My husband has had PD 30 years now and has not been too good recently. Yesterday morning he fell over in the bedroom and split his little toe. He was shouting at the top of his voice for me. There was blood all over the carpet but what was most notable was that he was speaking and acting as if he didn't have PD. He was animated. I bandaged him up and he calmed down and to his own admission had a better day than usual . It is not the first time something similar has happened. If he has a sudden shock or gets upset about something the same thing happens. He seems to get an adrenalin rush and you wouldn't think he had PD.
Has anyone else experienced this and has any research gone into it?
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JeanieBeanie
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This phenomenon is probably also known to others. Humans have 2 types of dopamine circuits: (1) A congenital or conditionally determined base amount of dopamine. This one fluctuates a bit over the day. A low basic amount translates into introversion, low motivation and focus, little enthusiasm, calm personality. (2) Dopamine peaks, caused by exciting experiences.
There are 2 types of peaks:
Peaks after which the basic amount of dopamine is higher after the end of the peak than before the peak: (for example, the Wim Hof method)
Peaks after which the basic amount of dopamine after the end of the peak is lower than before the peak (for example, watching porn, snacking).
Apparently your man's dopamine production shock is so intense that it persists for the rest of the day. Exactly how that works is still not clear. Interesting is the extensive explanation of the neuroscientist Prof. Dr. Andrew Huberman on dopamine. A long seat, but it is very interesting if, like us, you are constantly confronted with it. The effect of cold showering on the dopamine system can be seen here from 1:30-1:40.
He has investigated ways in which dopamine levels can be affected in healthy people. He has come to the conclusion that cold showering or swimming in cold water can sustainably increase the level of this substance by 250% (it assumes a normal situation, not someone with Parkinson's):
Perhaps it may activate dormant dopamine cells that are currently under further research. Here's a clear and simplified explanation:
According to Marianne van der Meer of the Dutch Parkinson's Association, the health benefits can be enormous:
- Training of the cardiovascular system (blood vessel system);
- Activation and production of brown fat. The function of brown fat is to be able to warm up the body when it has cooled down;
- Production of white blood cells and propagation of anti-inflammatory proteins;
- Release of cortisol and adrenaline;
- Disposipation of waste;
- Release of dopamine, serotonin, endorphins and melatonin. These substances play a role in mood, pain processing and sleep-wake rhythm.
Hof has seen unimaginable results in people who suffer from burnout, cancer, MS, depression, Lyme disease, asthma, Parkinson's, among others... Symptoms can be reduced by taking a daily cold shower. Benefits it could offer people with Parkinson's are more initiative/willpower, more energy, better sleep, better mood and pain relief due to increased muscle tone.
It doesn't matter from what perspective you're undergoing the cold shower for the effect on your dopamine level according to Prof. Dr. Huberman. However, you must 'be in the mood to enter into this experiment'. Because otherwise it won't work. (The reason I stay away from a cold shower or plunge pool even in a sauna). So judge yourself and try. Unless you suffer from vascular problems (high blood pressure treated with medication, stroke, heart failure), you are pregnant, suffer from Raynaud's disease or have epilepsy, anyone can tolerate a cold shower up to 30 seconds to begin with.
could you elaborate on the “being in the mood” concept? Do you mean seeing the cold shower as a positive experience rather than forcing yourself to do it? Relaxing into the shock of it? What exactly makes it work to produce dopamine? Is there a link to Wim Hoff explaining this?
Studies showed that the autonomous nervous system can indeed be influenced by the method, but the meaning of the studies is still being considered. (Radboudumc). The cause of the increase in dopamine levels has not yet been investigated and the same goes for the influence on PD.
As mentioned, it doesn't matter for the effect on your dopamine level according to Prof. Dr. Huberman, from what perspective you are undergoing the cold shower..
- Trying to keep breathing slowly and staying relaxed;
- The cold is close, really stepping into it;
- Thinking about other things so that you turn your attention away from the cold.
So just judge yourself. How it works is unclear, but to keep dopamine levels at a high level for a longer period of time, is different and more difficult for PD. From my own experience and your contributions, motivation is inexplicably important. The PD placebo effect undoubtedly has to do with this. The enthusiasm with which I can warm up (not to the Wim Hof method) for therapies, philosophies, ideological initiatives, nature experiences, nutrition, exercise, PD treatments, are disproportionate to reality, but it does provide the dopamine boost. Carefully nurturing this and seeking balance to permanently increase your dopamine level is more important to us than just the Wim Hof Method. I therefore agree more with Dr. Mark Cohen: "Your body builds up a tolerance very quickly. But when you go from the cold, you have to go to the hot. And once you've done hot and cold, you need to rest and let your body come into balance and homeostasis. And this is the part that's often neglected. But this is the juice- The reward of doing the hot and the cold therapy is having the bliss of perfect balance of temperature of that thermal regulation".
