italian farmer with the PD.
Gio
Greetings from Italy
Drawing of my three year old grandson.
Future Picasso😊
Jeeves! You are one of my favorites! Sorry to hear the blues have got you. As you know meds are risky with P D. Try exercise, diet (forks over knives or other plant based low inflammation diet with no seed oil or sugar. Pray ( even if you dont believe) faith is a big help with depression. Ask God for faith! What have you got to lose?
Gallowglass. I’m a big believer although I don’t really subscribe to a particular religion . I will ask, and maybe he’ll help out. Maybe he won’t. His help isn’t a given sadly.
Based on the very good safety profile of low dose Lithium Orotate (LO) or Lithium Aspartate (LA) alone, it is seriously worthy of your consideration. The other health benefits are just the frosting on the cake. If it works it is a cheap fix. If it doesn't, not much lost but the price of one bottle/bag of LO/LA!
Jeeves thank you for your honesty and openness. I'm sure you will help many more by bringing this up. I don't have an answer although I agree that feeling connected to something bigger than ourselves helps - whether it is god, nature, others etc.
My game changer has been hypnotherapy. No amount of positive thinking, talking therapy, displacement activities would change the thought patterns. Hypnotherapy is the only thing which over time has led to me thinking 'wow that was a new pattern of thought for me - I like it, I'll keep it'. I started monthly in 2020 and it was a game changer. Now much more sporadic but still every now and then when I feel old patterns lurking...
Thanks for that. I’ll have to look Hydrotherapy up. Can’t say that it’s something I’ve come across. I’ve felt this brewing for some time and put a message out to lots of friends stating how I needed their support and friendship. Sadly, I’ve not heard from half of them. Once good friends I hasten to add. It’s being a bloke you see. Socially so unpredictable.
MaryAlice (my grandmothers name 😊). I totally believe in God but am also totally aware of his ability to allow his children to suffer. Maybe in the long term it’s for the good of our souls but he sure has some strange attitudes.
Why would a god make you suffer.:Bring you into this world and torture you. If you believe in god, well he/she gave you PD. I believe that there’s something after this but it’s not anything man can imagine. There has to be a reason for this fantastically beautiful world we live on from the bottom of the oceans to the farthest reaches of space.
Nitro. I agree with everything you say but whilst I don’t think God inflicts pain, I think that the ‘deal’ with our coming to this earth is that we’re abandoned by him to suffer at the hand of nature and -sadly- unconscious human beings. How many pigs do you think were slaughtered today after a short, sad life, caged like they’d committed a crime? 3.8 million. That’s every day, and about 1 million cattle, every day. This being a ‘fantastic beautiful world’’ largely depends on whether you were born into a human body . Certainly the dominance of our species hasn’t made provision for good lives for other life forms. And I hope somebody upstairs is looking for them cause as sure as dammit, God ain’t.
I have no advice ,Jeeves but I just wanted to say that I hope it lifts soon.
You replied to my first post on here and said you recognised me as a Brit! The replies I had on here really helped me through the dark days after diagnosis. I should imagine you've had the same benefits from the PD community on here
PD is shit. No doubt about it.
I'm sorry that I have no words of wisdom, but I'm sending positive vibes down the M6 from Liverpool to Brum.
Hi Jeeves. I’ve noticed you haven’t been posting as often. Basically since your DBS. I just assumed you were better since the surgery and maybe doing other things.
In reading your post, I think you do need an antidepressant. You would need to talk to your doctor and see which one would fit your needs. I’m on Lexapro.
I think you told me one time that there isn’t a Rock Steady near you? Rock Steady is a wonderful place to meet people. One of the best things about it is, it’s only for PwP’s. You can go there and you’re just like everyone else. All the people are very nice & they all have PD so they lift your spirits and give ideas that may help your situation.
Has the DBS been worth it? What did it help and what did it not help? 🥊
Hey Debbie. Yes long time no hear. I hope you’re doing okay? You must be in 17/20 years by now eh? That’s some going Deb. I know you’ve always raved about Rock Steady but unfortunately it’s never really taken root here. And I’m quite cross about it actually. But my local gym does have BOXERCISE which I shy away from as it seems like seriously hard work. Maybe I need to be brave and go for it!
Also, I have decided to have DBS. There’s a “window “ of time that it works better and my doctor thinks now is the time. The date was just set. It’s Dec 18th.
