Hi CLL family, I am curious to know (for my own data) if any/all of you that have been diagnosed with CLL have had or have a root canal? The reason I ask is because as well know this is a disease that is fighting infection. I went to a biological dentist yesterday and he did a THOROUGH viewing of my teeth including a cone beam scan (3d) of my teeth. I have two root canals and 4 cavitation's (pockets of my removed wisdom teeth). What really blew my mind was he scraped my root canaled teeth with the hook tool that is used to scrape plaque and put it under a microscope on a big screen in front of me and the bacteria i saw was alarming but even more interesting was he pointed out the clumps of white blood cells that were "blocking" the moving creatures aka bacteria. It was so remarkable and interesting to see my WBC's fighting. He did tell me that my root canals were showing infection but not abscessed. I have had those root canals since I was 17 and 23 ( I am now 46). My thought process and deep intuition is that my body has been fighting these silent, gradual infections and now that I am aging and going through the "change of life" my hormones are also changing and my immune system is weary. The dentist also said that although the infections were not "life threatening", seeing the WBC's fighting takes a lot of energy from the immune system 24/7- 365 days a year. I'm no doctor nor dentists and I know this may sound out of the common dental practice we all know, and are familiar with, however, I feel that this may be my issue and contributing factor. This whole thing came on after I had a severe case of COVID which taxed my immune system in August 2021, I was diagnosed immediately after that bout. So my immune system was in serious overdrive. Please let me know in the comments if you have had root canals and if you have experienced adverse symptoms either mild or severe. I am just curious as I go on this healing journey. I am by nature a researcher and "think outside the box" person. So this is for my own personal study as I proceed to get my root canals extracted and cavitation's cleaned out. Thank you for your feedback in advance.
CLL and Root Canals: Hi CLL family, I am curious... - CLL Support
CLL and Root Canals
wow….never even heard of a ‘biological’ dentist….must be rare to find or in geographical localities? Sounds as if a great idea based on your findings!
Yes, it is indeed difficult to find one. The closest to me is in the Bay Area and the next one is in Portland , Oregon . I stumbled across some invaluable information on the Oregon dentist’s Instagram page along with some detailed info and graphic images of extracted root canaled teeth with very apparent bacteria (black roots). This information has changed the trajectory of my personal view in dentistry and more so my current condition. I go for extraction and cavitation surgery in April. I will wait a few months after to see what my bloodwork looks like. I’m staying optimistic.
I have a couple of old root canals. One of them developed an infection of which I didn't feel. By an older x ray I have had this infection a few years.
I had the tooth extracted and in the process am having an implant. I feel so much better. I think it was draining on my energy level.
I picked a new dentist.
Interesting. I’m glad you were able to get that handled
just be sure you ask if premedication with antibiotics is needed, especially having CLL.
Best of luck!
Will do. Thank you
Interestingly we had a presentation at my local LBC group by a haematological dentist. Well I think that was her title! Here in Aotearoa NZ we have this but barely any dermatologists and we are miles behind in terms of first line treatments!she was lovely and it was very informative but just wondering about priorities here….it’s probably something to do with availability but seems a bit odd to me?
A bit different for CLL since 2015 currently stable with no med. Stage 4 Prostate Cancer metastasized since 2020 . Several chemis now getting Keytruda numbers good but xgiva for bones has caused recent osteonecrosis resulting in exposed bone surface in lower jaw. Had root canal before first oral surgery to deal with bone tooth did not make it just had 2nd oral surgery and molar removed. Bone biopsy was negative for cancer in jaw but bone in area is dead.
I have had 2 root canals one about 10 years before being diagnosed with CLL . In that case the tooth needed to be extracted 2 years later I did not have it replaced as I am a bad dental patient and couldn't handle impressions. I was diagnosed with CLl in 2008 but it has not so far progressed much and I have never had treatment. The second root canal treatment was in 2019Dave
If my husband has any invasive dental work I always make sure the dentist gives him a course of antibiotics
I have been battling with my dentist/oral surgeon. They refuse to take out my root canal. The oral surgeon said it was like asking to have my perfectly good foot cut off. I told him that it was a dead tooth and I never should have gotten the root canal in the first place. I did get a referral outside my provider but I know that I will be set back a couple of thousand dollars if I do it that way. I don't even know for sure if the new oral surgeon would actually remove the root canal or not. Right now the money isn't feasable. I would love to get this tooth out and see if my CLL goes away.
Check out Blodgett dental on Instagram or google
Pulling a tooth costs thousands of dollars? I would bet the house that your CLL will not go away if you have a tooth pulled
I had root canals done. Later one got infected. Cleaned out, replugged. A course of antibiotics helped with the inflammation. Currently no problems at all. What you saw is likely neutrophils fighting bacteria. Quite a normal thing which is happening more or less all the time in the body whenever you get a bacterial infection.
