Urgent advice requested, please...

[Kellan38]

I’m extremely nervous about writing this post, because I fear as may be called a fool, but I’ve decided to face the fear anyway in the hope that I might find some help, and that someone might be kind enough to at least try to offer me a word or two of encouragement.

First of all, I’ve been extremely stupid. I’m 64, and I’ve enjoyed far more alcohol than I should should throughout my life.

I had a ‘bit of a scare’ 5 years ago when I had a few pains and a bit of discomfort around my liver, and hospital tests confirmed a very slight sliver of fat (in my liver) which had been the probable cause of my discomfort.

I’ve had a lifelong problem with health anxiety, and to get to that diagnosis, I had to live through weeks of fear and trepidation before the liver scan appointment at St James’ Hospital, Leeds, was to finally shine a light on the actual problem.

From that point on, I pledged to lose some weight and try to improve my diet - which I did - and to try to get fitter, which I also did, albeit that it took me around three years before I did that when I finally started on a new exercise routine which was largely based round running.

From being around 2st overweight - at around 14st - I started to work toward completing a 5k goal and a weight loss programme to bring me down to around 12st. I reached that on 2 occasions, though I had a lay-off of around 9 months before I started on my most recent attempt around 2 or 3 weeks ago.

Despite all the ‘good things’ I’ve done, I still liked to have a drink, and have been drinking around 10-12 bottles of beer a week during that time,

I realise now that I have been kidding myself that this particular amount of alcohol was safe, but I accept now that it isn’t.

Despite the fact that I have a relatively happy life, a steady enough job (would you believe in the NHS?) and a good relationship with a lovely girl (a non drinker), I have still felt the need of a ‘crutch’ at certain times, and have been all too ready to use alcohol to provide this ‘service’ for me.

In the past two or three weeks - and curiously at at time when I have just signed up with a proper running club - I have experienced a slight soreness in the area around my liver, and as this has radiated through to my back on a number of occasions, I am now terrified that something is terribly wrong, and that I may have cirrhosis or liver cancer - the latter of which killed my father although, especially cruelly, he had never been a drinker.

I have booked an appointment with my GP next Tuesday afternoon, and am extremely frightened as to what he might have to say. I feel sure that he will refer me again to St James’, which means weeks and weeks of anxious waiting before a probably certain diagnosis that something is irretrievably wrong.

I looked up the symptoms of cirrhosis and liver cancer on both the NHS and British Liver Trust websites, and could only tick 3 of them (out of a total of around 15) as being particularly applicable to me, but I am still extremely frightened due to the fact that the current soreness will soon be entering its third week, all of which makes me feel that it might be here to stay.

Could anyone offer me any hope at all that my situation might still be retrievable, and is there anything I could latch a bit of hope to in order to combat my terrible anxiety over all of this? I am now having sleepless nights because of the worry, and am struggling to do my job because of fear, so any help that you could offer at all would be very gratefully received.

Thank you for taking the time to read up to this point.

PS...I forgot to add that a recent round of routine blood tests - including LFT - all came back as normal, and whilst from reading various posts, I know that very few people on this Forum seem to set much store by them, I suppose they were done for a reason and tha the GP, at least, seems to think they matter somewhere along the line...

..........

[Casinobo]

Hi Graham,

I am sort of like you. I have health anxiety, Fatty Liver, High blood pressure, occasional rib pains LFTs are ok. Still drink a little about as much as you. I know the heat is coming from our fellow friends on here saying how poison alcohol is for you. I expect it on a Liver website. That being said, Its easy to become a hypochondriac from reading all the symptoms everyone gets in their journeys. This rib pain thing can be a host of things. As I get older, I have pains all over the place. They come and go. Seems like liver disease diagnosis is so freakin hard to diagnose until it’s way late. Seems to me being overweight, eating sugar, having any kind of hepatitis as well as drinking are all culprits of contributing factors. I am a person who can drink within the so called regulated limits of alcohol but I always worry about something going to get me. I wish you luck in your test results. Take care😀

[Kellan38 in reply to Casinobo]

Hello Casinobo

Many, many thanks for your advice.

