MUCUNA VS SINEMET

[drharp]

Can anyone simply answer this question? What is the equal amount of Mucuna Pruiens @ 98% compared to Sinemet 25/100? I have purchased a product from NutriVita with little instructions.

[MBAnderson]

100 mg of 98% L-dopa is (functionally) the same as 100 mg of Sinemet. You will be taking levodopa without the benefit of carbidopa or the rest of the Mucuna plant.

It is the rest of the Mucuna plant that causes the levodopa to be better absorbed, longer-lasting, and faster acting then is levodopa in Sinemet.

[MBAnderson in reply to MBAnderson]

In other words, levodopa molecules from Mucuna are identical to levodopa molecules from Sinemet so it doesn't matter where the levodopa comes from that makes a preferable therapy, what matters is what it is in combination with, i.e., carbidopa or the 400 other compounds in Mucuna.

[MBAnderson in reply to MBAnderson]

One last consideration. There is not complete agreement on whether or not it is the dose or duration of levodopa therapy that induces dyskinesia, but one theory with a lot of currency is that spikes of levodopa also induce dyskinesia and if a PWP is taking pure levodopa, as opposed to continuous or extended-release, they are getting a spike.

[MBAnderson in reply to MBAnderson]

Put yet another way, "98% pure levodopa from Mucuna Pruriens" is a marketing gimmick (as is 40% levodopa) to make you think it's higher-quality levodopa. 'The levodopa in Sinemet is synthesized in laboratory, but this stuff is extracted from MP, so it must be better.' Wrong. There are no MP plants that are naturally 40% levodopa. There may well be a ratio of levodopa to the other compounds in MP that cause MP to be a preferable therapy.

When (and if) I decide on levodopa therapy, I'll buy MP that hasn't been molested. If I felt I wasn't getting enough levodopa, I'd take more MP, not more levodopa.

[KERRINGTON in reply to MBAnderson]

Any suggestions to off set sleepiness that occurs in some of us from the whole MP powder ? Right now I take more MP when I will be home all day,and 98 % Nutravita, when I'll be out.

[MBAnderson in reply to KERRINGTON]

Go to YouTube and watch Saturday Night Live reruns.

Sorry, I don't. Are you sure your sleepiness is from MP because I think a lot of us have that issue. I get sleepy during random periods in the day, but fortunately it passes after 15 minutes.

[KERRINGTON in reply to MBAnderson]

Not all the time, but often enough. I get fatigue from PD, and tired from levadopa. It eventually passes.

[Cagey84 in reply to MBAnderson]

Hi Marc - if, as you suggest, levodopa from MP is absorbed faster, it's more likely to spike.

I don't agree about levodopa from MP. As far as I am aware there is no double blind head-to-head comparison to show the benefit of the whole MP plant vs Sinemet. There is some primate work suggesting less dyskinesia but not convincing IMO. Also, MP preparations don't always contain what they say (liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1... and are often unstable with potentially dangerous byproducts (nature.com/articles/srep11078).

The debate about when to start levodopa has moved on (michaeljfox.org/foundation/.... A very recent study (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/306... showed early and late start of levodopa therapy had no difference in dyskinesia.

A recent paper has suggested that more carbidopa would help stabilise levodopa presence, again making it likely to spike - n.neurology.org/content/ear...

Maybe I'm just a Sinemet-o-phile, but I'd rather know what I'm taking and how much.

[MBAnderson in reply to Cagey84]

Cagey84, I've only got a few minutes now, so I'll comment more later, but I've got a question. I've had PD for 10 years and take no pharmaceuticals for it. Let's say I begin Sinemet next month and when I do, I would, of course, try and take as little as possible. Do you think it likely that I will be at a lower dose when I start than where a person is after they've been taking it for 10 years?

I am not clear what you're referring to when you say, "I don't agree with you about levodopa from MP." Are you saying the levodopa is of the different quality or are you saying 100 milligrams of levodopa in Sinemet is different than 100 mg of 100% pure levodopa from MP?

[MBAnderson in reply to Cagey84]

The flaw in the “it doesn’t matter when you start” argument is that the studies don’t apply to us as individuals. The best example of that is the issue at hand, i.e., the sub-Saharan Africa study, in addition to those you site, conclude that it is not the duration of the therapy, but the dose that induces dyskinesia (read; and so it doesn’t matter when I start levodopa therapy) yet there are several hundred thousand PWP who have been taking a constant, minimum dose of Sinemet have gotten dyskinesia after a few years and all the major PD organizations say so.

Yes, it is true that there are some PWP who can take a minimum dose of Sinemet indefinitely and not get dyskinesia, but that’s not true of every PWP. I don’t take Sinemet because I MAY be part of the minority cohort that does get dyskinesia from a minimum dose in short time.

There are no studies about any illness in which the claim can be made, “if you take this drug, XYZ will happen” or “if you take this drug, XYZ will not happen.”

Anybody who takes a minimum dose of Sinemet on the belief that they will not get dyskinesia because the studies or their neurologists or the discussions on this forum say so, may be in for a rude awakening.

You can’t get the side effect if you’re not taking the drug.

[MBAnderson in reply to Cagey84]

I do totally agree with you that you cannot know how much levodopa you're getting, you can't know what's in the capsule, and there is not good data. From what little data there is and from anecdotes on this forum, it does seem to be faster acting, longer-lasting, and with less dyskinesia.

[Cagey84 in reply to MBAnderson]

Hi Marc - I'm not saying the chemical levodopa is different in MP and Sinemet; it's exactly the same. I'm also not denying that levodopa is involved in dyskinesia. The data points to

- whether started early or late, the point at which dyskinesia develops is the same. That's why I'm happy to have started earlier as my quality of life has been higher.

- levodopa from MP is variable and unstable. That's why I prefer Sinemet, particularly as I think it's so important in the context of both symptom relief and dyskinesia development.

And you can know what's in the Sinemet capsule as it's a licensed medicine and as such has to comply with pharmaceutical standards of quality, stability and shelf life; unlike MP preparations.

[MBAnderson in reply to Cagey84]

Good points. I agree. I was only wanting to make the point that newly diagnosed people who are contemplating levodopa understand that even a small dose they can get it.

[KERRINGTON in reply to Cagey84]

I think if you research and buy MP from a good company the results are consistent. I use Banyan, Nutrivita & Solaray. The time they take to work, and last is quite consistent, and predictable, at least for me.

[Juliegrace]

According to my measurements on a jeweler's scale, 1/32 of a teaspoon equals 100mg of levodopa. That is of the Nutrivita brand.

[marcet in reply to Juliegrace]

What quality of the Nutrivita brand ?

[Juliegrace in reply to marcet]

The 98% l-dopa.

[drharp in reply to Juliegrace]

Do you use mucuna?

[Juliegrace in reply to drharp]

I tried it; I don’t currently use it.

[Hidden]

If you look back to four days ago, I asked this exact question and received 54 replies from a people that offered their opinions, from this site.

[MBAnderson]

16 Positive & Negative Effects of L-DOPA (Levodopa) + Side Effects

Feb 4, 2019, Self-Hacked

More good information.

selfhacked.com/blog/l-dopa-...