For those of you following Max and Keira’s law, here is the bill:-
Presumed consent : For those of you... - British Liver Trust
Presumed consent
29 Replies
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Thanks Snoutie. I had to take a couple of tea breaks whilst I sorted through the acts and subsections etc but think I'm with it now. Hopefully sometime soon it will be printed in good old Plain English so that everyone can understand on first read. Marvellous step forward though. Alf
in reply to alfredthegreat
It is making great progress, a fantastic step forward. My wait was 19 months on the list.
Good to see one thing getting through the Commons, it has the full support of the House. I am looking forward to seeing it pass.
It's unbelievable the number of people on social media objecting to presumed consent on the grounds of "my body my choice", "the government doesn't own my organs", etc yet most likely would happily accept a donated organ should they ever need one.
gizmo67 in reply to
Simples...... If you opt out of organ donation then you should NOT be able to receive a transplant if you unfortunately end up needing one. Might make people re-consider their opinions.
TonyHarrison in reply to
I had an argument on social media with someone who, at present, carries a donor card....but is going to opt out because of `my body, my choice`. Maybe I`m a bit stupid...but I REALLY don`t understand that.....
in reply to TonyHarrison
I hope that their relatives are not equally confused?
Supportinghubby in reply to
Years ago I used to argue with my mum, who didn't want to be an organ donor because she thought medics wouldn't work as hard to 'save her', & say that she shouldn't be allowed to receive an organ should she ever need to. I need to ask her if she's changed her mind since family members should know their intentions but I'm not looking forward to the conversation. Knowing my husband's situation I would hope she's changed her mind but if not I think it will be very hard for me not to have a big row!
Prompted by this I just had the discussion with my mum, who has now changed her mind & would be an organ donor. Phew - not sure I could have got passed it if she hadn't!
in reply to Supportinghubby
Good work 👍
in reply to Supportinghubby
Well done on convincing mum to do the right thing 🙂
That's another argument that seems to come up a lot: "I don't want to donate as the doctors wouldn't work as hard to save me". I don't get why they would sacrifice one person to potentially save a few others but some people just love a good conspiracy theory I guess.
in reply to
Its so true. Theyll take but wont give. Isnt that most humans tho? Want the highest pay for their work but want to pay everyone else around them the least possible for their work. I agree with gizmo in that of you sign out of donation you are signing out of recieving as well. Whats the current gender ratios on the cause named "my body, my choice"? Huge amount of males on board I suspect.
Again you want to opt out fine thats your choice. But you dont get to play the field. In or out. Id gladly volunteer to tell a patient who opted out of donatating because apparently their "sacred vessel" is worth more dead and rotting than a living human life is worth thriving with that organ , to go **** themselves and that they should have thought of that when they were soaking for hours in the pampered bath of their own hubris. Not only would I volunteer but id give a donation of money to the transplant centre for giving me the privledge to do so. This world forgets the honour in being humble and is in serious need of a wake up call that the Earth doesn't revolve around human existence. This self entitlement of people is disgusting. A person wont give a living organ to a living person even in their own death? Perpetual children all of them. " No it my toy, its my toy its mine its mine".
I think not giving transplants to those who opt out is a great way to thin the heard.
in reply to
Come on Phoenix, stop sitting on the fence.
in reply to
Lol! I guess I did come across a bit wavering in how I feel on the topic. 😅
You know me Mark, I just say it how it is.
in reply to
The religious argument is the one that gets on my nerves the most. If having your organs intact is a pre requisite for resurrection and/or going to heaven, surely having a transplant would also mean losing the opportunity to meet the almighty. Guess I can forget about the pearly gates now 😏
in reply to
You could always throw in a Viking long boat.
in reply to
Well said! Also what kind of god would not want you to save one of his creations with an earth bound part of you that you dont need in heaven? Not a very savvy businessman throwing away perfectly good parts like that. The overhead must be massive!
Thanks, snoutie. Congrats and well done to my British cousins for this achievement. The U.S. is light years away from such a concept due to concerns about ‘individual rights.’