Huberman quotes from Dr. Anna Lembke’s book 'dopamine nation, finding balance in the age of indulgence'. He uses to confirm his views, but in her book she emphasises balance even more, with the following 10 balance lessons:
1. The unlimited pursuit of pleasure (and avoidance of pain), leads to pain;
2. Recovery starts with refraining;
3. Refraining resets the brain-reward system and with it our ability to enjoy little things can grow;
4. Self-gratification literally and figuratively creates space between desire and consumption, a necessity in our dopamine-flooded world;
5. Medication can restore balance, but we lose a chance by taking painkillers;
6. Suffering pain resets our balance to pleasure;
7. Beware of becoming addicted to pain;
8. Radical honesty promotes awareness, intimacy and a satisfied mindset;
9. Social shame confirms that we belong to the human tribe;
10. Instead of running away from the world, we can find our place in it.
Back to the cold baths with this quote from Dr. Marc Cohen “If you're forcing people into it, it can actually be traumatic. So you've got to be careful. And really, people are exploring the edge of their tolerance. And I talk about how to be comfortably uncomfortable. Or how to get to the point where you reach what I call forced mindfulness. It's when your body demands the attention of your mind saying, 'Hey, we are really cold. Get out of here'. Or, 'Hey, it's really hot. Get out of here'."
Next time I take a cold shower very carefully, but after the sauna. 🍀
The scientists interviewed in this piece hypothesize that emotion can open up an alternative neural pathway enabling movement in spite of PD. If they can home in on this pathway, perhaps they kind find other ways (besides strong emotions) for patients to access it.
YES!! I noticed the same thing with my husband when we went to the doctor & he returned from the visit animated & walking beautifully! It lasted a few days because of some other changes in where he was living. It was sooooo noticeable!!
I saw something like this in a talk on neuroplasticity.
The grandparents are visiting the grandchildren. The grandfather sits in a chair about six feet from the top of the stairs. The toddler grandchild is heading for the top of the stairs and getting ready for a swan dive down the stairs.
The grandfather leaps up from the chair, rushes to grab the toddler, and saves it from breaking its little neck. The grandfather sits back down to have tremors and dyskinesia.
Their point was that the brain rewired circuits so the grandfather could save the little child.
I don't recall how much longer Grandpa had superpowers, but it wasn't long.
Very interesting. I have experienced the exact opposite. I was diagnosed 1-1/2 years ago. Most of my symptoms are in the legs: freezing, slowness, weakness. If I am alarmed by something or get agitated about something, my legs stiffen almost immediately and it is hard to move.
That's a hard one huntingdogbella. My husband has a lot of postural instability and has many falls. If I talk to him from behind, or if he has turned mid stream of my talking and his back is to me, he instantly freezes and starts to fall. Parkinsons is the most bizarre disease I feel - so many issues to deal with potentially and so many different side effects from progression and meds.
That's one thing I learned very quickly. Do not talk to a PWP from behind them as they may turn then fall. Allow the person to focus on walking.
Nowadays, he needs cues when walking over a thresh hold or when the floor material changes from carpet to tile or other flooring. He ends up on tip toe. My cues are feet flat. Ok now big steps. Takes a few seconds (most days) and then he's on his way.
I'm keeping a list of "tips" to share with other caregivers.
Thanks Linda - totally agree. It's been such a new thing the talking from behind causing this, but onto it now - so thank you. I often am saying to him, heels down. He does the tippy toe A LOT !!! Having fisio at present to try and help with the balance.
Hi JeanieBeanie, my husband had a reaction that left him like he had no PD for a day also, many years ago when we were caught in the Christchurch earthquake. The adrenalin sent him sky rocketing into action, to move quickly, get our cats safe, us safe, neighbours etc and as many miles away as we could get. It lasted into the evening his 'rush' then came sleep and next day - major crash on all fronts. It was amazing to see how he was able to push his body to the max though, albeit pay for it the next days... Not quite the same maybe as your husband but not really had anything since and that was as you probably know, 12 years ago.
Hahahaha - sorry to laugh - that tickled my fancy. Yesiree. But instead of a prick in the arm (LOL), I wonder if startling a person, like when you wake up from a dream fast and heart racing after a nightmare or climbing stairs and missing the step.. .you know what I mean aye. The scare tactic somehow, but how, without it being mean.... not so easy. Popping a balloon maybe......when they are not expecting it. Its definitely an interesting subject that this 'normal' thing with adrenaline is real.
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