Someone, and I can't remember who, said, possibly, sarcastically, that we should do as we are told, and take it, like good little sheep, In repect of this World Pandemic, and our vulnerability, and the seriousness of this 'Paticular Nasty little Virus'. I think on this occasion, we should most certainly. Do as we are told' Think of yourself, and others. Take it friends, Ba Ba Ba. All the very best, Ron
Vaccine taking: Someone, and I can't remember... - CLL Support
Vaccine taking
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Vindicatrix
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NewdawnAdministrator
I understand your sentiments Ron but I’m not massively fond of the imagery. Far from creeping in like compliant sheep for the vaccine, I think we should stride in there lion like knowing we are making the best choice for ourselves and others that we can.
It’s not about ‘doing what we are told’ but more about independently making our own choice based on the best information we can. Others will disagree about vaccination but in every case it has to be about free will not mindless herding!
Regards,
Newdawn
Well said Newdawn, I do like your response, and totally agree with you. The excuse for not taking the Vaccine, especially amongst the young, seems to be, partly based, on. what they are reading on Social Media, by unqualified so called experts.
The usual objections are, that they are not likely to catch it, so why bother, or it's unsafe, (And there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that) One of the other, preferred, excuses, punted out, and supported by some of the very 'Ultra left leaning liberal type's', is that they object, to being Coerced, and bullied by the Government.
They also, seem to be, huge concerns about their freedoms, and human rights. I do respect their view on this, but personally I feel they are so, very, wrong, and are putting others at risk. The fact that they are unlikely to get Covid, (and if they do, it's usually for them, a mild case). and also the fact that most people, have been double jabbed , is enough for them to continue resisting the Vaccine.
Sorry if I let a wee bit of Politics slip in there, I am aware that's it's not the done thing, but I do hope that on this occasion, I may be forgiven. All the best to you all, Ron.
From what I have read its the ultra RIGHT groups that an on average more anti vaccine.. Note that the so called red states in the USA have much higher % non vaccinated
Was listening to the Discovery podcast ‘The Evidence - when misinformation kills’ (BBC World Service Saturday) and in it a doctor of a Covid Intensive Care Ward in Nashville was saying that the attitude and response of unvaccinated patients has changed since the vaccination programme was rolled out and it’s difficult to deal with for staff.
He sees denial- ‘this isn’t covid you are lying’, even when they are dying
He sees aggression - ‘you did this to me’ (the medical staff being lumped into the alleged bureaucracy covid conspiracy)
He sees regret - people who wish they had been vaccinated but covid doesn’t care about your reasons for not being vaccinated, it doesn’t discriminate.
He says that it puts yet another burden on his staff who have to care for these people, often for 5 or more weeks, and watch them die and the families suffer all for the lack of a vaccine in so many cases
As Annie has pointed out, anti-vaxxers tend to be extreme right wingers, more often than not. f you look at the USA, Trump-supporting states are far more likely to go down the 'libertartian' route.
Glossary: 'libertarian' = I'll do what I like, and to h*** with everyone else!
Free will must be constrained when it impacts others.
An immensely complex philosophical debate Dahlia. My concern is how the application of informed free will is being contaminated and distorted by misinformation which has mischievous intent at its core. Freedom allows it to be disseminated and sadly this impacts on rational, well informed and balanced choices. Unfortunately not everyone is altruistic or community minded and this pandemic has set it into focus. We on here have the greatest reason to fear ‘unconstrained free will’ but that’s not widely understood I’m afraid.
Newdawn
Free will by definition is the ability to act at one’s own discretion without factoring in the consequences of those actions. Most societies have constructed restraints on free will when it impacts the health, safety snd well-being of others. We have to wear clothes in public. We can’t smoke in confined areas with others. We can’t dam a river and deprive those downstream of water flow. We can’t shoot people because it’s fun. Public health by definition is another attempt by society to protect others. Free will may allow you to not get vaccinated but public health has the authority to prevent you from being around others and transmitting a potentially deadly disease. This is not in any way a philosophical debate. I know you are on our side and understand this. But I am tired of providing cover for people who refuse to obey the laws of our society under the guise of free will. Sorry for the rant.
