Very interesting Vitamin C Review - Cure Parkinson's

Cure Parkinson's

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Very interesting Vitamin C Review

MarionP
MarionP

Much more concerning neurodegeneration and Alzheimer's particularly, not so much PD but still of note. Takes a slow read but very interesting, reminded me about how excess stress does affect aging and neurodegeneration generally, as per aging generally, and Vitamin C role in slowing it, but the idea reminds me about the role of vitamins generally and their importance.

Some here such as Rescuma have championed their involvement and certainly that is a fine thing to remember and important to point out from time to time. Now we see expanded roles for Vit C and parenthetically, E. Helps us not lose our marbles too fast, as unfortunately happened to Captain Queeg (he could keep some of them in his pocket for old times sake but they weren't much use).

Very nice review, and be sure to follow-up the relevant references to the extent possible.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

28 Replies

The value of proper nutrition and vitamins is immeasurable.

However, more is not better and you must be careful when supplementing.

With vitamin C, you get the best bioavailability between 200 to 500mg/day.

pnas.org/content/93/8/3704

Higher long-term dose of vitamin C could deplete Copper, increase the risk of cataracts, possible iron overload, higher urinary oxalates and kidney stones. If you have a kidney problem, probably best to stay below 200mg.

google.com/search?q=high+do...

Avoid combining vitamin C with fatty foods (as little as 10% fat ), esp. bacon or nitrate‐containing foodstuffs - may promote cancer by increasing nitrosamines up to 140 folds

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

healthline.com/nutrition/ar...

Avoid over-consuming the vitamin E high in synthetic alpha-tocopherols - may increase the risk of prostate cancer, especially when combined with selenium.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

health.harvard.edu/blog/sel...

Choose vitamin E containing tocotrienols along with other natural variants of E, γT, δT, γTE, and δTE, in addition to αT

mdpi.com/1422-0067/17/11/16...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

If you've been supplementing higher dose Zinc and vitamin C for the Covid, be careful that you're not creating a copper deficiency. You should be very mindful to keep the ratio at around 8:1 Zinc:Copper. Keep your eyes on unexplained anemia and low neutrophil count as well as increasing gray hair.

holisticprimarycare.net/top...

However, if you're a vegan or vegetarian, you could be copper toxic, which is also a big risk for neurodegeneration and Alzheimer's. Goes back to proper Zn:Cu homeostasis balance being the key in addition to the ability to detox - i.e. not be deficient in chromium, manganese, molybdenum, sulphur, etc. - this is tricky without supplementation in this world tainted by glyphosate that binds and depletes these minerals.

healthline.com/health-news/...

google.com/search?rlz=1CAMW...

Great in-depth reply. Lots of info on vitamins to revisit and 'digest' Thank you

PS is there a good Vitamin e supplement you could suggest?TIA

Search for "Tocotrienols complex" or "complete vitamin E" on Amazon, Vitacost or elsewhere. I like the Fakespot Chrome extension to spot out incentivized products. You need to be sure it has gamma tocopherol along with other forms for complementary biological activity and not rely heavily on alpha tocopherol - it's the gamma that rid of peroxynitrite. I currently use the one by Dr's Best for tocotrienols difficult to obtain enough through dietary sources and offer superior anti-cancer (induce apoptosis), neuroprotective, and cholesterol/triglyceride lowering benefits.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/235...

Also, "Preclinical studies showed that tocotrienols prevented Parkinson-related toxicities in cultured neurons, as well as the loss of dopaminergic neurons in an animal model of Parkinson’s disease "

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

Trixiedee
Trixiedee in reply to rescuema

What’s your opinion on liposomal C?

rescuema
rescuema in reply to Trixiedee

Liposomal C is great for enhanced oral absorption. The liposomes used to enhance intracellular delivery of C in the intestine is negligible in amount and bypass the proximal stomach where it could be problematic. Inexpensive regular C is also fine - just take it without a fatty meal.

Sapeye2020
Sapeye2020 in reply to rescuema

Thanks for all the info.

I have to believe that Glyphosate grabs my precious Mg too, correct? Hence giving us rotating CRAMPS....?

rescuema
rescuema in reply to Sapeye2020

Absolutely. Glyphosate also impairs oxalate metabolism so watch it if you're consuming oxalate-rich diet that can materialize as inflammation, pain, muscle cramps/twitching, neurological symptoms, kidney/adrenal issues.

