HIV Anti-viral Drug Lopinavir–Ritonavir was a failure in Chinese COVID-19 Clinical trial

[sharoncrayn]

The Chinese admit per the NEJM article that the HIV anti-viral medicine Lopinavir–Ritonavir was a failure in their clinical trial (n=199) of this drug on "severe" cases.

#1 “it has no observable effect in stopping the virus”.

#2 adverse events were common and severe.

Unlike the study done by the French, the Chinese study involved only “severe” cases so it is possible, but perhaps unlikely, that HIV anti-virals can work with "asymptomatic" patients. In terms of the French study, we need to ask: "are malaria drugs such as hydroxychloroquine dissimilar to HIV drugs"? Yes, they are different but generally not as powerful. So, is their use strictly limited to low level infections?

My take from the Chinese CT and previous Chinese studies is that the HIV anti-viral class of drugs are not the answer.

Sharon

[sharoncrayn]

While I have a minute amongst my closings, I might add that for the US the test kits from Roche are all basically HIV-1 test kits. How valid those test kits are for COVID-19 is a question I don't think anyone has the definitive answer for right now. Time will tell.

Sharon

[Gioc in reply to sharoncrayn]

Sharon,

Here in Italy the only times I see the faces of the doctors engaged in the front line light up is when they talk about Tocilizumab which helps a little 7/10 serious patients but not too much, and they are trying all things. Today I heard on TV that anti-HIV drugs are not needed. The Italian test is based on the search for a specific sequence of the virus genome, it is repeated twice and even so do some false negative.

[WinnieThePoo]

The French study was small and"field hospital" in nature. It wasn't double or even single blind. But subjects were all "severe" and findings pretty unambiguous. Recovery times improved and period when infectious was better than halved.

[GymBag in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Do you know which virus it is that they use Amantadine as an anti-viral. ?

Is the world understanding that this virus is air borne and can ride on dust or smoke or airisole from a sneeze or are they still busy washing their hands like W.H.O. advises

[WinnieThePoo in reply to GymBag]

It is airborne, at short range, but all the research indicates it survives a long time on surfaces and the primary mechanism of spread in the community is hand to face. Airborne affects close gatherings in buildings but once you stop those hand to mouth keeps it spreading. I don't subscribe to the view that WHO are deliberately misinforming about this.

[GymBag in reply to WinnieThePoo]

I did not mean to infer that they were purposely misinforming. I think a lack of professional advise and having invested so much in that one game plan that worked before that they thought they had it right.

The difference this time may be the length of time it can stay in the air. I walked down our street for a bit of exercise and fresh air. The street was otherwise empty. Then I heard our neighbor across the road out on his front porch ,cough and then I smelled the smoke of his cigerete. Am I too close?

Then I descided I would move the stationary bike to the back yard which is enclosed on three sides by board fence and to the west a cedar hedge until I heard the whole family next door behind the hedge in their hot tub with water vapour coming off them and the hot tub while one coughed. Am I too close ?

[WinnieThePoo in reply to GymBag]

I think you are not too close. My understanding of the advice I have read is that it is spread by droplets in the air over a maximum 2m distance. It is considered that you need to be in close proximity for 10 minutes to have a significant risk. It has served me well in life to prefer experts over populists.

I have some direct experience in this regard. I stood outside chatting to my immediate neighbour a couple of weeks ago believing she had flu, so avoiding the usual bisous. She has been in hospital with covid 19 since. We chatted for a good 5 minutes at a distance of about 1m.

Worse, at about the same time I went to watch the rugby in a packed bar, kissing the owner, our friend, who had the virus then and is now in self isolation.

Yesterday I took delivery of some cardboard packing cases to enable me to return client files by courier, without visiting them. The delivery drivers wore masks. And gloves.

Take care and stay safe

[MarionP in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Droplets can travel and settle on surfaces, where they may survive to be touched and thus transferred.

[WinnieThePoo in reply to MarionP]

Yes. I've emphasised that point in several posts, and reinforced the importance of washing hands

[WinnieThePoo in reply to GymBag]

I think if I were a US citizen I would look to follow WHO advice and be unhappy with a president who disregards it. Italy is now seeing a slight slowing of the death rate. China has no new infections. But you need to catch this virus before it overwhelms the national healthcare resource. Italy has a very high standard of universal healthcare with far better capacity than the US, and maybe, just maybe has caught it in time with a bit of help from Russia. There has been a lot of surface sanitisation in that effort. google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com...

China imposed a lockdown and followed WHO advice when the cumulative death toll was 17. Italy at 463. France at 148. The USA is today 24 March at 557 deaths. Every day a lockdown is delayed the deaths grow exponentially.

[MarionP]

Well, that's that.