• in reply toDahlia7
Right on, brother!Owen
Not a Rant, Dahlia, commons sense statement, which most agree with, I feel. PersonalyI object having to mix with people, who I may be unaware, that they have not been jabbed.
Yes I accept that there are exceptions, and those are well founded, and totally acceptable to most. But I do not want my children going to a venue, not knowing who they aere socialising and mixing with, Nor do I want my elederly relative, with underlying conditions going to her ' Knitting meeting', or wehatever, not knowing who she's knitting with.
I feel strongly that this 'Covid' virus 'Pandemic, to me, it is an 'International Emergency type issue, similar to, a 'War' and therefore needs to be dealt with as such, for the present. In my my humble view.
Keep on 'Ranting, Dahlia7,,our lives may depend on it.
All the very best, and stay safe.
Ron
Thank you Ron. I just wished we cared for one another more. Love really can conquer all.
I so agree Dahlia7. When confronted with this question I always say, "My "personal" choice is only "personal" if I choose to not encounter any other humans, but if I do, my choice is not "personal".
In a representative democracy laws constrain certain actions in order to protect everyone. Morality also plays a role in constraining a person's actions toward others. Who, what, why and how should be debated openly and honestly. That is not an easy or neat process. Our government was designed to protect our unalienable rights. So that makes the process of restricting them harder and messier.
Truth
Just my thoughts, but I believe most, if not all Vaccines, are miracles. I was a History major in college and have a great appreciation for where we started and how we got to this place. I rejoice in the minds and abilities of the people capable of delivering these miracles. Vaccines, CLL drugs, the wisdom of doctors......this ain't politics, this is a gift. Again, just my thoughts....
I believe the biggest hurdle to vaccination hesitancy for Covid is still misinformation. I think that most CLLers don’t fall into that category because many of us research diligently, trust science and are immune compromised.
My Mom’s childhood friend, Ginny, struggled throughout her childhood and into adulthood with the after effects of Polio. Watching her struggle was absolutely heartbreaking. I remember asking Auntie Ginny if I could get polio. She told me that when I was younger I had a vaccine for polio to make sure I didn’t get it. It is important to note at the time, many resisted the vaccine. Not to this extent, but there was also much vaccine hesitancy for polio. It is kind of shocking since polio has been mostly eradicated.
Sandy
This is the first time vaccination in general has been discussed. I asked my aunt about childhood diseases. She said it was common to see children with calipers on their legs after contracting polio. My Husband had a relative who was blind from measles. Measles is terrible. In the old days before vaccines people died of diptheria and tetanus.
We were good. We accepted that we took our babies for their jabs and they didnt suffer or die.
My grandson had covid for 10 days. Yes he recovered but was really poorly and lost weight.
Covid seems to be about numbers or how many are in hospital but it is horrible if you are ill. My other grandson, his brother lost his sense of smell but was ok. My daughter is double jabbed and tested negative but felt off colour.
We havent got a choice really. We have to try. Iv had my 3 jabs and its the best we can do. Others can help us by being careful but the uk thinks its over. I cant go anywhere that efforts arent being made to keep us safe. Anne uk
Take it like a man.
My question to everything about "taking" any vaccine shots is: Where is the information about the interactions between taking Imbruvica and the issues between any companies vaccines???I take a total of 16 different meds and I'm not comfortable into taking ANY vaccines and there's no way until there's IRONCLAD proof that it's not going to affect me in any way.
I can't take the flu vaccine shots because of one of the ingredients used to make the flu vaccines, so, if I piss anyone off for not taking the shots, so be it, I won't be "FORCED" into taking a shot to make the public "happy" is crazy
Frenchie
Nobody here would ever want you to take anything that you feel might hurt you to help us. We would however hope you would do everything you could to prevent possible exposure to others that are unprotected like yourself. That’s it.
