N acetyl-cystiene Can it cause dizziness?

[etterus]

I have been taking 600 mg of N acetyl-cysteine for a week. This am I'm experiencing rather disturbing dizziness plus fatigue. I feel like I need my Nordic poles to walk around the house. Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

[silvestrov]

I have not experienced dizziness and have been taking NAC for years...I think about 3. My dose has ranged from 600 - 1800 mg/day and I currently take 1,200 mg/day. PD is a crazy disease and everyone seems to experience different reactions to supplements and meds.

Here is a link to NAC side effects:

drugs.com/sfx/nac-side-effe...

What are you taking with NAC?

[etterus in reply to silvestrov]

Currently c-l dopa 25/100 every 2 hours, klonazapam .25 every 4-6 hours. I don't have tremors.... PIGD. DBS in Globus pallidus.

[silvestrov in reply to etterus]

Here is an interesting article that references PIGD (from page 2):

"The study showed that another type of intestinal bacteria ― Enterobacteriaceae ― was linked to the severity of postural instability and gait difficulty (PIGD). These bacteria were significantly more abundant in patients with a PIGD phenotype than in patients with tremor dominant (TD) phenotype."

medscape.com/viewarticle/84...

[silvestrov in reply to etterus]

I know you have not had time to read the above article so please excuse my hypothesizing (and accept my apology) for answering your question about NAC (and why you are feeling dizziness and fatigue).

This is pure up in the air thinking and I just want to throw the info at you as a sort of thought project.

You have PIGD which is associated with enterobacteriaceae, gram negative bacteria. GN bacteria have endotoxins:

"Endotoxins are part of the outer membrane of the cell wall of Gram-negative bacteria. Endotoxin is invariably associated with Gram-negative bacteria whether the organisms are pathogenic or not. Although the term "endotoxin" is occasionally used to refer to any cell-associated bacterial toxin, in bacteriology it is properly reserved to refer to the lipopolysaccharide complex associated with the outer membrane of Gram-negative pathogens such as Escherichia coli, Salmonella, Shigella, Pseudomonas, Neisseria, Haemophilus influenzae, Bordetella pertussis and Vibrio cholerae."

textbookofbacteriology.net/...

And enterobacteriaceae are gram negative bacteria:

"Enterobacteriaceae (Gram Negative Bacilli) - Salmonella, Escherichia coli, Yersinia pestis, Klebsiella and Shigella, Proteus, Enterobacter, Serratia, and Citrobacter."

When gram negative are exposed to antibiotics they start to die off and the patient experiences the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction:

"The Jarisch–Herxheimer reaction is a reaction to endotoxin-like products released by the death of harmful microorganisms within the body during antibiotic treatment."

"Typically, the death of these bacteria and the associated release of endotoxins or lipoproteins occurs faster than the body can remove the substances. It usually manifests within a few hours of the first dose of antibiotic as fever, chills, rigor, hypotension, headache, tachycardia, hyperventilation, vasodilation with flushing, myalgia (muscle pain), exacerbation of skin lesions and anxiety."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaris...

And N-acetylcysteine has bacteriostatic (stops the growth) activity:

"NAC inhibited growth of both gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

And,

26 Appendix: Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction

"For example, the use of NAC (Acetylcysteine) or EDTA has been

reported to produce a worsening of symptoms or JHR. These two anti-biofilm compounds break down biofilms exposing pathogens to the immune system; they do not directing kill any pathogens."

lassesen.com/cfids/HerxInfo...

Biofilms are 'gated communities' for bacteria and are protected from the immune system:

"A biofilm is any group of microorganisms in which cells stick to each other and often these cells adhere to a surface. These adherent cells are frequently embedded within a self-produced matrix of extracellular polymeric substance (EPS)."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biofilm

If you have every felt a kinda 'slimy' feeling in your mouth, that is a biofilm colony of bacteria.

colgateprofessional.com/pat...

What I am suggesting is obvious, your PIGD is caused by gram negative enterobacteriaceae bacteria and the addition of NAC has possibly exposed them to your immune system and you are feeling negative feedback which includes, anxiety and dizziness (though not listed above it is listed on other sites).

_________________________________________________________________________

How can you test this hypothesis? Stop taking NAC and then take enterically coated allicin. Enteric coated supplements/drugs have capsules that are coated with a substance that protects the supplement from being dissolved in the stomach so it can be delivered into the small intestine - the site of a possible enterobacteriaceae colony.

Allicin is the from garlic and it is has potent antibiotic effect on bacteria:

Allium sativum (garlic)--a natural antibiotic.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/636...