I just read your post. I often look at the whole picture and through a process of elimination try to figure things out. My best friend and I often agree that we have to be our own researchers and best advocates. I looked for a holistic dentist years ago and could not find one in my area. Please let us know how things go. It sounds like you have become your own best advocate. I wish you luck with this. Take care!👩🦳
Teeth, wot teeth?
I had 5 failed root canals removed prior to start V+O last year, UR 5, 6, 7, UL 5, 6. These had been refilled and rebuilt at least twice and some three times over the previous 10 years but there wasn't enough of the outer shell to support the filling. All had been filled long before the root canals.
Both upper wisdom teeth were removed about 30 years ago.
LR7 was extracted due to an infection in the jaw. The wisdom tooth was erupting forwards and pressing on LR7. The dentist thought the tooth was OK and that the wisdom tooth was the problem but to relieve the pain did an extraction. As he was removing it he commented "uh cracked anyway". Antibiotics cleared up the infection. Wisdom tooth hasn't caused any problem since.
Can't remember where LL4 went but it's long gone.
My enamel is shot due to a 2L a day coke habit 15-35 years old. Coca-Cola I gave you the best years of my teeth.
I was x-rayed as a suspected ovarian cyst when my mum was 3 months pregnant, Far more likely. Yeah, I think that would have done it, f'r sure, f'r sure.
Root canals are just life...they happen to anyone. No antibiotics. They simply clean the root canal.
my hematologist has said I should have a prophylactic antibiotic prior to having a root canal procedure
I was undiagnosed at the time of needing a tooth removed. Because none of us knew I had CLL it was like a ricochet effect, with infection after infection. I felt as if I was on the edge of sepsis multiple times.
A dental Ct head scan showed chronic sinusitis, driven by roots in my sinuses. A permanent infection source until that tooth was removed, and that none of us were aware of.
From my own experience I would say that antibiotics are lifesavers in people with CLL. Clearly my immune system had been trying to fight the sinusitis on its own in me. It didn’t work.
We know that dental infections and procedures release massive amounts of bacteria into the blood, which is why people with damaged heart valves have antibiotics prior to dental procedures. Something that has protected people from infected heart valves for decades.
The same applies to people with CLL. Guidelines say antibiotics should be given with dental procedures, to reduce the risk of rare infections.
Some of us will get away with not doing that, for me I wouldn’t take the risk. If someone’s teeth are perfect then that’s great. But if there is already infection my experience had long term consequences for me. I didn’t have the opportunity to have antibiotic prophylaxis because none of us had any idea I had chronic sinusitis or CLL.
I’m a great believer in a lot of functional medicine but antibiotic prophylaxis has transformed the danger of infected heart valves for most, and CLL patients are also at risk. An individual is able to decide on their own individual risk, but I personally worry when functional doctors are recommending something advised for a reason across a whole CLL population.
The antibiotic single dose given at the time of a dental procedure is given to kill any bacteria that spills into the bloodstream. It doesn’t mean that you have to continue the antibiotics after, in fact it reduces that likelihood.
For me they were a lifesaver x
Hi, it is well documented that root canals are a source of infection and it is a contributing factor to overwork the immune system. I have taken out my 2 root canals and since my WBC has stabilized and even lowered. I have been on W&W for 12 years. I have replace them with dental implants. In order to help your CLL journey, I would certainly suggest looking into removing your root canals. Be healthy.
How was your healing process? Did you take antibiotics?
Sorry for late reply. Healing was tougher than I thought but no antibiotics.
I’ve not experienced the same issue as you, however the researcher in you may find these observations interesting. I was on a low dose of antibiotic when I was first diagnosed with CLL. I had been taking the medication for about 2 years for gum disease. One of my first thoughts after hearing my white count was high was “it’s the medication I’m on”. It wasn’t, I had CLL. Also a few years after my dx. I had a tooth implant. I was concerned about blood loss and infection, hell I was worried about that every time I went in for a cleaning. Anyway the implant went fine and I’ve never had any dental complications due to CLL. The mental stress and anguish of CLL is real. Stay strong!
Adding this story because you love research! It’s not CLL, but a neighbor’s daughter was diagnosed with thyroid cancer. She went to a holistic center in Florida and they had her remove her root canals. I had never heard of a connection between root canals and anything else prior to this (happy to say I don’t have any).
Hi! I was diagnosed with CLL 2.5 years ago and at one time had 8 root canals. I had 4 removed before I was diagnosed and I still have 4. I’m having no issues with them and my health is good. No treatment just watch and wait. I see the oncologist once a year. But yes I think about the remaining root canals often. It’s incredibly expensive to remove them and then replace them with any number of options. I don’t want implants with metal so I’m just not moving forward with the rest at this point. Hopefully I can in the future. I’m 59 years old.
When I was in my twenties, a friend who was a naturopathic physician gave me so much scary reserach on root canals that I've never had one. I'd have a tooth pulled first before I had a root canal.
