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“N95 Masks vs. KN95 Masks: Which Face Covering... - CLL Support
“N95 Masks vs. KN95 Masks: Which Face Coverings Should We Be Wearing Right Now?”
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Lavinia-Blue
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I rarely use n95 masks , instead I wear masks that have 2 layers of fabric and a PM2.5 carbon filter inside. I have not gotten COVID.
But I do wear a mask every time I go out. My boyfriend wears a n95 mask every day when he goes out and he has not had COVID either.
You have been very lucky. We wore masks all the time. Any family members entering the house wore masks. In the beginning we locked down completely when the country opened back up we still didn’t go too many places just doctor visits yet my husband caught Covid. He then gave it to me. I personally have conflicting views on masks.
Part if the problem is, people,can pick up viruses in their eyes an on their hands. Plus transmit them throughout a building, where many of them can be infectious for at least a short time.
The basic masking was to stop others from spewing their germs into the air/onto surfaces. Especially since few carry handkerchiefs to sneeze or cough in to, they just spew it out into the open nowadays.
So us immune co promised wear respirator masks to filter out the majority of it. But unless you are covering your eyes, and leaving shoes/outer clothing outside, you maybe spreading a bit around in your house. I wear a hat when outside always, I have terrible pollen allergies & this kept it out of my hair and ultimately off my pillow & other furniture. Now my old "anti pollen" habit stops me from spreading the winter respiratory viruses around.
The eyes were covered at one point by plastic shields, yet they were not hermetically sealed. I remember hospitals did not require the shields if I wore my reading glasses...also not much of a seal for my eyes. The truth is these masks keep out very small particles, but the covid virus is small enough to penetrate the holes in the mask.
Plastic shields are next to useless other than blocking direct spray, as the suspended viral particles can drift around in the air for hours, so will eventually move around any shields.
Viral particles exhaled are generally in much larger droplets of moisture/mucus, which are easily blocked by respirators. If an N95 mask lives up to its claimed filtering capability, it is still reducing the viral load you are receiving 20 fold, with just 5% getting through.
Neil
Shepherd777 -
Most N95, KN95, KF94, FFP3, and FFP2 masks do indeed prevent virus from passing through, because they do prevent particles that small. The engineering problems have been solved. What remains is Quality Assurance, fit, and breathability.
I use the Mask Nerd as my expert - Aaron Collins. He's a mechanical engineer with the equipment at his house to test aerosols.
asme.org/topics-resources/c...
He has a YouTube channel that shows his methods, and discusses design nuances, and mask hacks:
He does speak quickly, so I slow down the playback.
He also publishes his test data freely online, which often includes size info:
docs.google.com/spreadsheet...
Most non-counterfeit N95, KN95, KF94, FFP3, and FFP2 masks exceed their filtration rating by far if properly fitted. Fit and breathability are what we need to look at.
=seymour=
My concern about the masks worn during covid was that the N95 was not readily available and not being handed out before entering hospitals and medical facilities, but a flimsy cloth mask. This implied the cloth masks were fine. The same was handed out at Walmart and other grocery facilities leaving the impression that one should buy these for themselves before your next trip. So many wore the cheap versions and were ushered in without a pause. Like wise the N95 masks when available were not fitted nor were they often certified as the real McCoy.
Shepherd777 -
I totally agree. Even now, hospitals in the U.S. hand out surgical-looking masks (with just ear loops instead of ties). Plus, as you note, counterfeit masks flooded the market.
That's why I like Mask Nerd. He points a lot of this out, and shows how to fit, and how to tell counterfeits. He lists legitimate sources of quality masks on his spreadsheet.
=seymour=
SofiaDeo -
I think the eyes as source of infection are less common, since mouth and nose suck in much greater quantities of viral particles. But it's been a continuing question throughout the pandemic. There's certainly anecdotal evidence of infection via eyes, which is different from infectious symptoms in the eyes, but acquired via nose or mouth.
There's also been studies in healthcare settings that attempt to show that eye protection in addition to masks or respirators helps. Often the type of eye protection is not completely specified - it can be shields, goggles, or even eye glasses. Even in healthcare settings, some workers relax their protection at times, which confounds statistics.
I wish I could point to a well designed study that mentions specific eye protection products or methods of measuring like I can with masks.
The issue of infectious virus on clothing is even less well documented. The type of fabric plays a large role, I think, largely due to minute static electrical effects that can attract and hold virus, and molecular forces that can tear apart RNA. I think the technical term is fomites. Infectious virus on surfaces has been much more documented because of the need to disinfect healthcare settings. Yet the actual statistical liklihood of infection via fomites on surfaces in other settings is much less certain. The problem is that healthcare settings get many more viral particles.
