Kinda following on from my previous post about high concentration ldopa supplements.
Several forum members - off the top of my head Strevenmast, ErnieDiaz, Cons10 (sorry if I got any of those wrong) - have reported good short (good symptom relief) and medium (for at least a year or more, and no nasty SE like sudden death or anything) term results from using high concentration ldopa supplements (Like the 99% product from nutravita).
My question, and it is a sincere question rather than an attempt to be provocative, is:
Is there any known or suspected additional risk associated with these doses (2 or 3 grams a day) over and above the ldopa that would be required if they were obtaining equivalent relief from CL?
(Let's assume for a moment that CL works for them as well as ldopa supplement).
As a consequence of there being no Carbidopa or benzaseride involved, the ldopa doses are a lot higher in the supplement case than the prescription med case.
I imagine that, for a given relief level, the same amount of ldopa is hitting the relevant area of the brain. Is that correct?
If that is correct, is the excess ldopa in the 3 gram scenario just being filtered off by the digestive system?
Or is there a risk (that we can conceive of) that the excess ldopa may cause some long term damage?
This is well in excess of my knowledge level and may veer into contentious LID territory (depending on which ldopa induced motor complication tjeory you subscribe to).
Any opinions welcome.
(I know there are some theories around the long term risks of Carbidopa use. I'm not really asking about that as it will cloud the issue here to the point where there are too many unknowns for me to think about this effectively)
My understanding is that the issue with levadopa as a long term problem, is to do with the levels of dopamine supplementation reached by that time, rather than the duration of prior supplementation
Diskinesia is the main one, and it manifests as a problem with cell grafts, both fetal and stem cell, as well as in high dose dopamine supplementation . That can be a combination effect as my Dad experiences. If he is overdosed and gets dyskinesia, reducing EITHER his Sinemet or his Rotogadine patch strength, fixes the problem.
Clearly there's no levadopa in the Rotogadine patch, so the levadopa per se is not the issue -its the dopamine level / dopamine activation that causes the side effect
The main issue with high dosage levadopa is going to be nausea - it's what was so exciting about Sinemet - and where it got its name (Sin="without" Emet="throwing up"). Someone like my Dad on 200/50 QDS would need 4 gm a day. Many people would feel really sick on that. Sinemet allowed the same level of dopamine to the brain with 1/5th the amount of levadopa
I'm taking about 16 Dopa Mucuna capsules ( approx 1 gm Ldopa)daily over 12 hrs. Never have had nausea, infact, nothing makes me nauseous...and I've used lots of different mucuna brands...very strange. I'm still not feeling that great, thinking of tweaking it up.
Would it make sense to buy in bulk and use a scale to measure the dose? I can't swallow pills anymore and opening capsules is a PITA so I try to find bulk supplements. Would like to know a source if anyone has one.
Hi Winnie. When i first started taking Sinemet I would get extremely sick to my stomach within 15 minutes. Two Neuros and two years later a young neurologist prescribed Sinemet ODT (Oral Dissolving Tablet) . I never had an upset stomach again.
"If that is correct, is the excess ldopa in the 3 gram scenario just being filtered off by the digestive system? "
Sort of. Close enough for Jazz. Levodopa is converted to dopamine via the action of a naturally occurring enzyme called DOPA decarboxylase. This occurs both in the peripheral circulation and in the central nervous system after levodopa has crossed the blood brain barrier.
So the levadopa not reaching the brain is converted into dopamine by the DOPA decarboxylase in the peripheral circulation. It's that dopamine in the bloodstream causes the nausea
WTP has probably helped refine the question a bit.
If we assume that 30% of the ldopa you ingest makes its way into rhe bloodstream, and then 20% of that gets to the brain, then:
- presumably the 70% that doesn't even get to the blood is nothing to worry about from a long term perspective?
- does the 80% of the 30% have the potential to cause long term issues?
My gut feeling is that it's probably totally fine and that the peripheral circulation dopamine ,(as WTP described) is of no significance other than potential short term discomfort, but I dunno.
Same answer, we will have to wait and see just like the doctors and pharma producers do. It’s not like the body is going to have to get rid of more foreign waste than it does with pharmaceuticals so I think I’m making a profitable decision considering the outcome awaiting me on the alternative treatment. I hope you understand my thinking 🧐
It’s a very good thought provoking question 🙋♂️. By the way I didn’t use any mucuna for the past three days and experienced no withdrawals (as far as it being addictive I don’t believe it). The Parkinson’s I am experiencing is tremor dominant on the right arm and I must confess your inquiry couldn’t have come at a better time, because while off the mucuna the tremor episodes were less severe. I’m thinking taking time off from levodopa wether natural or not will be beneficial.
I took 5 days off, only using essential oils, and no tremor. I did have slight drool issue and none of that on mucuna, so I'm using both now, I'm on a fairly low dose of mucuna.
I started with Franincense and black spruce, then went to Frank, Cedarwood, black spruce, black pepper, vetiver, and ginger together in a small bottle, then a few drops on the back of the neck and temples. Only use high quality oils. They can also be inhaled and diffused. I chose oils high in sesquiterpenes that can cross the blood brain barrier and oxygenate the brain. I used them straight but lots of people cut them with a carrier oil.
Can you tell me what 1 gram of Mucuna measures in teaspoons? I don’t have a scale.
Mucuna albeit probably not the concentrated version has been used for thousands of years in India. I had read it’s Neuroprotective unlike Sinemet which is a Neurotoxin.
Hi, buy this, it is essential. I own one which I use to weigh every capsule I take. I’m cutting back on the amount of levodopa from mucuna because Chris has a valid point he just seems to come across a bit biased.
Digital Milligram Pocket Scale 50 x 0.001g, Mini Jewelry Gold Lab Carat Powder Weigh Scales with Calibration Weights Tweezers, Weighing Pans, LCD Display amazon.com/dp/B07X1R442K/re...
The 1/8 teaspoon is what I started with because it gave me the best relief when I started experimenting with the nutrivita mucuna until I got the scale.
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