Great. I hope it goes well for you., I’m here for you if you have any questions . It generally covers about half of your symptoms, and.meds are expected to meet the needs of the remainder., The very best of luck Debbie.
Ah, maybe a mission /challenge for you. Investigate starting rock steady boxing in your area. Talk to gyms, boxing clubs etc and try and work out a business case. Reach out to possible clients in your area to see who would come.
Even if it doesn’t work out it would give you a mission and purpose and people to talk to.
Do please give antidepressants a try. There are many different kinds and could make a great deal of difference to you.
There are times when you need to reach out for this extra help and the time has come for you. It is not a sign of weakness. You cannot go on with this darkness and need proper help. I have seen medication help a great deal.
I have no children, wife left me years ago.I live on my own.My best friend (my cat)died month ago.I would be the happiest person on the planet should I have a family ....I usually wake up depressed just when Ie realise how bad my situation is (debts , health, relationship etc.).... but then I start to meditate ;after that I continue with beginners or some little advanced YouTube yoga classes and finish with chigong... This combo usually shifts my focus , relaxes the body and even though I still remember where I am (the deepest hole🥴) I feel good 👍....As an alternative to antidepressants try medical cannabis;)😄
I like the principle of this argument but what if some depressions are caused by chemical Imbalances like a lack of dopamine or serotonin? In such a model thinking processes aren’t implicated but physical imbalance are?
I would say you can't separate the causes, both are involved i. . I'm sure that when you start to control your negative thoughts just even by counting them your serotonin and dopamine levels will increase naturally.. this is a great book on this topic. David Burns MD - Feeling good
I have always despised taking medication, but sometimes we have to determine if the benefits out weigh the negatives. The last thing I want to hear from my physician is that I have to take another med. I have always prided myself on picking myself up by my boot straps. However, depression is a viscous cycle. Exercise, yoga, meditation are all great suggestions, but if you can't get motivated and stay motivated, you are not going to do these activities. PD also lends itself to depression on top of all of the environmental issues you are dealing with, a little bit of an anti-depressant can make a big difference. I have had a lot of anxiety in my life (Now I know the anxiety may have been early signs of PD, who knows for sure.) I have tried a about 3 different SSRIs and Sertraline (Brand name Zoloft) has worked very well for me. It is suggested you begin with a low dose, possibly breaking pills in half or quarters, so the side effects are minimal as you get use to it. It can make a big difference.
You’re very kind to share these thoughts. Thank you. Very perceptive of you to note that some of the activities aren’t always feasible when you’re truly down.
I thought about replying in private chat but am taking the chance of getting some flack. Here in Colorado, one of the US epicenters of drug liberalization, hallucinogens are the new depression treatments gaining ground. So much so that our local hospital has hired researcher Dr. Charles Raison to start a new treatment center and program.
There is a great deal about this online and the studies like the one below are fairly conclusive, that in moderate to severe depression the results are pretty good.
The important distinction is that a hallucinogenic treatment is NOT about taking medication to correct an ongoing imbalance that is causing ongoing sadness. It is about using medication in an attempt to come to terms with the very real problems that are causing the depression.
interestingly I wrote to Amanda Feilding the other day enquiring about her Foundation and whether she thought psychedelics had a role here. Sadly, she - the guru of psychedelics in the U.K. as a solution to depression - hasn’t written back. I’m going to imagine that she never received the letter rather than spin a tale around it all. 🤔😬
SSRIs made hubby worse. He felt better then gradually turned manic like the dopa does to him. But then maybe he is unusual. It is probably a try it and see thing. But if you try it start a much lower dose than prescribed and see if it makes you feel a little better or a little worse. If it is enough stay on that amount. If no difference increase a little and wait a while. These things take ages to kick in so maybe wait a month between increases. Once you feel a bit better, not necessary elated and joyful, stop increasing. Much more than that ccould make you turn jittery and manic. Or maybe it won’t. You might be a positive responder.
If you don’t want to try the drugs get yourself some St. John’s wort tea and try drink 1 a day for a month, and some rhodiola rosea. I think that stuff is magic!
Hubby was really bad over the middle of the year but I put him on rhodiola and St. John’s wort and the high dose dha fish oil that Laurie mischley recommends and he has slowly been pulling out of it again.
BTW are you going into winter there? That seems to be worse for hubby. Get up as soon as dawn breaks and go for a walk outside for 20 minutes and get some morning light, and get off any screens once it gets dark. I think for hubby circadian rhythms and light are a key factor. This year when the football season started he was getting up sitting in dark room watching the games until 11am and that’s when he did a big dive.