Sapeye2020
Sapeye2020 in reply to rescuema

Your timely comment follows a serving of Asparagas last night...I will monitor symptoms to day. #1, I was talking to the wife about what you wrote and I had a hell of a time with some of the parts / words... stuttering and halting.

rescuema
rescuema in reply to Sapeye2020

Asparagas can be a trigger also with high purine. If your diet is low in calcium, the problem can worsen.

Take food along with calcium citrate or magnesium citrate to help bind the oxalates and uric acid. Taking potassium citrate also can help as long as you're not dealing with low BP. If you're deficient in B1 and B6 (with c/l use), endogenous oxalate synthesis goes up exponentially. Have her drink LOTS of water, possibly with squeezed lime/lemon juice.

Sapeye2020
Sapeye2020 in reply to rescuema

rescuema, I am the PwPD... my wife is a retired University Nursing Lecturer... Not so sure if she will be happy with just drinking more H2O.... (Wink)

I have a blood taking later this week, over the last couple years all my numbers have been above mid point except: B12 , I take a pill every day,I am at the top of the range now; and My LDL is creeping up , Dr wants me to go STATIN's, but the pain was too much on top of PD. I went on Statins to humour my (now retired) GP. I am taking

Melatonin 50 mg per night and I hope that it has a been long enough time to drop the LDL and up the HDL, I also take 200 mg of Mg Bisglycinol BiD and have Mg Citrate on the shelf for the constipation. Good to know about the additional info about oxalates. I take a B50 once a day.

rescuema
rescuema in reply to Sapeye2020

I misread that your wife was the one who may have been experiencing a problem after the asparagus - doesn't have to be PWP to have an oxalate/purine problem.

I'm not a fan of Statin but the drug can be useful in some cases - just be very mindful of all the side effects, including potential neurological issues. You might also want to look into using sunflower lectin powder as well as trying niacin for cholesterol control while being careful of possible diabetes complications. Some members on this forum seem to notice the benefit of managing PD using niacin. onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

Adjusting your diet, especially significantly lowing the protein amount (way smaller than your palm) can be very helpful in addition to exercise, but I'm sure you're already aware. People who have oxalate issues are usually the ones who actually try very hard to eat the best they could according to conventional nutritional wisdom, but end up experiencing unexpected dysbiosis and inflammation - I'm sure you've already started your research down the rabbit hole.

Sapeye2020
Sapeye2020 in reply to rescuema

rescuema, thanks for the link very interesting

Diet,... about 2 years ago I had a calamity, I got food poisoning, an under cooked drumstick with thigh, at the end of 5 wretchurous days I was 10 pounds lighter,(now 175#) I managed to keep water and juice down and take some aspirin.

Wife had been working on an almost meatless eating plan, so took the opportunity to start it as I was eating bland foods anyway. That was the start of losing another 20 pounds (now 155#). Off to the GP, > blood work > assess calories eaten per day, estimate calories needed for exercise (swimming 1 Km, 3x a week) and I was about 1000 calories short / day. So for several months I stabilized and as I uped my intake of protein and calories there was NO change on the scale...

Enter god-Daughter, Reg. Nutritionist, who specializes in anorexic nutrition, tells me it may take up to a year or more for the body to utilize everything it is supplied with...

Currently I am up to 165# and it takes about 4 or more weeks to gain a pound and keep it.

I did take HD- B3 for about 6 months before PD Dx post Bypass Surgery, but no measurable effect. I read the data in that link and I will add it to the list for my MDS meeting. It might have been why she was surprised that I did not follow the normal track of PD symptoms degradation.

Will look into the Sunflower Lectin powder also.

rescuema
rescuema in reply to Sapeye2020

I suggest you try Jarrow’s Zinc Balance. It sounds to me that you might be deficient in zinc especially after lowering protein. It has copper in decent proportion so it’s a safer way to supplement while trying to bring back up the dripping homeostasis. I say take 1 pill on top of your usual multivitamin. Take it away from bigger meals at least 2hrs away to help with absorption. I also advise you look into supplementing ubiquinol, especially while on statin. If your diet is heavy with kale, spinach, cauliflower, etc. that are high in oxalates be careful and lower the intake.

