My Matrix stationary bike has a pre-programmed high intensity workout which lasts only 20 minutes, but includes eight intervals of 30 seconds in which I pedal as fast as I possibly can. I am a sweat drenched mess by the end and I have only used this particular program for a week, but I feel exuberant when I am done. I think it's better than trying to keep an even pace (15 mph or 80+ RPM) for an hour or two, which is primarily what I have done for the past year. I encourage you to try High Intensity Interval Training for at least part of your exercise routine.
"Polish researchers performed a study on 11 patients with mild to moderate Parkinson’s symptoms who did HIIT three times a week on a stationary bike for two months. Researchers found that HIIT stimulated the growth and function of nerves. By the end of the study, participants saw reductions in rigidity and stiffness, making it easier to move their arms and legs.
Researchers at the University of Alabama at Birmingham conducted a study introducing HIIT to older Parkinson’s patients. Biopsies of muscle tissue were collected from the participants before and after 16 weeks of 40-minute HIIT sessions. Not only did the researchers see improvement in skeletal muscle, the participants experienced improvement in their balance, muscle control, cognition and general well-being."
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jimcaster
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Does it have a HRM? Heart rate monitor. I use a treadmill with an incline that goes up to 15%. The rule of thumb is your maximum heart rate is 220 minus your age. Each sprint the heart rate must hit 90% of max by the end of each 30 second sprint. Then a 90 Second rest for a total of 8 sprints. This is Dr Mercola's protocol. Early videos he was doing it on a stationary bike. Later videos he changed to an Eliptical trainer. I met him at a medical conference. He said my treadmill HIIT workouts might cause injury. Maybe he's right; I needed Achilles surgery 3 months ago. It's recommended to do HIIT no more than once or twice a week. HIIT stimulates massive Growth Hormone response, according to Mercola.
You can get heart rate up with incline easily. Walking or biking. I presently do not bike after 30 years do to balance issues. I live in steep hills So I walk steep hills and work on core. Just started meds (C/L). If tremors improve I will return to biking. I’m 72 and can easily get my HR up to 155 no prob. By the way I use a OneStretch( on amazon) OR onestretch.com and highly recommend for plantar fasciitis and Achilles issues or avoidance of them. -passive stretching. Saved me an operation. Recommended by my surgeon.
Very, very few elderly PD in either of my support groups can get their HR up to 155 ("I’m 72 and can easily get my HR up to 155 no prob.")
Very, very few supposedly healthy people "can easily get my HR up to 155 no prob."
Typical max HR for a 70-75 year old is 130-135. Spending significant time at 155 means your resting HR must be down near 40. Rather unusual to say the least(!) for someone 72 who has PD with tremors and is walking up hills instead of running up them.
Why don't you define "easily" so I can ask around in one of my 2 groups if someone can reach it "no prob." I spent years at the elite national middle distance level and I don't remember 155 being reached "easily no prob".
By the way, 220 - your age is just a rough way of measuring your max but it means 148 is about max for a 72 year old.
Easily is walking/biking up very steep ascents. Walking =fast as possible. Biking= just get up ! Ha!
Well aware of that (220- my age)Alway s had a very high hr wen biking. At 11-12% (or higher) grade on a bike have hit 160 bpm on quite a few occasions and recently ( bout month ago). (Apple Watch and Garmin computers) I have friends that did same (and higher) and know it is very high. We were very serious riders for many, many years. My walking on steep inclines is not quite as high but still high 135-150 before taking Metoprolol. Hills again are very steep. Been biking for 30+ years at this level, rides averaged 50+ miles at min of 5,000.feet weekly at least. (Have ridden Mulholland Challenge 12,000 vertical ascent for 112 miles (at age 60) temps up to 105. Just the way I’m built, I guess. ( never competed, just love biking) By the way My resting heart rate is a lot higher than 40, never that low. Recently went on bp meds (metoprolol) which lowers hr of course. Spoke to my doc year ago and she says for short periods of time I’m ok pushing those limits and she is right. Spoke to my pre- Covid trainer as well and she agreed. Short periods of time being 5-10 minutes. Due to balance/tremor issues have stopped riding 4+ hour’s at 7- 20% extended grades. Was doing an hour a day up to 3 months ago riding 10 miles 1,000 ft ascent for past 2 years up to recently. Presently I try to walk 3 + miles a day with 3-4 ascents from 7% - 12% grades and 12% seems to be the ticket for very high hr which i shoot for. I do this 6-7 days a week now. I’m waiting to see if c/l will improve my balance and get back to biking hills again. Fingers crossed! But is what it is. Won’t subject myself or others to dangerous riding.