The earlier influenza vaccines contain egg protein, which is a common allergen. The mRNA vaccines do not contain egg.
And regarding "ironclad proof required"....why are you even taking ANY modern medical item? Absolutely none of them offer any ironclad guarantee. There are no guarantees. Absolutely none. But, I bet many of those who do not have access to vaccines wish they had them. To use the polio analogy, it may not be endemic in the US or other first world countries, but it is still around. To my knowledge, the only disease caused by an infectious agent that has been deliberately made extinct (and not without a lot of discussion) is smallpox.
Hi Tony French, I agree with some of what you say, and have respect for your views. You have to do, what you think, is best for you. I also think, that we all, many in your situation, also have to balance, whats best for you,and what's best for those around you.
Sometimesi t's down to an unpleasant choice, Tony, many lives, possibly saved, against one life possibly saved, horrible choice, I know, but that's my own personalview. It is good, however, that we can discuss, those very sensitive issues, on this forum. Long may it last. All the very best to you. Ron
Wow … read your bio Vindicatrix n your a mirror of my recent journey too; TIA, dx CLL, same exact list of meds, changed lifestyle habits, etc… a scary Halloween read, like twin brothers we are! N we both believe in taking covid vaccines too.
However, instead of the sheep analogy some have told you about us taking the covid vaccine, I like to think of vaccine-takers as “warriors” in the war against covid ! There are always valid rare exceptions to not taking vaccines (as pointed out in the replies) and I respect that. But here in US, the non-vaxed number is waaaaay beyond those rare exceptions. Mind boggling that is.
Hi twin, spooky isn't it?, the similarities, of condition, and views. I really do think we have to follow the science her, and disregard, misinformation, and conspiracy theories, largely obtained through, social media, given by the unqualified,.
It has, as expected, turned very 'Political' certainly over here in the UK. Some Media and Press outlets, are of the opinion, that if we continue down the Science route, which they see as controlled by Government, that we are on a slippery slope to a Dictotarial type of State Government. They think we are being coerced and blacmailed by scare tactics, with hidden aganda's.
I have read on this site, that some people think that this kind of thinking is 'Far Right' domiated. I always understood, the reverse, it seem to be the'Ultra Liberal, left, who are voicing these concerns, in my humble opinion.
I hope things go well for you Pin 57, on this so called 'Journey of ours', (I wonder sometimes about these 'Right on Terms') which appear to have swamped our language, over the last thirty years or so. It's called fate, get on with it, I say, but then, I have possibly upset some, saying that, and if I have I apologise in advance.
All the best, twin
Ron
Your points are well taken Vindi… social media n some press media certainly are powerful voices these days with the ease of pounding mis-information that can lead to bad consequences.
Well take care “twin” over there in UK and look forward to your future posts.
I thought a few weeks ago, a similar post had over 90 replies, and was closed due to the purpose of this forum not being of political nature. If you don’t want the vaccine, and no amount of correct medical information can change your mind, or you cannot decipher what is real information; don’t get the vaccine.
With the scale, of devestation, 'Covid' can reek, I think we can be forgiven, if it becomes 'Political. 90 response, show that people are concerned, I think, there are, exceptions to every rule, this is not black and white, (administrators, please note!) How's about a wee bit of common sense descretion, on this particular issue, at least.
This is not a criticism, by the way, I think you all do a great job, navigating, difficullt issues, and I certainly appreciate it. Just a well intentioned observation. All the best Ron.
Do we really have to wreck this valuable forum with politics? Believe in science, or believe in magic, either way it's your choice.
The problem is not so much with the science, as with political interference. If everyone was scientifically literate, then they would be able to take a rational decision based on the data... and, indeed, a few people have a perfectly good reason not to have the vaccine. However, the vast majority of anti-vaxxers do not fall into that category - they have been persuaded by demagogues that it's a 'bad thing', a 'government plot' or whatever. They fall for some crazy stuff.
What to do about it (how to persuade them) is the problem - and it's a political one.
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