I wonder whether any members have experience with a deuterium depleted diet. Much to my surprise I found out that this is pretty much the diet I am on currently, though I had no idea it is called that. And I had no idea about the existence of deuterium or its possible health implications in human nutrition either. There seems to be quite some anecdotal evidence suggesting that a diet like this may be beneficial during the WW phase of non-treatment, especially when coupled with regular exercise. Until now I was focusing on B cell metabolism trying to find out how exactly could a keto diet be beneficial for this condition and now I see that there may be other ways a diet like this could be beneficial which have nothing to do with the metabolism of the cells. So that got me thinking. How many other possible benefits of such approach may be out there that I have no idea about? That not anybody has any idea about? It does not have to be just through the metabolic pathway that this could be beneficial. There are things we know that we don't know. But there are many more we don't even know that we don't know.
DD Diet.: I wonder whether any members have... - CLL Support
DD Diet.
If you are simply following the foods that are allegedly low in deuterium then that appears fine but honestly, the rest of this paper didn't seem up to much and the references cited were only vaguely related eg one about water rotation in Ohio.
Some of the suggestions such as dry fasting (. siimland.com/is-dry-fasting... ) could be dangerous because it suggests "You won’t actually become dehydrated before the first days of dry fasting because your body will begin to produce its own water."
Please take care.
Jackie
Hi LeoPa,
Could I make a suggestion? Google Scholar is a great place to search medical and scientific journals, rather than seeking random information off the web from people who are often less than qualified to talk authoritatively on a topic. Of course Google Scholar isn’t perfect either but it’s better than some of the sources I’ve seen you using (e.g. websites of personal trainers).
You seem to be very passionate about the diet aspects of CLL which is great. However, being able to assess which information is reliable and valid is really important to supporting your arguments. Your anecdotal experiences are interesting to read about but when not supported with real, scientific and peer reviewed sources, then it is simply that-your experience. I worry that people read your posts and may end up doing themselves some damage.
Thank you for the suggestion. I'm afraid you won't find peer reviewed, scientific and double blind randomized control trials regarding fasting and nutrition. Who would fund such? There's no money in it. All we have is anecdotal evidence. BTW if anybody from the community here is on a low fat, vegan, vegetarian or "balanced" diet and has anecdotal evidence to share that this dietary approach helped to slow his progression, or even better stopped progression or improved his CBC numbers I'd like to read about it very much. Any way to slow this is welcome.
There are actually plenty of journal articles available if you do the research-there’s an enormous list of journal articles on DD. You don’t even have to limit it to research databases, there are more reliable sources than random people with computers that have created a website for themselves e.g. cancer and research centers, institutions, associations, universities.
The difficulty in the anecdotal information you are seeking is that none of it will be able to provide evidence that there is a cause-and-effect relationship between the two variables of diet and CBC numbers. Correlation does not imply causation.
One pays a high price for a rosy consensus. In our case that price might be our life and the consensus not happening before we pass. I'm willing to take a chance and go with the correlation because from time to time causation is the reason of the correlation. I don't advise anyone to do what I do. And I'd not refuse standard therapy if it comes to that. But till it does I'm ready to experiment to see what helps me. As far as the health benefits of a keto diet are concerned, there are no doubts in my mind whatsoever. My only question remaining is how beneficial it is for this specific condition for me, and that I will find out in due time because I'm doing the trial most relevant for me. It's cancer after all. Extreme illness demands extreme counter measures. A boo boo please go away won't do.
Sure, it’s your life you should absolutely make choices for your own health. I’m actually not making any assessment of any suggested diet/nutrition plan, simply suggesting it makes sense to base those choices on valid and reliable sources of information and in consultation with the advice of good doctors.
Makes perfect sense, thanks! Best wishes. Leo
Deuterium is a non-radioactive isotope of hydrogen with double the mass of the most common form of hydrogen. When it is incorporated in a water molecule, it results in slightly more dense water, which has a slight effect on chemical reactions. In ground breaking research, deuterium has been used to determine that CLL cells do die, rather than accumulate indefinitely: experiments.springernature....
and it has also been used to assess the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of CLL drugs, such as Ibrutinib, idelalisib and venetoclax.
With respect to anti-cancer therapy, there has been some interest, which was sufficient for a Budapest pharmaceutical company to obtain ethical approval for a CLL phase 2 trial way back in 2016, as was reported in this forum here: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...
Given it is now 4 years later, why haven't we heard more about the outcome of this trial if there is any validity to the claims?
I replied a couple of times to that post and recommend you read my second reply, where I said "Many alternative medicines are supported by impressive sounding technical/scientific/medical terms, but if you have enough background understanding in these fields, you appreciate the words are just meaningless jargon used to justify something that just doesn't fit within our understanding of how physics/chemistry works. Given we owe our modern day existence to the exploitation of our understanding of physics/chemistry, any claim that seems to fly in the face of that understanding needs careful examination and duplication under controlled circumstances before it can be accepted as real and not a placebo effect say. So on the face of it, yes, this could be 'snake oil'."
With respect to your claim about paying "a high price for a rosy consensus", by ignoring consensus, you are also going to pay the high price of wading through a snake oil infested swap, trying to find the very small gems of promising (and unproven) potentially beneficial treatments. Unfortunately, without clinical trials, you won't know what dose or how often to take a dose of 'x', what side effects and interactions are likely and so on. That snake oil infested swamp is also very busy with extremely persuasive snake oil salesmen, promising with little to no convincing evidence specific to CLL, rosy 'cures', typically with no side effects.
Neil
Thank you, wow, so many things to consider. I had no idea such a trial was going on in SVK of all places 😊 I'd better start digging up some info about how it went. In that unscientific article the author made the claim that glacier water is low in deuterium as is restructured frozen water. No idea what that means. Should I start licking ice cubes from the deep freeze instead of drinking? ❄️😁 This snake oil field is like a mine field. One has to watch every step.
DD water is a new one on me.
The price of the product seems to reflect the energy cost of production (by successive distillations). In temperate zones natural water contains 140-150 ppm deuterium. In the UK a 12 x 1.5 litre case of 125 ppm retails at just under £75; for 25 ppm add another £200. Intriguing as DD water is, for that kind of money I'm more interested in trialling the health benefits of red wine.
I won't waste money on it. But it's not necessary either I think. As long as I eat the foods mentioned in the article and avoid the ones mentioned the body will regulate the inner DD level to its satisfaction. This makes evolutionary sense. We developed drinking the water from our environment and counter the detrimental effects eating the right foods. Problem is now we still drink the water and eat on top what nobody evolved to eat. Heap pain on injury. Then pay the price we do. Humans are the only species smart enough to produce their own food and stupid enough to eat it too. All others eat what they find in nature only.
Yes indeed, too clever for own good. Wisdom is an endangered species, while knowledge has become a commodity anyone can get their hands on and re-form to suit their purpose.
Very perceptive indeed...
Hello! Deuterium is a form of hydrogen that has a slightly higher mass. Hydrogen is present in water (water is formed from one oxygen and two hydrogens) and also in almost all substances we eat (proteins, lipids, sugars, vitamins....). Deuterium is rare, there is one deuterium for 666 666 hydrogen on the Earth. So, our diet is already very, very poor in deuterium.
Hi, I guess in absolute terms yes, but it's about the relative figures.
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