In full disclosure, I just went on C/L 3 weeks ago mainly for bad tremors and balance ( after 5 years since Dx) and carry 1 lb weights which help a bit with tremors (I keep switching positions). This has slowed me down (walking) but really push on steep ascents, tremoring no matter what. Bp med lowers hr at same intensity of course.
I was trained by riders hitting 200 bpm when we were 60! Monster cyclists.
So regardless what labs say, it is what it is. I’ve alway attributed my slow decline to my intense exercising regime, then diet and try my best to avoid stress. I take a host of supplements but really don’t know if they helped or not. Could be right or wrong, I dunno But I still exercise (walk+core) daily. Excuse typos or grammar as written on an iPhone.
As an elite middle distance runner who ran in 4 US Olympic trial finals (so I know a just little about the ins and outs of training protocols), I find your walking "performance" beyond 99.999% of 70-75 year old males I know or have heard about competitively unless you are injecting EPO and a peptide or two. Add in your recent bike performances. But you never competed. Strange. But you are claiming age group Cat 1 professional level performances! Wow. LaMond in old age or the reincarnation of Indurain.
Here is my problem with it all.
#1 Anyone who can walk (or even run) at 155 (easy no problem) for 45-60 minutes per workout at any age, flat or steep, means your max HR is somewhere near 220 because 155 "easy no problem" would fall into aerobic zone 2 (approximately 70% of max HR). You might occasionally "spike" to 155-160 for a minute or 2, but not over any significant period of time. At 70+ very few hearts are built for that stress.
#2 Therefore your proposed hypothetical 220 max HR on a BP med ( or not) at 72 is physically impossible. Period. And your use of a BP med tells me you aren't doing what you say your are doing! Come on. I'm a Ph.d. biochemist. Do you think I don't know what BP meds are for? Apparently you do. You don't go on BP meds if you are at an elite fitness level like you claim.
#3 Biking, which you admit is beyond you now, will never give you 155 now or ever because biking is usually 10% or more of a drop from your max HR running.
So your fantasy about you and a 60+ roadie "training" at 200 HR means your max HR was around 250-255at that time! Do you expect anyone like myself to actually believe it? Both of you professional Cat 1 riders at 60? Come on. You can't be serious.
#4 By the way, Anyone who bikes as much as you say you did, talks in terms of max wattage per minute and average wattage per ride recorded on their power meter. They talk about "strava" (look me up on strava sharon!). They talk in terms of feet of elevation climbed per ride Not hypothetical degree of inclines or "I did it once". Did I miss something?
Send me a link to your historical Strava performances. Otherwise your stories sound unbelievable to someone like myself.
I cast my one vote in favor believing PP can/could get his heart rate 155 because anyone who can type out that much content on an iPhone is a true athlete.
While I do not know what would be involved in PP’s exercise routine, nor, do I know what running middle distance at Olympic speed involves, having run 10, 7 minute miles, 6 days a week, and often 20 - 30 consecutive days, for 30 years, I feel qualified to weigh in on this. I do know none of us were eating Hostess Twinkies and drinking Coca-Cola.
I don’t believe the PP’s regimen or the data necessarily means that his resting heart rate had to be 40. Many lesser athletes have had that as a resting heart rate. Bjorn Borg, the famous tennis player of yesteryear, had a resting heart rate of 40 and playing tennis is nursery school compared to PP’s workouts or yours or mine.
5 years ago, when I was 69, working on a stationary bike at the gym, I routinely got my heart rate up to 175, so I have no trouble believing someone who rode 50+ miles at 5000 feet and rode 112 miles in 105° ascending 12,000 feet a few years ago and only a few months ago was riding 10+ miles uphill could/can get their heart rate up to 155. Nor, do I find his walking metrics I stretch.
