Melatonin and tremors

[Astronomer90]

I don't have sleep issues normally as running helps with sleep. But I have sometimes problem of acting up in night dreams and read that melatonin helps with it. I started taking melatonin occasionally on some nights. I found that its not helping with acting up in night dreams but it helps with hand tremors next day. I tested 3-4 times and realized that my tremors were better next day if I take 10 mg melatonin at night. Does anyone has same experience? Or it is just placebo affect.

[Farooqji]

Never used dose above 6 mg. Will experiment and let you know

[nednedned]

For me melatonin gives me lucid dreams. It makes sense that your symptoms better if you had a good night sleep.

[eschneid in reply to nednedned]

I only take 3 mg of melatonin- larger doses led to brain fog. I do have vivid dreams, which I occasionally act out physically.

[HekateMoon]

I use 30 mg. Generally sleep like a log and dont have much tremors. My only issue is foot dystonia if a dopamine dose fails or i take it late.

[kaypeeoh]

I take Melatonin 10 mg at bedtime. And sleep through the night most nights. When I ran out of 10mg and had to take one 5mg I still slept decently. My only neurologic sign is double vision. If I go beyond 8 hours the double vision is back. But shortly after taking the next dose the double vision is gone. It's been more that three years since the diagnosis of PD. I've had tremor in my dominant hand for at least 6 years. The tremor is unchanged by Rytary. I go for botox injections every three months. It lessens the tremor somewhat. My doc was on tv talking about DBS for essential tremor. She's never mentioned the possibility for me. The DAT scan says I have PD.

[MarionP in reply to kaypeeoh]

Fascinating!

What (i.e., incl. where) is the target of your Botox injections, and where are the injection sites (if you don't mind)?

[kaypeeoh in reply to MarionP]

The doctor changes it a bit with each appointment. INITIALLY She had a nurse holding up an anatomy text featuring muscles and nerves of the forearm. I remember her mumbling about extensor carpi radialis and ulnaris. Then later some injections into the dorsal wrist. My tremor is kinda rotational with the axis in my wrist. Recently because of headache she added injections into my skull. Very small injections but they sting like crazy. She's apologizing constantly during the injections. I keep thinking something narcotic might help more but she vehemently refuses with my wife standing behind her echoing the same. She practices in Connecticut.

[MarionP in reply to kaypeeoh]

TY.

Yeah you don't want to go on opiates man, our brains are just made for becoming addicted to things, it's turned out to be a major evolutionary survival feature what's actually very widespread in our brains and the basis for a great deal of our learning at the chemical level, and unfortunately when we are talking about what used to be called more generally alkaloids it does have its serious backfire aspects too, alkaloids come lock you into an addiction that is experientially like a 500 lb anchor that you will never lose. What a special about them is that they operate on a feedback loop process called opponent process that locks you into having to use more and more and more to get a gradually less and less and less normal perception and experience. It is truly and brilliantly demonic in its mechanism. It's definitely something that's best not started until you really have no choice, or are willing to commit to a great deal of personal discipline. Apart from there pain relief, the only saving grace alkaloids have is that they don't affect your mentation, constitutionally that is.

[rube_623 in reply to kaypeeoh]

can i ask what doctor gives you botox in your hands? i have multiple sclerosis and terrible hand tremors. i asked my neurologist and he didn't have anyone in the group that would do it. And how much relief did it give you?

[kaypeeoh in reply to rube_623]

The tremors are painless. But they're a nuisance. Each treatment lasts about 3 months more or less.

[barrie1757]

Tryptophan at night seems to help with my tremors. I add a small amount during the day as well.

[chartist in reply to barrie1757]

Tryptophan is a precursor for melatonin and serotonin as discussed here :

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl....

A relevant quote from the above link :

' The amino acid tryptophan is the precursor of several important products including serotonin or melatonin (Fig. 2). These molecules are biogenic amines of low molecular weight that belong to the indole group. It has been observed that the synthesis of melatonin in the pineal gland diminishes with aging.5–7 '

Art

[MarionP in reply to barrie1757]

Another VERY interesting response.