St. John Wort extract taken in capsules has been working for me. Somehow it switches my brain from negative toward positive thinking. Also, teachings of Eckhart Tolle help to put things into a positive perspective by not dwelling on past or future but being in the present moment.
I just read a book about adhd which was very interesting. I feel a lot of it particularly the chapter on self hypnosis was very relevant to PD too. He scans the brain and can separate adhd people into subcategories based on which parts of the brain aren’t firing. Fascinating.
Hi Jeeves, I take Prozac and I think it helps. I have weaned myself off of it twice in the last 3 years and crashed and burned, so it seems I need it. I have some regrets that are the reason I need it. There are downsides to Prozac and there is research that it really does not work. Do your research.
What I would look at first is Lithium Orotate. Thomas Gattuso's study seems to show a benefit for PD and I think it also perks you up. I take 30 mg every morning (with my Prozac). I feel pretty chipper. Here is a recent post on this: healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
Thinking of you not sure how to help other than to say I know it's tough. You have been an inspiration over the years and a source of great hope. Take care and know people are thinking of you.
No Cleo. I love music but it’s always a tad retrospective. So when I listen to 70s music I get sad because the 70s have gone and I wish I was back there. 😂
I suggest talking to your doctor about your depression. Pharmaceutical intervention might be just what you need - either an antidepressant or an adjustment to your Parkinson's meds .
Personally I have taken Citalopram for years and don't notice any side effects from it, but everyone is different.
I also strongly suggest joining some in-person groups or classes. I attend exercise and taichi classes for PD, I have friends who attend Men's Shed groups, Parkinson's UK groups, etc. Exercise and stimulation helps with PD and committing to a class gets me out of the house , out of my lethargy and out of my depressing (ruminative,) thought patterns. It will provide you with the social contact you are missing!
How much amitriptyline are you on? I thought the tricyclics were being wound down as they’d been implicated in dementia causation ? Don’t mean to add to your anxiety but look into it? A small dose might be ok, but BIG dose maybe not so good?
So sorry to hear you are struggling with depression. Not a nice place to be! I also struggled with depression a few years ago and found talking therapy to be very useful. One of the things that my therapist encouraged me to do was to get a punchbag. I find that to be one of the best ways of raising my energies and spirits, as also is singing! For all that, I have come very close over the years to accepting treatment with antidepressants.
I have an issue with an underactive thyroid, and before I had some treatment for it I was very demotivated and depressed.
The same with vitamin D and magnesium and vitamin b12. Hopefully if you talk to your GP he or she may do some of those tests before embarking on antidepressants. You may find it useful to do a private test, using a fingerprick, and posting it to the lab for assessment. I use Medicheck, but there are others, I believe Horizon is one.
I get a lot of information from the thyroid UK Health unlocked forum.
Well done for coming out into the open with your depression! I do hope you find something that lift your spirits. Do keep in touch and let us know how you are doing.
Sorry to read about your struggles, especially as you’re a fellow brummie!
I could say that moving South to Hampshire as I did nearly 30yrs ago is the solution but that’s probably not feasible and unhelpful!
I’ve always been a positive person and generally tend towards being more introvert but I did get to a point a couple of years back when I could feel my thoughts getting dark which was a surprise and quite scary. Coincidentally at the same time sleep was becoming more of a challenge and my GP started me on Mirtazapine 15mg. This is normally prescribed as an antidepressant but normally starts at 30mg. It has been found to be helpful for sleep at this lower dose and actually since then I’ve not sensed my thoughts being negative in the same way again.
So I’ve got no easy answers but maybe just some encouragement to ask for help from whoever you think will be most understanding.
Also always available for a video chat if that would be helpful?
Thanks for that Nick. A really nicely written message. I’m actually already on Mirtazapine and am on the 15mg dose, which as you indicate helps me sleep and has done a good job of this for ages. And thanks for the invitation to chat . However, what I find more so is being able to meet face to face. If I have an ‘action packed’ week (lots of activities and people oriented stuff), then I’m generally okay. I’m a classic extrovert and gain my energies from meeting and interacting with other people. That sounds well enough but it leaves one at the mercy of others added to which I’ve found that being a bloke is hard work: women make networks and men ….er…..don’t! I’ll take myself off to the GP on Monday and have a chatette. Cheers, and best wishes.
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