Could the flaw in your assessment be due to the fact that you and I used the back of our legs and PP used the front of his legs?
#1 The average resting HR for an elite runner/biker such as both of you claim is 40-50 (Cooper) with the mode at 47, the average at 45.
#2 In general, highly fit runners/bikers have a higher VO2max and a slightly higher maximal heart rate than the average with genetics playing a very distinct role. So it is possible both of you are off the chars as world class age group athletes, but highly doubtful as you will see.
#3 VO2 max is ordinarily above 70 ml/kg/minute for a extremely well conditioned runner/biker in the 20-30 age group, info which neither of you provided or probably tested for. I'll assume neither of you are close to that "relative" level for your ages.
#4 At age 20-30, an elite such as you both, should test out at 195-200 max HR (Cooper) which is only slightly above the norm of 190. So, at 69-72 or so you might average 5 bpm higher than the norm of 150, or 155 max.
#5 Elites are more efficient in movement but not more than 5-7%.
Moving on.
Biking drops your Max HR 10% on average. So, for sake of discussion, at 69 your max HR was 151 running (220 - 69) minus 10% for biking or 136. Rough but let's go with it.
You claim a "routine" 175 into your late 60s (meaning it wasn't an abnormal spike) on a common gym bike which translates to a consistent CHRONIC stress overload of 28% above the average max or 25% above yours. (Or you have a truly unique, rare max HR.)
Now, let's assume you were on the BP med Metropol (like PP) , a well known beta blocker which typically drops your max HR 20-25%. So now we have your max HR at roughly 109 (assuming a conservative 20% drop).
Your "no problem" routine of 175 is now at an incredible 61% above what most would consider your max stress level. Starting to sound somewhat unrealistic?
In plain, simple English, well into your very late 60s you claim were running an incredible "national" masters level 15K every day of the week (or a sub 43:00 10K or a sub 1:10:00 10 miler). A national class age group performance not once, but every day. Or you could blow through a sub 21:30-21:40 5K any day of the week. Just cruising.
Do you know a 21:30 5K would have placed you 3rd in the 2019 USTAF 5K Nationals won in your age group (65-69) with a 19:26. (if you ran 21:30-21:40 at 70-74, you would have won your class).
I'm truly impressed. And with your PD motor dysfunctions so bad you needed a FUS brain surgery for years no less. Incredible.
I did not claim I was running well into my sixties. My running went from the time I was 30 y.o. until I was 60 y.o.
I said when I was 69, I could get my heart rate 175. Hardly miraculous as you portray it.
My resting heart rate during the period of my running was most often around 48.
Here is the problem with your response; you rely on data drawn from the general population (of athletes,) yet as much as you know, you should understand variation among individuals is enormous.
The data you site proves only that some people are outside the reference range. It does not prove nobody can be outside the range.
Perhaps you're lucky enough to be in communication with two of them.
You're questioning the veracity of my claim based on data. You should know better.
I worked with a personal trainer in my late sixties who continually badgered me against getting my heart rate to 175.
My PD motor function is so bad now I can barely run a few hundred yards.
Actually, you're questioning the wrong things. I said I do not know what is involved in running middle distance fast. I believe if you fully understood what running long distances 20 - 30 consecutive days involved, you would've questioned that.
Hi Sharoncrayn, could you not be so disrespectful and sarcastic. Once you stoop to this level in an attempt to win the argument, it becomes bad and it becomes hard to take you seriously anymore and get past it to read your stuff which does contain some useful nuggets of Information.
How can you mock MBAnderson with words that hurt like"i am impressed" and "Your motor symptoms were so bad that you needed FUS?". You are shaming MBAnderson with the very experience and procedure that he underwent recently and insinuating that if his information was really true, he would not have needed FUS! You have insinuated that FUS is something a very bad, last resort " i give up" kind of deal!