Hi. So, I had my wife who has been practicing Dentistry for 30+ years (started as a Hygienist then went to Dental School and graduated from Washington University in St. Louis with a DMD) read through these posts and various replies. I have had CLL since 2009 so she is very familiar with CLL as well (Not as much as me though!! 😁). Anyway, she was disappointed to say the least on some of the misinformation that some people have received from practitioners. Of course not all Dentists and Doctors agree on the approach of medicine, and it always helps to receive a second opinion. But here are some of her main points that I'm paraphrasing. 1) There is no reason to have root canals proactively removed if they are not abscessed or causing pain and discomfort. Some holistic Dentists (also called Biological Dentists) are promoting that people should not have root canals or even have them removed and replaced with implants. These same Dentists sometimes promote removing old amalgam fillings because of Mercury which they say get into the blood stream. Or don't drink city water or use products containing Fluoride. I won't comment further on these speculative messages which the ADA (American Dental Association) and other peer reviewed journals certainly discount and are not supported by peer reviewed clinical evidence or trials. But on root canals specifically, the root canal replacement is to remediate bacterial infection in the pulp usually due to a cavity. And the tooth blackness can mean several potential things. (A Crown should have been placed over the tooth that had the root canal to begin with so you should not see this on the tooth). Many people don't complete their root canals and leave temporary crowns in place which is not advisable. Even a small amount of bacteria left accidently can cause infections to come back in root canals in a very small % of cases (like around 2%). This by no means supports research and data that root canals can cause cancer (CLL) in people which is what the biological dentists and others are propagating. (12 women who had breast cancer had previous root canals is not a scientific fact that the breast cancer must have been caused by the root canals). Taking out previous root canals is like cutting off a good foot was a good analogy posted above unless there are other serious complications going on. 2) Taking out root canals will not make your CLL go away either. 3) As someone accurately stated, an antibiotic is not needed before a trip to the dentist unless you have had various heart issues previously. Not due to CLL. 4) That white blood cell attacking an infection is actually your IGA anti-bodies (Look up Immunoglobulin) attacking the plaque scrapped off your tooth (which a Hygienist will use to clean teeth). Plaque is bacterial. That is what your immune system does every day in your body. 5) Roots on the upper-level teeth can put pressure on sinuses in some cases from surgeries. It's rare but it can happen. I hope this helps clear up some of the messages in this thread. My wife also said if you go to the dentist twice a year for cleanings and of course brush with an electric toothbrush twice a day and of course floss daily (or better yet use a water pik), you'll have healthy gums and less issues with your teeth (oh yeah and drinking sugary soft drinks doesn't help!!)
My thanks to you and your wife for taking the time to respond with that summary addressing misinformation. In my experience, it's fairly standard for holistic practitioners to recommend amalgam filling replacement, despite lack of evidence supporting the practice. Per the CONCLUSION from The Dental Amalgam Toxicity Fear: A Myth or Actuality, published in Toxicology International
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
The current use of amalgam has not posed a health risk apart from allergic reactions in few patients. Clinical justifications have not been available for removing clinically satisfactory amalgam restorations, except in patients allergic to amalgam constituents. Mercury hypersensitivity is an immune response to very low levels of mercury. There is no evidence that mercury released from amalgams results in adverse health effects in the general population. If the recommended mercury hygiene procedures are followed, the risks of adverse health effects in the dental office could be minimized. Amalgam is safe and effective restorative material and its replacement by nonamalgam restorations is not indicated. Also a recent review by the American Dental Association Council on Scientific Affairs states that: “Studies continue to support the position that dental amalgam is a safe restorative option for both children and adults. When responding to safety concerns it is important to make the distinction between known and hypothetical risks.”
With respect to antibiotic use prior to dental procedures, with CLL, that depends on whether you are neutropenic. One prophylactic dose of antibiotics may be indicated to reduce your risk of neutropenic sepsis, when you don't have enough neutrophils in your blood to destroy any bacteria from your mouth getting into your blood, which needs to be kept sterile.
Neil
Neil -
While neutropenia is a certainly a case where prophylactic antibiotics are called for, I think a root canal in itself warrants antibiotics for those with suppressed B-cells and immunoglobulins, even during Watch&Wait, during, and after treatment because of the biofilm problem I highlight above.
Four days after the high dose of IVIG Gammagard that I had in December brought my serum IgG to 1874 mg/dL (normal range at the MDA Lab is 616 - 1616) . My IgG was still 723 mg/dL a month after infusion, and 512 mg/dL 2 months later. My IgG had been 354 mg/dL a few hours before infusion. So IVIG alone was not sufficient to clear that tooth infection. I had even stopped the Pirtobrutinib for 5 days and Venetoclax for 2 days.
=seymour=
Not what you're looking for?
You may also like...
Root Canals and Wisdom Teeth
root canals
CLL and Teeth Extractions
Amalgum, root canal influence on general health and CLL
CLL & Biologics for Arthritis
Neutropenia - Antibiotics good idea before dental work?
My GP just said something about CLL and Covid
C-diff and CLL