Finally, how much effort is a given prevention worth for a given documented caseload in a community? At what point, if ever, do we say take the masks off completely? I watch my state ILI (Influenza-Like-Illness) statistics. which are always a week behind. But such stats do not represent my risk going to a store in my neighborhood or my wife's risk where she teaches. A cruise ship load of infected people could dock any day in New Orleans (an issue with the norovirus going around). Where might I run into such people or into people that run into such people? Restaurants.
So for my case for now, having just finished a triple drug treatment that has almost completely eliminated all my normal B-cells along with CLL cells, I still mask when indoors, and don't go many indoor places outside of home. We had a meal at a local restaurant last night to celebrate my 69th birthday, and were seated away from others in a room with high ceilings where we could feel the air conditioning. I still put my mask on when the busboy approached. The waiter masked. That's the first indoor restaurant meal we've had together (other than the cafeteria at M.D. Anderson) since early in the pandemic in 2020.
=seymour=
I agree there isn't a lot of data, and I am going based more on what I personally have experienced. Back before computers did a lot of things that humans had to do.
When I worked in a microbiology lab back then, the SOP was to wear a goggle that had side shields in addition to wearing gloves when handling specimens that were received in the lab. These specimens were taken from the receiving area to a biological safety cabinet for grinding, pipetting, or swabbing across agar plates that were then incubated. Anything growing on the plates, as staff re-plated onto specific media, or placed antibiotic disks on healthy large colonies to test for drug sensitivities, also wore eye protection of some sort.
Anyone ill/coughing worse surgical masks around the lab.
SOP for researchers (I worked at a university associated hospital, so knew a bit about the goings-on in research) working with known lethal pathogens wore hair coverings, shoe covers, goggles, disposable surgical gown and surgical masks. I think the concern was more "large droplets" from an error, because they also worked with these agents in a biological safety cabinet.
The early Covid studies, I noted that a discernable amount of virus was recovered from the staff shoes after testing when coming out of the room. And the viral material was spread at least a short distance. No one tested if it was viable, though. I take this more as "take precautions" than "you'll definitely get sick." When there was a small MRSA outbreak in the neighborhood next to a national forest, everyone thought the bumper crop of mice being supported by the bumper crop of piñon, were the source of it. My neighbor with CLL got it, my partner got it, I didn't , but got it later (think dirty house was the source).
health.clevelandclinic.org/...
So with my working around infectious disease where no one got ill taking reasonable precautions, and my seeing how people who spent more time in the woods where mice with MRSA were, I am more "take precautions when around potential infections." But I didn't stop walking in the woods, I just made sure things were cleaned, hands got washed, etc.
IMO if people would wear a surgical mask when ill or around immune co promised people, and immune compromised wear respirators & possibly take a few extra precautions (goggles on a windy day), take off their shoes at the door (curiously, I read many Americans don't) & wash their hands, anything infectious should be minimized.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
bjo.bmj.com/content/105/9/1190
SofiaDeo -
My daughter worked at a hospital lab as an assistant for 6 months during the pandemic. She had many stories of personnel ignoring protective equipment mandates - lack of gloves and masks while handling culture samples. Almost nobody wore eye protection.
You might find this Reddit group interesting for both the questions, photos, and comments from Medical Lab Professionals about what they see in real life and the problems they face:
reddit.com/r/medlabprofessi...
I like to point out that while culturing SARS-CoV-2 virus requires a BSL3 lab, taking swab samples only requires a mask, eye protection, and gloves. Often we see healthcare workers do without the eye protection, especially at drug stores in the U.S.
cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc...
Interim Guidelines for Collecting and Handling of Clinical Specimens for COVID-19 Testing
Updated July 15, 2022
I think that standards for BioSafety Levels 2 through 4 are based on theory and anecdote more than statistical review and validation of methods in large groups of workers. It's just so hard to do that.
phe.gov/s3/BioriskManagemen...
The pandemic did move things forward from theory to validation in some areas, but there's still more to do. In the mean time, workers need to be protected, even if some are too casual about it.
=seymour=
The article states that the N95 should be worn once or twice and discarded. I find that I can wear the 3M Aura Particulate Respirator 9205+ N95 about 5 times if not in densely populated spaces but after the fifth wearing the rubber straps break, preventing longer use by the manufacturer.
