Either this is definitive proof about cholesterol lowering... or not. Views?

[Paul12]

It’s produced by a vegan - but is the study based case unanswerable?

nutritionfacts.org/video/ho...

[sandybrown]

The information goes cack to 2017, there are many new information available now!!

Very good Morden presentation with book turning effect!!

Our health depends on what goes into our mouth!

[Paul12 in reply to sandybrown]

Yes it is 2017. Please point out any error in the video

[sandybrown in reply to Paul12]

I am afraid I am not a medical person. All I know is we need cholesterol in our body to live, how munch of cholesterol?.

It all depends on who want to make money.

If we watch what we put in our mouth and control it, then we can control our health.

[Frances_B]

I took one look at the website it's on and that confirms for me that it will not be an unbiased view - I don't need to even watch it to work that out. Greger's "Nutrition Facts" website is often one-eyed, just like McDougall's Forks over Knives. So many of these types of sites cherry-pick research and evidence to support their viewpoints - just like T Colin Campbell in his China Study book.

If people want to be vegan or vegetarian or Keto, or Paleo, or purple or even just plain beige, then that's their choice but I get very fed up with selective use of "evidence" to support viewpoints, and saddened by the fact that people get sucked in to believing all of this stuff by the use of names such as "Nutrition Facts", and the use of white coats in promo photos. It's not just the Nutrition Facts site that bugs me - there are others which are doing the same sort of thing. And too many gullible people equate a glossy website with truth - when it ain't necessarily so - they don't bother to look beyond what the website is telling them - even if all the "evidence" is cited with journal article references they don't look any further. An absolute classic is where Forks over Knives tells people that consuming dairy products is a contributor to developing MS but the "evidence" they use for that is a couple of geographic studies from the 1970s where dairy consumption was mapped against disease incidence without consideration of other relevant factors such as Vitamin D levels or normal dietary patterns and intakes for the areas mapped. Sigh....................

The same applies to oh-so-many of the special diets which will heal or overcome whatever medical problem you have. Some even work hard to convince people that they actually have a medical "condition" (which according to mainstream medicine doesn't necessarily exist) and then work hard to entice them to follow special diets which all too often require the purchase of (through the said web-site/s) "essential" expensive supplements designed to fix that so-called medical condition (candidiasis is the real classic).

[Paul12 in reply to Frances_B]

Thank you but are there any faults in the studies?

[sandybrown in reply to Paul12]

USA top man , smoking and heart problem, tobacco companies!!!!

what was the end result?

[Paul12 in reply to sandybrown]

What are you posting about? I don’t think Greger supports tobacco companies...

[sandybrown in reply to Paul12]

Take a look at the video clip in one minute, after that do Google on what happened in history !!

[Paul12 in reply to sandybrown]

I have no idea what you’re posting about. Are any of the studies incorrect?

[sandybrown in reply to Paul12]

I have reopened to you post, OK. In USA in the early days smoking had health problem and politics played a part in controlling it. This is because of tobacco industry.

[Paul12 in reply to sandybrown]

My post is nothing about tobacco or smoking industry. It’s about cholesterol!

[sandybrown in reply to Paul12]

"President Lyndon B. Johnson suffered his first MI in 1955 while serving in the U.S. Senate. He was a heavy smoker and had significant cardiac issues. ... He died in 2006 at age 93 from complications relating to his cardiovascular disease"

"In 1973, Joe Goldstein, now considered to be one of the founders of modern cholesterol research, was one of the first to genetically classify the types of cholesterol-carrying lipoproteins in the blood."!

[Paul12 in reply to sandybrown]

I have no idea why you keep writing about smoking. Your quotations have nothing to do with my question. Are you sure you are in the right thread?

My question is not about smoking

My question is not about tobacco

My question is not about Presidents

My question is about a video I linked to asking whether this proves the case for cholesterol.

[sandybrown in reply to Paul12]

Serum cholesterol is important to human body function this is the reason the human body produces 80 % of cholesterol and 20% is from food and drinks intake.

Lowering cholesterol may give health problems. Cholesterol lowering medication may or can give side effect.

[Frances_B in reply to Paul12]

To reiterate - the studies chosen will have been selected to support the viewpoint being put forward by Greger and may or may not have "faults" in them - but there are no studies which have ever been conducted which will be faultless - and it should be noted that at least one of those cited was 20 years old. As I have already stated - the website the video appears on is not an objective or unbiased site - and there are plenty of other studies (many of them more recent) which will pursue a viewpoint opposite to Greger's. The type of site this sort of stuff appears on is generally a pretty good indicator of what views will be expressed, and the same can be said for paleo sites etc - any research cited will be cherry-picked to always support what ever the site "holders" want it to.

[Paul12 in reply to Frances_B]

Ok - please post one study which counters his video

[Peileen in reply to Frances_B]

I quite agree Frances_B. I went 18mths eating no fat due to waiting for gall bladder op. Not even marge or butter on toast. The agony wasn't worth it. Boiled potatoes, quorn, blended bananas and blueberries and oats. And still a cholesterol reading of 5.3 so my body must be producing it and diet isn't the cause. A friend's husband died suddenly last year possibly because he refused statins because he wanted to have grapefruit. Diet isn't as some believe the only cause of good or bad health. I've always eaten healthily and low fat and low sugar so am glad to take statins. There are several to try if one doesn't agree. And because of diverticular disease it would kill me to eat 5 a day. We each are different and there's a lot of money being made by more people than just the pharmaceutical companies. Common sense plays a big part.