[Toogood]

I will try it and see thanks

[Tomkins]

hello Astronomer

I have been living with a diagnosis of PD for almost 5 years. My main symptom is dystonia in my left hand and mouth. I have acted out my dreams for at least 10 years. About 6 months ago I started taking 6mg of melatonin.

I haven’t been meticulous about recording violent/thrashing/shouting/kicking episodes since starting these meds (though am now doing so in anticipation of my next appointment in 4-6 weeks). My own and my partner’s impression is that they have reduced significantly. I can’t tell if I feel any more groggy in the morning than I did before taking them.

I sleep very well most nights eg from 11pm til 8am

I hope that helps you in your journey

[chartist in reply to Tomkins]

The thrashing about or acting out while sleeping is usually caused by REM sleep behavior disorder (RBD) which is often seen in people with PD. Melatonin is considered a frontline treatment for RBD as discussed here :

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

An interesting and relevant quote from the human study of melatonin and RBD :

' With melatonin, RBD symptom severity gradually improved over the first 4 weeks of treatment (Ikelos-RS: 6.1 vs. 2.5; CGI Severity: 5.7 vs. 3.2) and remained stably improved (mean follow-up 4.2 ± 3.1years; range: 0.6-21.7years). Initial response was slowed to up to 3 months with melatonin-suppressing (betablockers) or REM sleep spoiling co-medication (antidepressants) and failed with inadequately timed melatonin intake. When melatonin was discontinued after 6 months, symptoms remained stably improved (mean follow-up after discontinuation of 4.9 ± 2.5years; range: 0.6-9.2). When administered only 1-3 months, RBD symptoms gradually returned. Without any melatonin, RBD symptoms persisted and did not wear off over time. Clock-timed, low-dose, long-term melatonin treatment in patients with iRBD appears to be associated with the improvement of symptoms. The outlasting improvement over years questions a pure symptomatic effect. Clock-time dependency challenges existing prescription guidelines for melatonin. '

Art

[MarionP in reply to chartist]

You ought to be a baseball player because lately you've been batting a thousand.

Just don't start recommending "fast walking." It would be too much like jumping the shark.

[chartist in reply to MarionP]

Okay, I'll skip the fast walking, this time!

You might find the following of interest :

Here is a little info on how melatonin helps muscles :

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Here are two relevant quotes from the review :

' Melatonin is a highly evolutionary-conserved ancient molecule that was only recently rediscovered as a safe dietary supplement in muscle disorders and in exercise. This review attempts to shed light on potential and promising therapeutic roles of melatonin to limit muscle deterioration, mainly mitochondrial function, and sarcopenia. Main pathways activated by melatonin in skeletal muscle are drawn in Figure 2. '

' However, the utility of melatonin in athletes to obtain the best physical performance is strictly time-dependent, dose-dependent, and exercise-dependent. '

The following gives information on one way of several that melatonin helps the spine :

sciencedirect.com/science/a....

Here are a few relevant study quotes :

' •

Melatonin can effectively alleviate intervertebral disc ageing and degeneration.

•

Melatonin inhibits disc cell apoptosis and degeneration in multiple ways.

•

Melatonin promotes matrix anabolism in intervertebral disc cells.

•

Melatonin resists oxidative stress, regulates autophagy, and inhibits inflammation.

Art

[Erniediaz1018 in reply to MarionP]

🤣

[MarionP in reply to Tomkins]

What is your age please?

[Tomkins]

just to add

Re tremors and melatonin - I used have tremor in my right hand but since starting L-Dopa about 4 years ago this has subsided.

[dSimpson]

my movement order specialist, "neurologist has put me on MELATONIN for "acting out" dreams. She has told me that I must take it consistently for (6) weeks to realize the affect.

As of yet I have not managed to get into the habit.

[MarionP in reply to dSimpson]

What dose and brand of the supplement he recommended? Thanks very much.

[Caro-1973]

Melatonin is the King of the kings in antioxidants. Better if taken with alpha lipoic acid with biotine and L-carnitine and Vit D. (Dr Oliver Phillipson 2017 to stop PD progress ). Melatonin 3 to 5 mg 3 or 4 nights a week.

[Erniediaz1018 in reply to Caro-1973]

please post link to this statement thank you

[Caro-1973 in reply to Erniediaz1018]

Regards!

Screenshot