I do toss them immediately after a doctor visit with waiting room and maybe an elevator so the lifespan of the N95 in that scenario might be 20-45 minutes. So I buy the 20 pack online because I am a dedicated mask wearer.
I stopped wearing mask after my 4 Covid infection in a 12 month period , since then I have only 2 covid innfections in 18 months.
You had 6 covid infections so far?
Yep, hospitalised with delta because of PE as I am on Acalabeutinib and Platlets are 117 ish, covid does lower platlets thus needed to be monitored for PE
Amazing. I'm glad you are still with us!
Covid part of normal life, wife travels a lot of planes, I am 60 and "retired", if u count been a full time dad to my 6 and 4 Yr olds.
Since the medical world can't be sure that covid doesn't cause long term damage in susceptible individuals or cause long covid, I shall continue to wear my Aura 3M mask in indoor high risk settings with other people .I don't want covid or RSV or flu or a cold and if a mask keeps me from getting any of those, I will keep my mask on.
Kate
Two resources that can be helpful in this space, compiled by people with scientific backgrounds and non-profit / non-advertising motives:
1) The "Mask Nerd", a fairly rigorous engineering measurements guy who physically tested most masks on the market during COVID masking:
docs.google.com/spreadsheet...
2) Project N95, a non-profit that vetted sources and suppliers against government-released testing records. The project has wound down in 2024 but has links to suppliers still active for masks approved.
I've had good luck with the Harley L-288s - foldable, well-fitted with flexible nose clip and head straps, among the highest filtration rates, good breathability for an N95, not crazy expensive, looks OK.
I would not trust any journalist referring you to Amazon for procurement in this space. Amazon has a lucrative affiliate referral program (which is why Rolling Stone likes to send you there), ineffective supply chain monitoring, and zero quality assurance. Counterfeits and misleading / lying assertions about government approval abound.
For similar reasons I prefer N95s. I'm sure there are decent KN95s out there, but I don't trust the approvals process to sort them out.
scryer99 -
I'm a huge Mask Nerd fan. See my reply to Shepherd777 on this thread for additional links to his YouTube channel, which is less frequently updated these days.
=seymour=
Hello Lavinia-Blue
The difference between N95 and KN95 is the N95 is US standard and the KN95 is Chinese non-US standard. Fit is most important. Whereas it is very true that the covid virus is much smaller than the opening in face masks, that is not the whole story. You might view face mask filter as similar to air exchanger filter which becomes clogged over time even though the dust molecules are smaller than the filter openings. The molecules random passage through the filter will trap some percentage of debris. As the debris builds up it will trap more and more debris. The 95 in N95 respirator is the percent of particles filtered out by mask. As your mask trapes moisture inside the mask it actually increases the effectiveness of mask but reduces the passage of breathing. Having said all that, masks are not perfect but better than nothing.
Big_Dee -
Masks can be darn near perfect - 99.x%. One can even buy an N100 if need be, but short of bone marrow transplant chemo, which eliminats almost all white blood cells, including neutrophils, monocytes, and plasma B-cells, I can't think of a situation where I might need that extreme.
=seymour=
I have three kinds of masks I wear, some made by me with two layers of fabric and a filter layer between. They are washable and re-usable. But I understand that the COVID virus and most others die within 24 hours on the surface of the masks. So I let each mask I wear sit for a week or more before I wear it again. But I re-use N95 masks and surgical masks until they look dirty. I am a reduce-reuse-recycle fanatic.
Masks are better than nothing, viral load is also a factor—less is best.👍😷
Thank you for the post. I still wear a mask whenever I'm in indoor public spaces. I wear the 3M N95 mask in the article. I think the fit is nearly as important as the type of mask. I have a narrow nose and a skinny face and this style mask works much better for me than the "round" ones. This 3M mask actually has foam across the nose wire and that makes it much easier to seal it from leaks. I have not had COVID but my husband and I live a pretty isolated life so I can't credit the mask completely.
We wear the KN95 masks and have yet to catch Covid. We also run air cleaners in our home 24/7. In the early times of the Covid pandemic, I read a book about the Spanish flu and realized that having CLL put me at risk. So, we made massive changes in our life.
We all stayed home and only interacted with others outside our household rarely or outside. We ordered everything. Our main contact with the world were doctor appointments and sailing by people on our bikes.
Now, we wear masks if we are inside near people outside our household. I went with my husband last night for his MRI, scheduled at 8:40 pm on a Saturday night! We were the only ones there except for five medical staff.
We reuse our masks but only a few times and let them dry between uses.
Patti
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