Thought quite interesting
frontiersin.org/journals/nu...
I am big believer in Niacin but currently having to back down from 3 grams per day because of elevating fasting blood sugar. After a week of will start back at 2 grams and see where my blood sugar goes. I normally run high 80's and it had reached 161 after 12 hrs fasting and 148 after 20 hrs. Hope to solve this issue soon because the benefits sure look good.
This is definitely interesting because a previous study by the research team found similar results regarding the association between dietary niacin intake and cognitive function. In that study, not only an abstract but the entire research was available, which made it clear that it is specifically the intake of niacin through food that is being referred to (statistically significant only when niacin intake was between 20.69 and 26.90 mg).
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...
Perhaps I couldn't find them, but unfortunately, those tables are not yet visible in the research on the relationship with PD in this post, making it difficult to connect such values. The promising conclusion "Dietary niacin intake was inversely associated with PD risk in US adults, with a 23% reduction in risk for each 10 mg increase in niacin intake" seems to be limited, as otherwise, B3 would be the cure for preventing PD...
There's also the niacin pd study 100mg and 250mg per day
"16 Foods That Are High in Niacin (Vitamin B3)
The best way to prevent parkinson's, unless you are one of the distinct minority with genetic frailty, is to avoid the horrible chemicals in use in dry cleaning and in agriculture that literally cause it from exposure. You can find out what those are but generally the agricultural chemicals are paraquat and it's relatives, and the cause is pretty clear.
Now, if I might be so bold, a little bit on "observational" studies, which means nearly all studies that are "association." It really is very difficult for such studies, which have nothing to do with direct interventions, to establish with any serious strength to establish any sense of causality. Really is tough to say that the association is due to whatever item is, like use of b12, b3, is in a positive sense to the problem, ie, Parkinson's. Not to say it is critical to have sufficient B3 and b12, b6 and b9; it is. But what you really want are interventional studies, and then you want replication of those studies by other parties than the ones who first on the correlation. That's because with the correlational study you really cannot know why the correlation (association) is what it is. It could be an "artifact" (another word for unrelated coincidence). The world is full of such coincidences so I don't have to go into it here.
On top of that there are many biases introduced by modern researchers who don't design controls to counter the biases either they bring k for profit, for ambition, or because of the profit motive of the publisher or the thunder or the fact that people tend to pay for things that show positive results rather than negative results all of which are biases that have nothing to do with the underlying cause and effect mechanisms that might exist, or not exist... And then there are the problems of ambition and honesty of the researchers, and these folks are as human as anybody else, as are the publishers of journals, which after all also want to earn a good living and maybe do better so are subject to the morals of the people in charge), or that is inherent in the subject they are constructing. "Replication" is what separates the wheat from the chaff and that takes time and that takes money, a lot of it... and time (a lot of it). And on top of that there are a huge number now of journals that don't even publish retractions when the evidence they have published is flawed or corrupt for some reason... after all, they are in business to make a living too, and that means sales not truth. And then there are the complete phonies like the guy who did reservatrol in order to make $100 million for himself, and he fudged everything in his lab and is still at it and it is even a supposedly reputable lab like Harvard medical School, which is his actual lab. Total fraud. Unfortunately he's succeeded in making all those millions and so he's continuing the fraud now in a second wave 20 years later with his same lab, and Harvard seems unable or unwilling to stop it. "Oh well."
Don't hate me for it, actually I could care less if you do, it's the truth and it's part of the picture. The philosophy of Stoicism, especially Marcus Aurelius and the people who say how to practice it these days, is the way to deal with it. To which my two word equivalent is: "Oh well." Beats being dead, at least so far. Tomorrow's promised to no one, comfort and relief is promised to no one. Oh well. Yes I know to some that sounds callous and I really do fervently wish it did not, the idea is to remove pain, and disability, not increase it or impose it. To that regard also I have no problem with using recreational chemicals, if it brings relief of the sort that you would want to repeat it or find value in doing so. I guess my hope is that when we are able to find fellows in similar circumstances and bond with them a little bit, and also make access of whatever mind-altering chemicals we are allowed to use, they're both good things and maybe insulate us from the pain of the harsh truths we also all have to face, this particular being only one of many.
Understand me correctly, it is precisely the conclusion drawn from this study, which suggests that high niacin supplementation could prevent PD, that I find questionable and indeed calls for more rigorous research. However, I completely agree with your firm observations. I enjoyed reading them thoroughly.