Sapeye2020
Sapeye2020 in reply to rescuema

Ubiquinol is in my currently used supplements, as is the only Zinc product our Health food store can get, there has been a rush on it apparently "due to people using it for a immune booster", imagine that. Will have to see what they have now.

OOPs we do have spanacopita about once a week.

rescuema
rescuema in reply to Sapeye2020

I order mine from Amazon. Unless you’re keen on your status, it’s best to avoid supplementing just zinc to avoid getting Cu out of balance.

amazon.com/Jarrow-Formulas-...

Sapeye2020
Sapeye2020 in reply to rescuema

Looks like NOW Vitamins, in Canada . has close to you without having to exchange currencies , etc.

Each capsule contains:

Zinc (from L-Opti ZincMonomethionine) - 30mg

Copper (as Amino Acid Chelate) - 300mcg

rescuema
rescuema in reply to Sapeye2020

Not exactly what I'd recommend. The ratio is way off. It's better to be around 8:1 to 12:1 Zn:Cu. The reason I often recommend Jarrow's ZB is simply for a convenience factor to avoid Cu deficiency that might be caused by Zinc over-supplementation longer term. The 30mg zinc is on a higher side (unless you choose to cut the pill) when you combine that on top of your multivitamins for other minerals that you need along with zinc that's probably already included, and it's preferable to stay below 35mg per day total zinc for safety and to avoid choking the zinc receptors or cause competitive inhibition. It's actually best to supplement copper and zinc at a separate time for optimal absorption since they're antagonists, so you can opt to supplement Cu separately in the correct ratio based on your daily total elemental Zn intake. If you're eating a diet high in Cu, the need for supplementation goes down.

Sapeye2020
Sapeye2020 in reply to rescuema

I like the idea of splitting as I can get 15 mg Zn and 2 mg of Cu from several makers easily. I will contact our Health Store tomorrow. Must be there is a max of those 2 metals.

I had to look at the Periodic Table to confirm that they have the same + charge, it is 2 for both.

MarionP
MarionP in reply to Sapeye2020

"Must be there is a max of those 2 metals."

Yes you can overdose on essential metals. Think Goldilocks, not King Midas.

But if you do overdo it, nature provides: Just eat some Roundup, which you can't avoid anyway, and it will chelate all those pesky essential trace minerals right back out of you.

Sapeye2020
Sapeye2020 in reply to MarionP

Well that is the first time I have heard of a 'positive side ' for Glyphosate/ RoundUp on a forum like this one..

I confess that in the '80s' I was a member of a team of Foresters charged with coming up with a solution of invasive Aspen on a site that should have Pine and D.Fir growing on it. The approved solution was the use a weak concentration of Round Up applied to an axe cut on each target tree that killed only the target trees. It worked like a charm.

That is probably the theory farmers use now to hasten the drying time on our grains: oats, wheat, etc.; and how RoundUp gets in some of our morning breakfast.

Thanks Marion for that bit of 'Good News ;

I think I will still stick to my Organic grown Cereals. Cost a bit more but no brain fogg

rescuema
rescuema in reply to Sapeye2020

"a 'positive side ' for Glyphosate/ RoundUp"

LOL NO! You misunderstood - you'll learn that Marion is a queen of dry humour and sarcasm.

Avoid glyphosate at all cost, including avoiding drinking/cooking with unfiltered tap water. Cross-contamination is unfortunately very high with glyphosate, even in organic products. Nowadays, you can only manage to minimize the intake.

"Glyphosate, a probable human carcinogen according to the World Health Organization’s cancer research agency, was found on 100% of oat cereal samples and 100% of pinto bean samples tested."

foe.org/news/new-study-mult...

MarionP
MarionP in reply to rescuema

Exactly!!!! The powerful chelation of glyphosate can, all by itself (not to mention the possibility, hidden by great regulatory latitude given the manufacturers who are allowed to add ingredients that are never listed, to help keep the base molecule competitive, or even, are carefully hidden behind glyphosate because manufacturers can use it to hide behind, pack in old-style heavy metals like arsenic and lead just as they were in the cotton and tobacco growing days of lands now used for rice and grains)...glyphosate alone was originally used for its very highly chelating properties, back in the 1950s and 1960s before they applied it to weed control.