I really did need someone to be reasonable with me and you, just like the other two people who have replied to me so far, have been exactly that. I'll be writing back to you all during the day (I'm actually at work now, so there's the reason for any delay), but it's good to chat with someone like yourself who has also suffered from health anxiety, and who knows how our minds can terrify us when we scour the internet!

I'll certainly stay in touch, so thanks very much again for your swift reply.

regards

Graham

[Hidden]

Ey up GrahamB8. I'm from Leeds myself. I can't tell you what's wrong as I've had the same pain for a year now, but if it helps my bloods are normal..had 2 blood tests, and my ultrasound was clear. I could be wrong and I'm sure someone will correct me if so, but I'm sure that most people of adult age have a little fat on their liver. As this pain has been going on for quite some years for you, do you have any other symptoms?

Since developing this pain myself I have searched the net for answers but have instead found many other people with the same pain and no diagnosis. What type if scan did you have? Maybe you could push for a better one to put your mind at ease. Try LGI, James's is a bit outdated now.

[Kellan38 in reply to Hidden]

Hello Yooks

Thank you for your quick reply - and good to hear from a fellow Yorky, and a Leeds lad to boot!

The last time I was seen at St James' it was for a CT scan of the liver. They only found a smallish sliver of fat, and said I was otherwise OK - especially the bloods, which they said were excellent.

All that is 5 years down the line, of course, and I have to deal with now, but I don't have any other real symptoms other than a very slight nervous reaction in the form of like a 'prickly' sensation at various points in my body at certain times. This seems to be connected, but I've had a very similar condition at various times since I was around 15, and all occurring in times of stress, as is the situation now with this...

Do you still drink, Yooks, and if so, is it of a comparable amount to me? I'm stopping completely now, at least until I can get this sorted, though to have that 'crutch' removed just at the time when I most need it is a further little problem I'm having to cope with now...

Regards and thanks

Graham

[Hidden in reply to Kellan38]

Im a leeds lass but often talk like a lad and could drink like a sailor 😂. I too suffer with the prickles, like pins and needles in my hands and feet, it happens with anxiety or if I get a sudden shock.

I was a heavy drinker..daily for around 3 years *its hazy* and weekends in my teen to twenties...and well over the reccomend amount. Myself and my husband got into port tasting and it pretty much went on from there. My problem was my tolerance, for such a small woman I could always drink most men under the table. In 18 weeks I've drank 3 times due to getting married and my honeymoon. I had drank the week before my blood test and 3 weeks before my ultrasound....nada!

I will say though that the pain improves significantly when I stop drinking alcohol, so this naturally leaves me confused as to why everything is coming back good. I have 2 young children so have decided that drinking is not going to be part of my life anymore, even if I've escaped serious damage up to this point...to continue to drink only means I'll deal with it at a later date, maybe when I'm too old to get well again. It's just not worth it. It's not the answer for everyone but I have found alcohol free beer and gin have been a great help. I drink peroni blue 0.0 alcohol and ginger cordial in tonic as I loved my crabbies ginger beer. I've trained my brain to look forward to cracking one open after work and I find it gives me the same relief that the real thing did...minus the anxiety and pain. If you like coffee treat yourself to a coffee machine and some good quality ground coffee...does wonders for the liver. If you're financially able to do so maybe look into the fibro scan, or alternatively ask your gp to refer you.

[AyrshireK]

You'll not get judged here Graham, sounds like you've had a wake up call, you are doing good re all your fitness and health changes yep if you want to make a real difference and give your liver a good chance of recovery the booze needs to ease significantly or stop.

We obviously have loved ones on here who lost nearest and dearest due to booze related liver disease and they can often come on strong but it is only through dedication to trying to stop others sliding the same way.