It is always advisable to take precautions and minimize exposure to harmful chemicals, but it is not a guaranteed method to prevent PD in all cases, as there also seem to be lifestyle and dietary factors that I believe can be crucial. As I mentioned earlier, I seem to have a stress-related form of PD.. Deficiencies in vitamin B (B6) caused by stress and an unhealthy lifestyle, as well as a lack of sleep, have played a significant role in the development of my PD and PN, with or without the influence of genetics and environmental factors. However the impact of proper vitamin B supplementation, stress avoidance, and lifestyle improvements on the progression of my PD and PN are promising.
Now now. I don't recall saying "all" cases. So how did you come up with that one? And how did "guarantees" get into it? What's with the rhetorical gimmick?
Ask SilentEchoes about whether he would insist on the all or none sophistic way that you rephrase the issue so as to make a better point or maybe seem to be able to make a stronger argument. (It's not fair to quietly change the premise so you can sound wiser, and you know it, that's an Little bit of a sneaky trick which most people won't catch, except of course a lawyer or politician.) I'm sure SE will tell you it was definitely more valuable to prevent Parkinson's in a single case than to reject an idea because it failed to prevent Parkinson's in all cases. They sure took that into consideration of the corporate level when developing paraquat, when they knew it was enough of a poison and a killer to offload many billions of dollars of otherwise cumulative liability onto persons licensed to use it still themselves as the manufacturer. They knew people were going to get poisoned or they would not have taken that step to shunt responsibility for the poisoning and do somebody besides themselves (which was sufficiently aware of the interest sees of law to result in a liability dead end for all parties concerned, except of course the victim. Don't quietly diminish the horror he has had to go through because you changed the premise to require a perfect argument of prevention in "all" cases. I'm sure for him one case prevention would have been more than enough, much less "all" cases, "guaranteed." (Of course, the prevention I mean in this case is that horrible neighbor might have just stuck with the use directions or safe handling as per license instruction, instead of what sounds to me like intentionally poisoning his neighbor... I wasn't suggesting that in this case simply taking enough B vitamins would have done the preventive trick, getting sprayed he was going to get diseased with 100% certainty.)
The temptation to give a Sophistic answer is strong, but "Oh well."… I support your point about the importance of preventing PD in individual cases and the devastating impact of certain chemicals. SilentEchos' experiences are shocking. I have reread them. Why should we not talk about politics at HU?!
But now from SE, introduced by you, to my own individual case, I would like to stoically continue the discussion on the potential benefits of niacin and its role in the risk for PD, the original theme of the post. While I agree that interventional studies and replication are important for drawing stronger conclusions, it's worth exploring the potential benefits of vitamins and minerals in relation to PD. 🍀
Thanks WhyRBD! I am taking 1 gram of nicotinic acid twice a day. I feel good. I was thinking of getting a blood sugar tester, but I probably won't. I feel good.
Bolt_Upright I remember you saying that if B3 is taken after the last meal of the day, it doesn't cause elevated blood sugar, right?
I was taking after my last meal 1.5g and morning during fast 1.5g - I measured blood sugar after waking and before dosing. Could just be me and I will adjust and measure sugars to see if an issue. The concern is I suffer from other autonomic issues: orthostatic hypotension. I will let everyone know as I progress
So here is the video. What he says is:
1: 1 in 43 people that take high dose Niacin get diabetes.
2: You should eat a high carb meal with the Niacin (or within 2 hours of taking the Niacin).
3: Don't eat anything, especially carbs, in the 3 to 6 hours after taking the high dose Niacin.
The whole thing seems kind of speculative. I am hoping my Berberine is helping lower my odds of having a problem with blood sugar.
How to Take Niacin Without Getting Diabetes | Chris Masterjohn Lite #140 youtu.be/76mrnovnGQ4?si=IMn...
Bolt, "Feel good" can be misleading, especially in the long run, many conditions are known to have what are called "subclinical" or "asymptomatic" non-"complaint" status (complaint being with the patient's subjectively reports but not an indicator of what undermining disease is developing) until disease is very well established and possibly irreversible or untreatable (including things like diabetes, cancer, in fact numerous cancers, etc. it's a pretty long list actually.) So I think it's worth it to get that blood sugar monitor and then later just sell it on eBay if you need the money.
Thanks Marion. Good advice.
Very interesting dose correlation indeed!
Increasing my dose of B1 after 4 years and 7 months
Question for all that have been here for Awhile