And allicin has potent activity against enterobacteriaceae bacteria:

______________________________________________________________________

Inhibition of Enterobacter cloacae and Klebsiella oxytoca by Garlic (Allium sativum L.) and Garlic Pills

"This study trialed an ancient cure, Fresh Garlic Extract (FGE) created from garlic (Allium sativum L.) and commercially prepared garlic pills against two opportunistic Enterobacteriaceae in vitro utilizing: disc diffusion, well diffusion (introducing DIFF-bolts), and HPLC. FGE and four brands of garlic pills inhibited the growth of Enterobacter cloacae and Klebsiella oxytoca in vitro. General Nutrition Center (GNC) brand were found to be the most effective garlic pills producing comparable clear zones to meropenem (carbapenem antibiotic) for both bacteria. Garlicin produced the next largest clear zones followed by Garlique and Nature made. Five out of nine garlic pill brands tested were not found to contain viable allicin failing to produce clear zones in all microbial tests."

benthamopen.com/FULLTEXT/TO...

_________________________________________________________________

If you quit NAC and feel your normal self then start taking enteric coated allicin (and start to feel sick again), including dizziness and anxiety, you may be experiencing a Herxheimer reaction (from the die off of enterobacteriaceae bacteria and their endotoxins). This is my hypothesis as to why you are feeling negative symptoms from taking NAC.

How long does the JH reaction last?

"The symptoms of the Herxheimer Reaction can be most severe. Usually die off lasts only a few hours, though it can last several days, and may, in severe cases, be maintained for weeks."

mdjunction.com/forums/lyme-...

__________________________________________________________________________

I certainly do not want to see you become (temporarily) ill after taking a supplement like allicin, but I wonder what would happen to you PD symptoms if a bacteria associated with PIGD had its numbers decreased in your small intestine?

Again, I apologize for this hypothesizing but I am trying to put forth a reason why NAC made you feel worse - others on this site have used it and did not exhibit your symptoms.

Here is the end of my thought project.

Rich

PS.

"Thus, GNC 1100 was found to exhibit slightly higher efficacy during microbial testing than GNC 1000 and therefore, may be worth the additional cost to the consumer."

"GNC 1100 were the most effective pills, and their enteric coating may confer viability in vivo."

gnc.com/GNC-Herbal-Plus-Odo...

Is allicin neuroprotective in PD models, yes:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/260...

[Islandhappy in reply to silvestrov]

this is difficut for me to process. have started NAC a few weeks ago. replacing glutiathione supplements. feeling very weird. in your experience, wouldit be better to stop taking the NAC and take the Allicin. have had the slimy mouth for about 4 months.Duke just completed a study on the gut brain connection. and apparently the a syneuclins in the brain come from the gut!

[silvestrov in reply to Islandhappy]

Sorry for the late response but I have been overwhelmed by work.

NAC raises glutathione levels in the liver and if you have a bad reaction to it there are other supplements which raise GSH levels in a similar manner - though NAC has been one of the few substances which has improved the condition of dopaminergic nerve terminals.

Silymarin from. Milk thistle is both good for the lover and has shown to neuroprotective in PD models. I have noted the combination of alpha lipoic acid and acetyl l carnitine raise GSH levels & like MT, it is neuroprotective in PD models.

The main reason why I recommended enterically coated allicin is because it has antibiotic like properties and since your condition improved on an antibiotic and I am theorizing allicin mightdo the same.

If NAC does not work for you, everyone seems to have a different reaction to supplements/drugs, try the above supplements especially allicin.

I take copious amounts of supplements with no pro-oxidant effects. Meaning, my body has higher antioxidant needs because my body was damaged from exposure to chemicals. It is safe to say if you frequent this site your antioxidant needs are greater than an average person.

PS. Allicin does seem to effect glutathione leels inan endothelial cell experiment:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/190...

[Islandhappy in reply to silvestrov]

Thanks. I noted that nac needs to be taken earlier in day. I am now adding nad to 5htp, mucuna, wild green oat ext., in am.

[park_bear in reply to silvestrov]

Good stuff, Rich. NAC does many interesting things, among them being a mucolytic, an antidote to liver toxicity, and it relieves prostate inflammation.

I take 400mg 2x/day. One adverse effect I have experienced is it thins out my already deficient saliva making me more prone to cavities.

[etterus]

I've already contacted my DBS programmer and MDS with their opinions that the NAC can cause my complaints.... but they didn't suggest your Indepth analysis and plan of action. I will give it a try and keep you posted. It's the least I can do to show you my appreciation for your insights.

[silvestrov in reply to etterus]

I know it is an elaborate hypothesis but I felt the the information was relevant to your PIGD/PD condition. The prevalent theory for the origination of PD is that it starts in the gut and enterobacteriaceae reside there :

Parkinson's disease may begin in the gut

Parkinson's disease begins in the gastrointestinal tract, large study indicates

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Your doctors would probably laugh at my medical hypothesis but it was a thought project and it is good to stretch the neurons a bit time to time.

Best wishes and have a good week.

Rich

[SELFMeder]

I am taking 800mg of NAC per day as well as an NAC infusion every 2-3 wks.

No noticeable side effects.

Do you exercise regularly?

[Lolga]

Hey did it dissappead? I also experience this

[Stazina]

NAC can cause both of your symptoms of dizziness and fatigue, you can just stop taking it and see if you improve. You've only been taking it for a week and there's no withdrawal. It's not worth taking if it makes you feel lousy.