Foods to have and avoid for lymph flo... - CLL Support Assoc...

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Foods to have and avoid for lymph flow and CLL

Does anyone have a definitive lists of foods that are good for the lymph system, and particularly foods to avoid. I am early CLL Watch & Wait but the lymph nodes have recently started swelling - but fortunately only temporarily. It got me thinking that after one swells up, something must be acting on it to clear it. I heard that coffee - because of the caffeine - is not good for lymph flow as the caffeine constricts the lymph vessels, leading to flow congestion and therefore higher risk of lymph node swelling. I do like and need my coffee - it helps me get through the fatigue symptoms, so would only be prepared to give it up if certain. An earlier post in this community highlighted the benefits of coffee. Of course i could stop the coffee for a test period to see - but as there are likely a plethora of other foods that help / hinder the lymph flow it would hardly be the definitive scientific experiment. With CLL I think our diet is of utmost importance because we have a range of conditions to deal with: fatigue and energy -lower oxygen levels due to lower red blood counts; foods that can reduce (hopefully) the severity of the night sweats; and of course those that support the lymph system. Other CLL symptoms namely weight loss, high temperatures must also have foods that are needed. Just as important as the foods that help would be foods that are known to impact, or cancel out any improvements. It may even be that some of us don't have certain symptoms of CLL simply because our current diet prevents those effects appearing. I haven't even touched the discussion of the benefits of an organic vs non-organic diet, or supplements. Whilst in W & W mode a lot of us are frustrated that nothing is being done, however the diet is surely the most important treatment we could have.

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Have you read n of 1 by by Glenn Sabin? Interesting book. He discusses diet and (supervised) supplements and exercise. Have a lovely day.

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Hi debcesq i havent read this book can you give information ?

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I dont find this book my country

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I bought my copy of Glenn Sabin's n of 1 from amazon (Canada). I'm sure amazon (US) and probably the other amazons have it. Excellent book. He actually reversed his CLL via diet, supplements, exercise, etc. when he was very advanced. Wouldn't necessarily work for everyone. But it is an inspirational (and true!) story, validated by a variety of CLL doctors.

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Thanks planetaryKim I am live in a turkey and speak turkish i read english but its difficult for me .glenn sabin is only take a egcg isnt He?

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Egcg is one of many supplements he uses.

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Egcg naturally occurs in tea, particularly green tea

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if you have amazon membership, it is also available as a kindle book.

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Thanks. I will keep an eye out for it. I live in Japan so it might have to be from Amazon US

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I'll be traveling with hubby to Tokyo for a visit. Let me know about cll precautions that you take. I'm w&w but have gone to a neutropenic diet to avoid discomfort.

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In Tokyo, and Japan generally you should be able to find food to suit. Unfortunately you'll have to avoid the sushi, and some meats (mostly beef) are only cooked very rare. Chicken and pork and non-sushi fish is always well cooked. Vegetables are usually well cooked. Japan is not a dairy based country, so cheese is only around in limited amounts. Yoghurt is popular here. Fruit is plentiful and delicious, but obviously you need to chose carefully. Fortunately I haven't had to restrict my diet (yet), except to follow the foods that are recommended in "-Anticancer- A New Way of Life by David Servan-schreiber"

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Thank you! That helps tremendously. I hope you had no damage from the quake.

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Have fun here, you should have a great time! The quake was 600km away, so we are fine thanks.

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I read this book and I think he was part of the very small group that has a spontaneous remission. This can happen and I believe sometimes is linked with an infection or the occurrence of a different cancer (great, huh). I didn’t feel like anything really pointed tona magic bullet.

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Some of the more extreme diets can be dangerous, but moderate balanced diet changes that help you keep fit and at normal weight can help. Careful coordination with your doctors, especially your CLL cancer expert is important to make certain it does not interfere with your treatment plan.

Here is some reading to help you choose a sound approach:

oicc.ca/en/blog/post/103?ut...

Glenn Sabin's writing includes many cautions about the potential danger of following his personal plan.

Another member posted this reply to a similar question posted 6 months ago.

"Changing your lifestyle will certainly be helpful for many reasons, however it is extremely unlikely to be curative for CLL. There have been documented cases of spontaneous remissions in CLL without any explanation, but they are rare. I can certainly understand not wanting chemotherapy, but there are non-chemo options that might be available to you. One anecdotal on the other side of this argument is the case of Steve Jobs. He had a rare but respectable pancreatic tumor for which surgery would have been curative early in the disease. He decided to treat himself with all manner of diets, juicing etc until the tumor was no longer amenable to surgery and he died.

Give it your best shot with lifestyle changes which will certainly benefit you in terms of cardiovascular disease (still the #1 killer in the US). At least then you will know you have done everything possible. But don't allow the treatment window to close so that you find yourself up against a wall with your CLL. Then in the meantime explore non-chemo options that might be available to you.

Len

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I looking more to tailor my diet around foods that work for the blood and lymph whilst in Watvh and Wait mode. Certainly aware of extreme diets, and wary of supplements that claim wonders.