How could you possibly taunt a PwP like that? Even if everything that ParlePark and MBAnderson wrote was a lie, it doesn't give you the right to shame and ridicule them. I would daresay that you are insulting all of us by behaving in this manner. I am worried that when you use our own Information against us, people will be loathe to share their experiences with the community.
We suffer greatly on a a daily basis and we have good times and bad times. We don't need people like you assuming that we are somehow inferior today just because we will Parkinson's. In fact that is very outrageous because that is the same bu*****t that we have to put up with on a daily basis with ordinary folks who do not know better. But, you knew better, right?
Please issue an immediate and unqualified apology to both your these fine gentlemen, at least one of them having served in our nation's military. You should also apologize to the community.
My husband runs regularly and sometimes trains for half marathons. He is 53 yrs, 5'4" tall & no health problems except for low thyroid. He can sustain a heart rate of 170 for 20 - 30 min. On a recent run his heart rate averaged 158 and the maximum was 170 (but not at maximal effort). In preparation for half marathons he does a 12 week program and by the end of it his resting heart rate is 52; when not training it is 56. Data are from his fitbit; he has used other HR monitors in the past and thinks the fitbit is giving good readings. We've noticed the handgrip monitor on our Bowflex Max trainer does not give accurate readings much of the time.
Some more data - my husband recently upgraded to a Garmin which provides a 'fitness age' reading. Anyway, as I mentioned he is 53. His fitness age this morning was 29.
instead I find PP credible in a hilly context where he ran before the BP drugs also taking into account his athletic training. Sometimes the stories need to be contextualized to be better understood.
Sharon, before fully responding to your assertions, I have to express disappointment with your tone and approach to discussion. I respect that you've had family members affected by PD, but you currently are not suffering from the disease. The tone you have taken in your posts feels unkind, rude, and condescending. If you want to be part of this community and contribute - even if we, anybody disagrees - please take the time to do so in a respecting manner. We all have our own daily struggles and do not need more negativity.
To your points and requests:
Apologies for writing 200 BPM - that was a typo; I meant miles per day. Every Saturday (my friends and trainers, not me) did 200+ miles ( a day) in San Gabriel mtns. (Mt. Baldy -8600 ft ascent) and Santa Monica mtns ). They rode with Pete Penseyres (here is more info on Pete:
I not only never competed or did any sports in high school or college. I don't watch sports nor do I care about wattage or anything besides RPM on flats (92) and handling the ascents and distance without getting hurt or sick (we trained in heat). I've never raced or cared to - I'm simply an old dedicated cyclist. I've never used Strava (though I know what it is because my friends use it). But below are a few recent HR #'s from my apple watch as you asked for, I cannot copy and paste a .jpg into a reply..but will list a few max heart rates. While I am not an elite athlete, I know how to ride long distances with monster ascents in heat. I can't anymore because of PD. I actually shouldn't say that, hoping C/L will help tremors and balance and if so I'll be back to a much lesser degree.
For past 15-16+ years (last 2 years excluded) we often did Decker Canyon. Our HR was super high. Grade is 10+ for 1-3 miles. Decker was 1 of 3 hills we did every Saturday (or Yerba Buena or Latigo, Tuna Canyon, Las Flores, Cotharin, Deer Creek and many more, google them as these are beautiful, monster hills.) (Lance and all his buddies trained on many of these hills). HR was always super hi and no heart attacks. Group totaled around 25 including 5 surgeons for 12 years. Always rode minimum 50 miles with 5,000 vertical feet ascent min, often higher and longer for many years and many, many centuries.
I can appreciate your life experience and education, but that does not mean everyone else's perspective on this forum is wrong (which you assert many times in your posts). I initially posted as I believe it kept my PD rather mild all these years , and agreed by 2 very well respected MDS's from UCLA and USC, including my internist. But none of the above is the point I intended to make: my point is to motivate PWP's to the best of their abilities and how steep inclines have helped me and possibly help them.
I'm not selling anything here. Despite present bad tremors, some balance and other issues and symptoms, I'm doing pretty well all in all. No falls. With C/L I can walk a lot faster. Planning on Qi Gong if riding is delayed much more, as it has been of great benefit to another forum member and who has kindly availed his help which is greatly appreciated. There were a few days, very recently just before C/L I kinda froze (for lack of a better description) on a 12% incline 1/4 mile, walking after 3 1/2 miles of hills, I was in horrible back pain for first time. Why I went on C/L. I was and am very appreciative of 2 forum members that encouraged me to do so! They gave me honest and sage advice.