So now in addition to it's cancer-stimulating properties (it originally killed weeds by making them GROW FASTER and outlive their food supply...i.e., inducing effective starvation by growing too fast for its food supplying mechanism to keep up...dysregulated cell growth is another word for "cancer") Was saying the opposite of "positive." Sorry if it looked a little obtuse.

So I said Roundup because glyphosate alone is never alone, it is accompanied by other, non-mentioned additives that I very much suspect rely on the old standby reliables, lead and arsenic, that was used heavily to grow cotton and stop boll weevils, and stop fungus and other growth troubling tobacco. Today that same land is now used to grow large scale rice. AND TEA. So if you think your rice is all that free of contaminants, those old pesticides lasted decades in your ground, in fact, concentrated and collected there with continued use over the decades. As recently as the last couple years there has been fairly wide publicity of the problem with tea, scientists suggesting that you limit your infusion and boiling to fewer minutes than you might like, because after a few minutes the concentration of heavy metals leaching out of the leaves into your kettle or cup goes dramatically up.

Sorry if I seemed a bit obtuse. It is true that somewhere in my past a durable sarcasm gene showed up and was passed along. In fact, my humour is already so dry that even Glyphosate might not dessicate it much further!

🤨 Nyeahhh Nyyeahhh

MarionP
MarionP in reply to Sapeye2020

Ummm, I see I appeared unexpectedly sunny. Sorry about that.

The powerful chelation of glyphosate can, all by itself (not to mention the possibility, hidden by great regulatory latitude given the manufacturers who are allowed to add ingredients that are never listed, to help keep the base molecule competitive, or even, are carefully hidden behind glyphosate because manufacturers can use it to hide behind, pack in old-style heavy metals like arsenic and lead just as they were in the cotton and tobacco growing days of lands now used for rice and grains)...glyphosate alone was originally used for its very highly chelating properties, back in the 1950s and 1960s before they applied it to weed control.

So now in addition to it's cancer-stimulating properties (it originally killed weeds by making them GROW FASTER and outlive their food supply...i.e., inducing effective starvation by growing too fast for its food supplying mechanism to keep up...dysregulated cell growth is another word for "cancer") Was saying the opposite of "positive." Sorry if it looked a little obtuse.

So I said Roundup because glyphosate alone is never alone, it is accompanied by other, non-mentioned additives that I very much suspect rely on the old standby reliables, lead and arsenic, that was used heavily to grow cotton and stop boll weevils, and stop fungus and other growth troubling tobacco. Today that same land is now used to grow large scale rice. AND TEA. So if you think your rice is all that free of contaminants, those old pesticides lasted decades in your ground, in fact, concentrated and collected there with continued use over the decades. As recently as the last couple years there has been fairly wide publicity of the problem with tea, scientists suggesting that you limit your infusion and boiling to fewer minutes than you might like, because after a few minutes the concentration of heavy metals leaching out of the leaves into your kettle or cup goes dramatically up.

Sorry if I seemed a bit obtuse. It is true that somewhere in my past a durable sarcasm gene showed up and was passed along. In fact, my humour is already so dry that even Glyphosate might not dessicate it much further!

🤨 Nyeahhh Nyyeahhh

Sapeye2020
Sapeye2020 in reply to MarionP

Well these 2 long diatribes, I think, is a the fault of my mis-typed 'Good News ; which was supposed to be " Good News " ; so that both of you did NOT get MY sarcasm..... 👍😘

No worries mates, we all had a laugh. It is hard to make sarcasm leap of a page.

😱😱😱

Yes the Gly/R.UP problem sure is a mess, nay A pox upon us! All the unknown properties of a single molecule.

For our Forestry use it was because it trans-locates to the root and it (supposedly) stops there so you only get the target and don't have too many co-damaged. Except for the Mycelium that is the heart and veins of a forest, connecting every tree and shrub, etc in the vicinity.

I haven't used it since the 90's

rescuema, I did read Marion's history page so I was forewarned and suspected some skullduggery.

MarionP. you said " Today that same land is now used to grow large scale rice. AND TEA. " Kripes is there anything we regularly consume that isn't contaminated?

Thanks for the links and added info, it all adds up, eventually and we may find our answer..

MarionP
MarionP in reply to Sapeye2020

💩

Sapeye2020
Sapeye2020 in reply to MarionP

😜 Oh, it's a neat little Dog cookie...

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