I would go to your GP's and get investigations done. This could be something as simple as muscular pain due to your fitness regime and running - various things can happen in the rib cage department.

Also, the liver itself has no pain receptors so you don't technically get a liver pain and that's why liver disease is said to be silent and many folks don't discover they have it until it is very advanced and symptomatic. Liver is however surrounded by a membrane called the Glisson's Capsule and if your liver is very enlarged it can press on this or stretch it and that can be painful.

Gall bladder is also in the same area and issues with gall stones can cause pain that radiates.

If those all get ruled out make sure you also have a discussion about your father's situation, he died of liver cancer without being a drinker - did they ever investigate why he had liver cancer? It could just be one of those things, was it secondary to cancer elsewhere? or did they ever do tests for other liver illnesses which can lead to liver tumours/cancers. Some of these can be genetic or hereditary.

A few possibilities to be investigated, get the ball rolling, get the GP appointment, if it then means a wait to go to St. James's they so be it but get tests done. You know your body and if something isn't right you need to find out so they/you can start putting it right.

All the best,

Katie

[Kellan38 in reply to AyrshireK]

Hello Katie

Thank you for your reply, and your kind words about not judging me...

My father's liver cancer was, I think, secondary to cancer of the pancreas. He was a previously very healthy man, but the disease was especially cruel to him, and brought him to a terrible end. That was 25 years ago, but I still shudder at the thought of it now every time it comes to mind...

I'll discuss the hereditary aspect of the above with my GP when I see him next week, so thank you for the prompt to mention that.

Thank you again for your kind reply.

Regards

Graham

[dustybobs]

Hi Graham,

I had a wake up call a year ago, nothing serious, but a fibroscan that showed fibrosis. I saw my GP, got worked up and a hepatologist advised I stick to the 14 units or less a week, and get an ELF test ( blood test) repeated in a year. I tried but found moderating alcohol too hard, so quit all together. Love my sober life, and there is so much support online if you choose that route. Soberistas, Soberful, and many others. My heavy drinking OH was so impressed with how better my life was that he has gone Alcohol Free too. It sounds like you’ll make the best decision for you. If you can stick to 14 units, then that’s great. Good luck.

[CocoChannel]

You’ve done all the right things (apart from those beers), and you’re seeing the doc to get checked.

I’m a bit younger but pretty similar. I went from being overweight/obese to normal weight through exercise and cutting drink, but I still had nagging aches and pains in the right ribs area. I did have a mild fatty liver, and the docs said this was the probable cause. I then quit drinking, and the pains gradually faded, but it took a good few months. Best to get checked. Good luck with the doc and the 5K.

[Kellan38 in reply to CocoChannel]

Thank you for your reply, CocoChannel

Very well done with stopping drinking, and well done, too, for losing the weight. You sound like you're well on the way to recovery, and I can only applaud you for that. I only hope I can get there, too, at some time in the near future...

Regards and thanks again

Graham

[CocoChannel in reply to Kellan38]

Sounds like you’re 90% there. Think about quitting the ale altogether, though. It’s actually easier than trying to moderate - and I was on 70 and then 40 units a week which I think is more than you drink now. That 14 unit weekly limit is more to reduce the risk of certain cancers, e.g. throat and bowel, so is well worth sticking within. If, like my former self, you think this is too “unsatisfying” a quantity, quitting is the only option.

If you’re still doing the 5k, it’s much easier to run without last night’s intake sloshing about. Good luck again. If the doc says all OK and you quit for good, I reckon those aches will be gone.

[Kellan38 in reply to CocoChannel]

Thank you again, CocoChannel

My only worry about the quantity I the accumulated damage over the years. I'm 64 now, and you sound so much younger, but I'm hanging on the fact that my blood tests were all OK just a couple of months ago, and hoping that any cancers might have somehow shown up then, which obviously wasn't the case.