In my opinion Sharon, if you really want to help our community, you'll quit your condescending and negative comments. It is fine to disagree and offer medical, well researched, or even personal advice - but please think about the way in which you communicate that.
Should any forum member wish additional info, regarding bike fit, training at any level, equipment, fueling, anything pertaining to road cycling feel free to message me. Happy to answer best I can. Below are recent random Heart Rates
156,159,157,159,154 and 158. My Heart Rate Recovery is around 20 points in 1 minute.
Her posts have never demonstrated any degree of emotional intelligence whatsoever. When challenged on this, she either ignores it or throws her hands up in the air with a "who me? I am just providing information!" as if there's no way of doing so whilst being a little bit kind about it. Or as if she is delivering such gold info to us that we should just be thankful for her mere presence on account of her knowing literally everything about PD.
I am glad I am not a member of one of her support groups, though she may be more delicate in person.
Leaving aside this trivial discussion about HR, please use some caution when stressing your heart with an overly high HR for your age because CVD is highly correlated with PD. Not a good idea
Yes, I am fully aware that some rat studies claim BP meds will help reduce protein aggregates in the brain, (via a new autophagy process no less) but we are not rats, yet. Do BP meds cross the human BBB? I doubt it, but we really don't know.
Further, PD as a disease can impact your BP as well as can Sinemet and Rytary and common DAs. They can possibly lower your blood pressure negatively...as in hypotension.
If you are junking on stims to boost performance, be careful. All of them constrict your blood vessels. Bad news in older people.
Calculation of max HR on BP meds is NOT 220 - age (=148)
It is 162 - (0.7xage) = 111
Therefore 110-115 isn't even close to 200 for a 72 year old on BP meds regardless of how many hills you walk up unless your Garmin Forerunner or Fenix 6 with or without chest strap needs repair.
Using 220 minus age my max is 156. 90% is 140. Using a monitor on a treadmill or steep hillside I can sprint for 25-30 seconds. The monitor shows my heart rate between 135-142 for each of 8 sprints. I use two monitors and check that they each agree. 3 months ago I had surgery for a Haglund's Deformity. I'm still limping but am ready to get back to running. I've lived at 7000ft altitude in the Wyoming Desert for 35 years. I'm moving to Massachusetts and assume there are hills for training . If not I have the treadmill.
I've been a distance runner for 40 years. Because of work I was never able to train as hard or long as I wanted. Now that I'm retired I hope to revisit past races such as the Leadville 100-mile trail race. I made 5 failed attempts to finish it.
I tried HIIT a few years ago using the HIIT program on the Bowflex Max trainer. During the workout I would sometimes get a whole body flush which I think was due to nitric oxide release. I tend to generate a lot of NO; I have the 'vascularity' that bodybuilders seem to want for some reason (I think it is unattractive, so if I could give them my big veins I would). After I would sometimes feel euphoric. Unfortunately I started having bouts of angina at rest, only on the evenings when I had done HIIT training in the morning. I went to urgent care and everything checked out normal. I figured it was Prinzmetal angina and I would need to do a provocation test to get a diagnosis. It seemed easier and safer just to stop HIIT training and go back to steady state only. Disappointing since my fat distribution had seemed to start shifting to a more youthful pattern and the euphoria thing was nice.
I probably need some more shear stress, though, to prevent migraines and stroke (runs in the family). They say the dose makes the poison - so I'm thinking about just doing a sprint once a week and maybe going up to 2 sprints once or twice a week. The HIIT training experience I had was before I started using an HRV monitor; hopefully my HRV scores will let me know if I am doing too much.
Brad Stanfield had a video on HIIT vs ReHIIT & SIT. What was really interesting was the bit (9:13) about plasma volume changes. Shear stress is undoubtedly important but the plasma volume stuff leads me to wonder about the effect of sprints on aquaporin function.
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