A simple question on Cirrhosis..

[Kellan38]

When I last had tests 3 years ago my doctor felt my liver and said, ‘That feels lovely and soft’, and when I had a CT scan 7 years ago another doctor there also felt my liver and said it felt perfectly OK to him, too,

Whilst I know that a doctor needs to have proper test results to hand before making a diagnosis, is a liver that feels soft also a good guide, and would a liver with Cirrhosis feel very much different to that?

[AyrshireK]

Tests done 7 years ago and physical palpation of the liver 3 years ago have zero relevance to you up to date liver health - a lot can change in 3 or 7 years and only fresh tests, scans, bloods and physical exam can give you an accurate picture of whats going on now.

Katie

[Kellan38 in reply to AyrshireK]

Thank you, Katie

I was aware that was the case, and my question was whether a doctor can sometimes feel that a liver with cirrhosis feels different to a healthy one. That was all I meant, but I probably didn’t phrase my question very well.

Regards

Graham

[AyrshireK in reply to Kellan38]

My hubbies shrivelled and shrunken cirrhotic liver probably feels different than a healthy fleshy one but only scans are really used for this purpose. I don't recall doctors 'feeling' hubbies liver apart from some students one time.

[Kellan38 in reply to AyrshireK]

I understand, thank you again.

I just mentioned the two instances in passing because they were quite interesting points in my own experience, but I realise they’d probably be of little meaning to others.

[10864 in reply to Kellan38]

My consultant could very clearly feel my severely enlarged liver at my initial consultation and feel no enlargement at my most recent so to answer your question in my case, yes, ANYONEcould have felt the difference, I could myself!

[Kellan38 in reply to 10864]

That’s really interesting 10864. Thank you so much for the confirmation.

I’m seeing my GP next Tuesday, so I’m expecting to be duly prodded and have a whole new range of tests as a result.

I’ll report back here either way, and I’m hoping I’ll be OK, but at the moment the health anxiety that Ive suffered for most of my life is having a field with its mental propaganda.

‘Fake news’ never had a thing on this malaise, but it’s ‘nuclear option’ is the fear that its tales might one day correspond with the actual truth.

[Fibro2021 in reply to Kellan38]

If the cirrhotic liver is strongly bumpy and dense, then this can really be felt by the doctor during its palpation, however, this is subjective and not always reliable. Nowadays, there are more reliable and sensitive methods of objective examination of the liver, such as ultrasound, CT, MRI, fibroscan and elastometry. Each of these methods has its own advantages and disadvantages.

[Kellan38 in reply to Fibro2021]

That’s very interesting. Thank you.

I was pretty certain I hadn’t dreamt it!

[Huggy7614]

I too had numerous doctors and consultants at the start prodding and pushing my liver , and yes they could feel it, and changes to it. I think any diagnosis is based on a number of factors, scans, blood tests AND physical exams. They are all tools for the doctors.

Andy

[Kellan38 in reply to Huggy7614]

Thank you for this, Huggy.

I didn’t want to give anyone the impression that I was leaning completely on what my doctor said he could feel, but taken as one confirmation amongst others, I felt it was worth a mention,

……….

[Ruggerhead]

Huggy has a good answer, at the first level Dr's will palpate looking for changes in mass and pain in the area, some may find area of concern some not, it is what they are taught as students, and again some are good at detecting a swollen or stiff livers others not so. Stage 2 of the investigation is usually bloods, then the next stages are the scans and again all have advantages and disadvantages, even the old fashioned needle biopsy. You would think over the years given the livers importance that there would be a 100% test wouldnt yoiu? A lot of people here have been dismissed from hospital with a perfect liver only to find out on more close inspection ..... my own opinion and i have had all tests is probably the fibroscan or MRE. But that;s just my own thought.

[redpoint72]

Hello there. My liver is shrunken,small and hard,with a coarse echo texture. I've had ultrasounds,and ct scans,and all have came back with the same results,but also bloods,to coincide with the scans...every 6 months...unfortunately, liver cirrhosis.

My best.chris

[Kellan38 in reply to redpoint72]

I’m so very sorry to hear that Chris, and I hope it goes without saying that I wish you all the best.

Thank you for having the courage to message me at this very difficult time. You’ve done something that I’m not sure I’d be able to summon up the will to do, and for that I’d say you’re a better man than me.

Take care and don’t give up.

Kind regards

Graham

[redpoint72]

Thanks graham. Ive not given up just yet....I've done all I can to keep things as stable as possible,at the moment. Unfortunately livers can at times be very unpredictable. I've been at this stage for nearly 4 years....so things have improved alot since my diagnosis....so keep plodding on!!!

My best. Chris

[Kellan38 in reply to redpoint72]

Hello again Chris

I’ve been so helped by your attitude and your willingness to do so despite your own problems, and I think you’re an inspiration because of that.

I’ll certainly keep plodding on, and I’ll let you know how I go on along the way.

You’re a really good bloke, Chris, and my life - and anyone’s life - is made all the better by the likes of you.

Best regards again

Graham

[Kellan38]

Hello again all

Further to my previous messages, I saw my GP just a few days ago, and whilst she said she didn’t have any real concerns due to the fact that I only had the one symptom of itching, she didn’t think there was very much wrong with me.

I think the doctor mainly based her assumption on the fact I told her that the itching is far worse when I dwell on it, and that I hardly have it at other times. She did, however says that if the itching were to continue, I should go back to see her again just after Christmas - which is what I intend to do.

I still think this story might have quite a long way to run, but I’m hoping against hope for a much happier conclusion than my very health anxious mindset is scripting me just now…

[andy-g]

I think the liver can some times be a silent assassin. I was unaware that there was a problem with my liver until an ultrasound in preparation for the removal of my gall bladder. The consultant radiologist told me I had fibrosis in my liver. All the signs of the problems with my liver were there but put together .I discovered I had hepatitis B ( born in Calcutta and lived all over S East Asia) I I was told of the fibrosis 20 years later..I don't remember anybody feeling my liver but I did have regular scans and ultrasounds.Thanks to the doctors at Kings and Southampton I was monitored from there on. Eventually the day came when I went on the transplant list on the fourth visit I received a transplant at Addenbrooks. I didn't ever allow myself to doubt I would receive one.we have all had different journeys but many of us have ended up in the same place.I always went to the hospital with no expectation of success .so I could never feel disappointed. I now have cancer and I have to put all my trust in the doctors,I never second guess them.. will I get through it , I don't know but I will take every day as a blessing and know I am one of the lucky ones. I have learnt it is not what you get that matters but what you get over. I hope it is all positive for you .The greatest incentive of all is wanting to be here.

[Kellan38 in reply to andy-g]

Thank you for your very thoughtful reply, Andy, and for taking the time to reply at such length and in such detail.

You come across to me as a giant of a man, and I’m in awe of the way that you have such a positive hold on life.

Thank you again for taking the time to write to me. I’ll need to read through it a few times to take in all you’ve said, as I’m sure wil, anyone else who happens to chance across it.

Regards and thanks again…

Graham

[andy-g in reply to Kellan38]

You are so welcome, life is about people and relationships when we need our strength we draw it from those around us, often strangers. I hope all goes well for you.

[Kellan38 in reply to andy-g]

Thank you again, Andy, and I hope it all goes as well as it can for you, too.