It's good to have got to know you, and I'm really grateful that you wrote again.

regards

Graham

[CocoChannel in reply to Kellan38]

I’m coming up to 50, but it’s probably wrong to talk about age when it’s all about genes, general health and of course alcohol intake.

All I can say is my liver forgave me for years of abuse, surprisingly quickly too. An ex-drinker would have a slightly higher cancer risk due to past bad habits I guess, but there’s not much to be done about that except to look ahead and live healthily. You sound pretty active, so don’t underestimate the benefits that brings.

[Kellan38]

Thank you for your reply, Dustybobs

My first goal is try to find out that I'm not in any danger of imminent death. I realise that might sound over-dramatic, but that's the threat that I feel that I'm facing now, and all my live is on hold until I can at least be re-assured of that.

Once I reach that happy state, I hope I can get my drinking down to zero, but that seems a long, long way away just now, not because I lack the will, but because of the terrible that I am struggling with just now...

Kind regards, and many thanks again

Graham

[Hidden]

Good morning GrahamB8,

I can see you are getting lots of support from our lovely forum members and have already accessed the British Liver Trust information.

We also have a helpline, answered by nurses which is available Mon-Fri 10am-14.45pm on 0800 652 7330.

Best wishes,

Trust9

[Kellan38 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you, Trudy

I saw your post a couple of minutes too late, and am at work anyway, otherwise I would have called. I'll certainly call next week, though, and look forward to speaking to someone then.

Kind regards

Graham

[Katiesgran]

I think you have answered all of your own questions. Firstly you have had all the checks and they are clear. Secondly you know you drink too much and can do something about that. My advice? Stop. Or only have a couple of drinks on special occasions only. You do miss social drinking but it’s not worth losing your health or even life for. So, make the sensible changes re weight, exercise and drinking and just feel very lucky that you have this chance to have a long and healthy life, many of us are not so fortunate. But, if you are still concerned, get back to your go and ask for reassurance that your liver is not compromised. If you get that, get out there and enjoy your life. Good luck and take care.

[Kellan38 in reply to Katiesgran]

Thank you, Katie’sgran

That’s very kind of you to give me that assurance.

The main two things that are frightening me are that the main liver tests were done 5 years ago, so are well out of date by now, and the second is that when I’ve looked into the lists of symptoms that denote cirrhosis, I’ve noticed that in a lot of cases those symptoms only appear only appear when the damage is already very advanced.

I mainly worry now because of the discomfort around my liver, and because of the slight ‘tickling’ rather than itching symptoms that I have. What I’m assuming to be ‘itching’ is - for me at least - mainly just little pinpricks or brief tickling sensations which pass in an instant and don’t stay around for longer than a couple of seconds at most.

I’m not exactly sure if the kind of itching that is common amongst cirrhosis sufferers in something else altogether, as mine tends to come and go and is far worse when I’m anxious than when I’m relaxed and have my mind on other things. For that reason, I do wonder - and hope - that it might be merely anxiety related rather than being anything else.

As well as asking the doctor for advice on my overall fears, I’m also planning to ask him for a temporary course of tablets to try to manage my anxiety because my own attempts at doing so have all failed me so far,

[Katiesgran]

Well as a self confessed hypochondriac I can understand your anxiety but usually find that once I’ve faced my fears and if they have been unfounded some of my symptoms magically disappear. On the other hand despite scans and blood tests showing fatty liver and being told not to worry about it for several years I suddenly get told 3 years ago I have cirrhosis, caused by non alcohol fatty liver disease. So, get checked, question everything, but if you’re ok now you know you’re still at risk and need to change your lifestyle permanently. Wish I had been given that chance before it was much too late. Hope everything works out for you.

[Ellewoods1 in reply to Katiesgran]

Me too.

[Kellan38 in reply to Ellewoods1]

Thank you, Ellewoods1...