[sandybrown]

This video clip may give interesting information on cholesterol :

youtube.com/watch?v=psnkNqL...(Not working as expected?)

[AnnieW55]

I posted these 2 links a short while ago. They make interesting reading and support the video clip of David Diamond

healthinsightuk.org/2019/10...

healthinsightuk.org/2020/01...

[sandybrown in reply to AnnieW55]

Please resend the links!

[AnnieW55 in reply to sandybrown]

Just did 😀. iPad not happy copying and pasting!

[sandybrown in reply to AnnieW55]

Thank you.

I have seen the first one. This is the first time I am seeing the second link, thank you.

[Paul12]

So if you had posted the DD link and asked if this disproved the cholesterol risks and I ignored the content of the video but simply posted the vegan one, you’d accept that as a response?

[sandybrown in reply to Paul12]

Give it a try, you will find out from my response.!

[Paul12 in reply to sandybrown]

So, most wont watch the video and no-one has debunked/critiqued any of the studies he references

[Springray]

To answer your question: Dr Gregor is a public health doctor and is used to comparing lots of epidemiological data.

The studies are all peer reviewed and well conducted.

I have halved my cholesterol following this wholefood plantbased diet. No need for meds now.

If you decide to give it a try, do it 100% for 4 weeks and recheck total cholesterol and LDL. You will be amazed it was that easy!

[Paul12]

I agree with everything you say BUT my question is whether the video makes the case ie whether one SHOULD lower cholesterol

[sos007 Ambassador]

Not.

This argument will go on ad-infinitum. There are just too many vested interests and lack of controlled studies that can effectively isolate all variables and provide double-blinded placebo control groups - without pharma sponsorship (either directly or indirectly).

Truly unbiased researchers do not have the funding to do it right.

Remember that Harvard researchers were bribed by the sugar industry in the 1960s to pronounce 'saturated fat' as the cause of heart disease and not sugar.

This led the processed food industry to replace fat with sugar resulting in generations of carb-addicted obese populations - especially in the U.S.

As a result, diabetes cases have soared as have cancers and other metabolic diseases including heart disease.

It took medical researchers 30 years to determine that the benefits of daily low-dose baby aspirin as a safe primary prevention strategy, was in fact, ineffective. In the meantime, many people suffered consequences such as internal bleeding, strokes, or some other side-effects such as hearing loss.

health.harvard.edu/staying-...

Who wishes to put their faith in pharma-sponsored medical determinations?

“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.”

- Hippocrates

The best course of action is adherence to a healthy diet and lifestyle. Attack the source of the problem, an inflammatory diet and lifestyle. You either adhere to a healthy diet or you don't, weekend 'cheating' undermines your health. A once per month exception is unlikely to do much harm.

The following is meant as inspiration and not to lecture:

70-85% of chronic medical conditions are caused by diet and lifestyle.

The only way you'll know if you are among that group is to initiate the necessary changes and assess the results.

I have determined that I am part of that group and I am enjoying my new found health.

I was hospitalized 5 years ago this week and underwent failed triple by-pass surgery March 12, 2015, followed by two separate angioplasty procedures in the following months.

The cocktail of drugs wreaked havoc on my body so I took matters into my own hands. I changed my diet and lifestyle, lost weight and stopped all drugs (to the great consternation of my cardiologist) by October 2016, save for aspirin which I stopped spring 2019 (again to his consternation).

Today there is no evidence of my still having clogged arteries. The definitive test would be another angiogram which is too invasive, risky, and unnecessary, but, as evidence, I present the following.

I play ice-hockey twice per week with guys half my age and have no problem keeping up, without issues, and absolutely no chest pains. In the gym I perform 20 minutes of high intensity interval training, twice per week, bringing my heart rate up to 160 bpm during 10 x 40-second sprints. My recovery is quick the next day and all of my blood test show normal to optimal results.

If you end up being one of the unlucky group (15 to 30% of the population) that has developed your condition congenitally, assuming that you have already tried the diet and lifestyle approach in a strict and regimented fashion, then you'll have to chart your own path through the medical information minefield.

Good luck to everyone.

“If you are not your own doctor, you are a fool.” – Hippocrates

[Paul12 in reply to sos007]

As always I find your posts absolutely inspirational. I know one size does not fit all and I am also pretty sure I have asked you this before but when you write " I changed my diet " that's not vegan, vegetarian, keto or anything that can be labelled is it...?

[sos007 Ambassador in reply to Paul12]

Closest thing is the Mediterranean Diet.

Mostly legumes, lots of cruciferous vegetables and salads, fish 3 times per week, 2 boiled eggs twice per week (day after hockey) nut butter on multigrain bread, nuts and seeds daily, an apple and berries daily, avocado and olive oil daily, feta and other cheeses in moderation. Chicken once per week, red meat - on occasion, sweets - 2-3 time per year - Christmas, Easter, my birthday - even then in very small portions and only following an intense workout. I avoid all fried and processed foods.

[Red18 in reply to sos007]

Hellooooo sos007 my dear friend. You have mentioned you eat fish 3 times per week. Can I ask which kind you eat? Hope you ok and keeping well

[sos007 Ambassador in reply to Red18]

Hello Red,

I usually eat wild-caught salmon, arctic char, and trout. I also eat wild-caught canned skipjack tuna. All of these fish are loaded with Omega-3 fatty acids.

Other fish that are high in omega-3s are: sardines, mackerel, and herring.

[Red18 in reply to sos007]

Thankyou very much