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Ian - There are no magic foods or supplements. If there were everyone here would be on them. Have your doctor check your vitamin D and the vitamin B levels, especially B12 and if you are deficient work with him/her to bring them into a healthy range. Other than that, a sensible balanced diet and exercise are the best things you can do for yourself. That means cutting out preservatives, excess sugar (you can still enjoy treats now and then), and excess salt. You clearly have the exercise part covered. You might want to explore different ways to balance your diet - I am a vegetarian, mostly vegan, and have been for over 40 years for moral reasons, and I have cut out most beverages in favor of water. That didn't prevent my CLL and hasn't affected my CLL, but it feels like the right approach for me, just to be healthy.

Lankisterguy's link is excellent, and covers the subject very completely.

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You are placing a great deal of emphasis on the purported influence of foods on lymph fluid flow - and totally omitting mention of the primary means by which our bodies move lymphatic fluid - EXERCISE!.

Neil

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The exercise is a given. I walk 10km a day (thanks to my dog) Yoga as well. Have recently heard that these rebounder thingies are good for stimulating flow. So maybe if i wanst doing this much exercise i would have more swollen nodes. who knows?

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Neil, I always remembered a post you had about exercise and if it was a pill. My ANC was down but within range. I exercised and at my next appointment the ANC had doubled. I think the exercise plan is great for all cancer and other ailments. Also, Dr. Keating and Dr. Weirda pushed exercise alot. I told Dr. Weirda about my bad knees and that I was limited. He suggested stationery bike, pool- water walking, maybe hot tub for my back and other low impact exercising. I worry about infections from the pool- only one I have access to is a public one. But Dr. Weirda says it is ok. Thanks once again for your post STAYSTRONG J.R.

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Here's the post on if exercise were a pill: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

It helps hugely if you have an enjoyable reason for exercising, e.g. company of friends, enjoying walking, photography...

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Thanks Neil. You are always very informative. I have my wife to help with the exercise. Have a question for you. Say we have cancer in our lymph nodes or blood stream or both. A person decides to exercise. Jog, bike, jump rope, etc. So in theory this may help our system drain the abnormal cells out of our bulky nodes. So is our system still working to a certain degree of trying to get rid of the bad cells. Should we be cautious of to much exercise and causing like TLS or any other bad side affects . Do not need anymore issues than I have already. STAY STRONG J.R

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CLL is everywhere in our bodies where there's a blood supply and every living cell in our bodies is no more than 10um (about half a thousandth of an inch) from a blood supply. So hair, nails, cartilage and corneas would be the only parts of our body not infused with CLL cells. I'm not sure of the rate of exchange of B/CLL cells in the lymph nodes with those in lymphatic fluid medlineplus.gov/ency/articl... which eventually drain into our blood supply, it's a new area of research. Exercise certainly improves the rate at which lymphatic fluid flows through our lymph system, but I don't know if it increases the rate at which CLL cells leave nodes. That seems to depend on when a CLL cell gets exhausted and loses adhesion, slipping into the blood stream (presumably either via the lymphatic or blood system).

It's true that CLL cells lack stromal protection while in our blood, so they are more susceptible to dying, but you don't get massive die-off of CLL cells in the blood (or anywhere) unless under treatment. So there's no risk of TLS, though you can of course overdo exercise - you need to build up your stamina gradually.

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Thanks Neil. I go see Dr. Weirda in a couple of weeks. I have a ton of questions for him. I will bring up this whole exercise thing. Hopefully I will see Dr. Keating while I am there. Always love seeing or hearing about him. A CLL Support group was started in the Houston area back in April. Low attendance so far. But I have heard Keating, Weirda and some of the other doctors have expressed interest in coming. I am sure attendance will boom then. At the last meeting one of the topics discussed was the DNA vaccine clinical trial coming to MDA. Looks like it will be two arms to it. One arm treatment naive and the other is treated with Ibrutinib. Each arm consisting of I believe 21 people. Interesting and exciting times we are living in. STAY STRONG J.R.

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When I first got diagnosed with CLL. My first Oncologist suggested The Mediterranean diet, A exercise plan and the book -Anticancer- A New Way of Life by David Servan-schreiber. The book deals not only with food/diet but in other ways the mental aspect of what someone goes through. STAY STRONG J.R.

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Thanks - I have just been given this book. I am about to start reading it soon.

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I thumbed through David ‘s book. It almost fell open at a section on which foods to have and which to avoid. Question answered

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Hello 👋 I drink black espresso every day. Going on 5 years since my diagnosis

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N of 1 is a good book.

In general A whole food plant based Diet is what I do.

I personally know someone who brought her WBC down from 150K to 50K on a Vegan Raw food low sugar diet.

I am just vegan.

The Movies Forks over Knives on Netflixs in very good,

Food Choices on Netflixs is very good too,

A Vegan diet also greatly helps the planet. I was in denial before....

Be well,

Hoffy

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