I love this very cool system in Israel, using good old self-interest: “There is a special incentive to donate organs: If you ever need an organ transplant, you'll be given priority as a recipient over someone who isn't a donor.“ (ABC News, 2013)
Donating seems such an inherently simple decision to me — it’s hard to accept the many cultural, religious and administrative barriers to it.
Here is an interesting international perspective from Feb. 2018. You Brits were the lead story! nytimes.com/2018/02/23/worl...
The UK organ donation authority have produced some fantastic literature to debunk a lot of the myths in relation to religion, will try to post a link.
George
Thank you, George, I would love to see any info you provide!
Hi there
nhsbt.nhs.uk/how-you-can-he...
AyrshireK, has already posted link to individual cards. little things like that can make a huge difference.
George
Thank you for the link and for directing me to Katie. Appreciated!
Hi snoutie,
Thank you for the taking the time to post the link.
I'm still not sure how I would feel about this. I don't like product or app trials where the first few weeks are free, but you are required to give your credit card information then if you decide you want to cancel a paid subscription You are required to opt out.
I remain ambivalent - on the one hand I think how great it would be with an increase of organs for those who need them - possibly me or mine. On the other hand - I fear that the option, in some cases, may not be made clear and some who would not want for religious or other reasons would not understand or even be told their options. And I'm not sure that public benefit should outweigh personal rights - thus my ambivalence.
It seems I am in the minority.
Best wishes to all.
Mary
in reply to mncold
Mary,
It is presumed consent, make sure that your close ones are aware of your beliefs. They have the final say.
One persons freedom can have an impact on another persons right. Yes you are free to drive a absurdly large 4 wheel drive that does 10mpg, I have the right to breathe clean air to protect my health.
It is a question of balancing the ‘freedoms’ of one individual over the rights of others.
This is not a compulsory law, it starts on the basis that you are willing to donate your organs. I also believe that if you actively opt out of giving, you opt out of receiving. Demand outstrips supply.
Mark.
in reply to
Damn straight. If i was religious id say Amen to that!
It's great that it's passed through but opt out (soft opt out) has repeatedly been shown to decrease the number of donations.
At least it paves the way for the conversation, although how productive those conversations will be I don't know. I ended up in a bit of an argument with someone on Mumsnet (I know, I know) earlier in the week who said they would now opt out (after having opted in previously) because "the state shouldn't own my body". Mumsnet is a bit of a cesspit of ignorance though.
There should be more education on the transplant process to be honest - people don't seem to realise it's not the government owning your body. It's people like them who are getting one last chance of life.
in reply to Divg
Totally agree that people need educating. It is ‘presumed’ consent.
The process is fairly simple in that you change the words on the DVLA form. Organ donation should change to I opt out. People who actively want to opt out should be able to access cards and leaflets at GP surgeries and Hospital.
Thank you for posting Hidden
Trust1
There is no 'major' faith group or religion in the UK which doesn't support organ donation or bars their followers from donating. The UK Organ Donation Card indeed has separate cards which people of the different faith groups can print off and carry.
Information is available on line at:- nhsbt.nhs.uk/how-you-can-he...
organdonation.nhs.uk/about-...
It's good to get the discussion going and the different religious groups do need to let their followers know that they can donate. Sadly, patients from black, Asian and other ethnic minorities do seem to have crazy long waits for other organs which have to be tissue type matched rather than just blood group and size for livers.
People do need to let their nearest and dearest know of their wishes, personally I can think of no greater gift to give if you have died tragically and suddenly than to give others the chance of life. A donor is never forgotten - not only by their own families but by the recipient plus their wider circle of family and friends. Yes, relatives get asked the question at the most tragic of times but if you are able to say "oh yes, I knew for sure he/she wanted to give others the chance to live" the answer is more likely to be a positive rather than a refusal.
Keep educating everyone, you recipients already do a grand job of living well and honouring your donors and making sure that people know that without that gift you either wouldn't be here now or in a very bad way.
Katie x
These are fantastic, Katie, thank you.
