Liver pain. How long to repair? Am I doing it right? Feeling frustrated and on my own with it.

After a bit of a bad phase and far too many binge drinking sessions, I woke one morning with horrendous pain in my right side and a swollen/rock hard liver. Docs ran Liver function, test Gamma GT raised (80) but not severely high but higher than it should be, my doctor was unalarmed but sent for ultrasound. Two of those revealed nothing major, no gall or kidney stones either but fatty liver with mild hepatic steatosis and just recommended ‘lifestyle adaptions’ and steatosis might still be reversible.

With my 40th birthday just a few weeks away and a very ‘alcohol' related lifestyle (work in a nightclub and sing in pubs so often given lots of free drinks or in an environment where I could have a drink a lot). I tried my hardest to cut down from around 4 nights per week to 1 or 2 but even that was not enough. Every time I drank I was in such pain the next day. My GP tells me it’s not possible to have liver pain and that I must just be "more aware” and to not worry so much but as most of you I guess will know, liver pain is bloomin’ awful and very real!

So I have now stopped alcohol completely, 2 full weeks (and set to continue for a while at least) but even after 2 weeks without any drink I’m still in pain. I sit most nights with a cushion under my right side as I feel so uncomfortable, have tried ice packs, hot water bottles. Can’t take pain killers as don’t want to liver to have to work harder. Have tried juicing detox (disgusting), eating avocados, taking Milk thistle, you name it!

I’m constantly holding my right rib and rubbing to ease the ache.

It’s really starting to get me down.

I’ve cut my ties with my local pub completely so I’m not tempted, meet the odd friend for a glass of water lol. At some point it would be nice to have the odd drink again, a wedding, birthday, special event etc but even if I couldn’t or didn’t ever have a drink again it’s the pain more than anything that’s getting me down. I’m not sleeping very well because I’m always uncomfortable when sitting or lying down.

I’d really like any more advice on liver repair. What this could be? What I should do next. Etc?

I’m gonna go back to the doctor, might see somebody different as I don’t need to be told I’m over thinking it (hence my user name).

I feel a bit annoyed that I've just been sent on my merry way (no pun intended) to just get on with it and 'repair it'.

Any advice or similar situations and cures would be great please?

[jojokarak]

The consultants /doctors will always say you can't get pain in your liver but I used to get and it is a very real pain. I never had constantly but every now and again.... I feel you may be overthinking and focusing to much on what you have been told.

You have been given a warning and as long you take it seriously you have the power to turn outcome of your life around. 80 for bilirubin is absolutely nothing to worry about mine was over 400 + at points and people's on here have had higher

Change your diet, exercise, and no alcohol and within 6 months your going to feel fantastic and you won't even miss alcohol.. me and you are same age and I got diagnosed with cirrhosis over 4 years ago, I gave up alcohol the day I was diagnosed I have never missed it... life was hell though I just existed for my late 30's so take the warning you have been given serious and don't give up it will be worth it.. just give your body time to adjust to changes and the pain will ease off just try to get on with your life it will go and you won't even notice

Good luck and let us know how you get on x

[sheri44 in reply to jojokarak]

I also got pain in my right side under my rib. Horrible. I believe It's liver pain regardless whether docs say you can't feel it or not. I'd be holding myself where the pain was, sometimes arching my back a bit to try and take the pressure off it. Jojo's advice is really good. Hope you get sorted and are pain free soon x

[Melodymermaid888]

Liver pain is real. I suffer with liver cysts and was told again and again they shouldn't cause pain. My husband eventually kicked up such a fuss and demanded something be done. In may I had 40% of my liver removed and when my surgeon came around to see me. His words where " worse then anyone thought and we wouldn't have lasted another week".

Don't know if he meant they would have erupted or something even more sinister.

Yes you pain could be nothing but a lifestyle change but either way if your suffering go see another doctor. And best of luck to you x

[beka]

You are describeing a pain I had to go through way too long before I finally found that it was my Gall Bladder and not my Liver. I didn't even have cirrhosis at that time tho I had made a couple trips to the hospital because my binges had attacked my pancreas. It was in one if those trips they discovered I had Gall Stone's. I had my gall bladder removed and never had that stabbing pain again

[jojokarak in reply to beka]

Beka they have had a scan on no kidney or gall stones would of solved problem better but people who have a damaged liver do get pain in it x

[sheri44 in reply to jojokarak]

very true x

[tyleri in reply to beka]

it would be worth investigating if you do have a gall bladder problem. I had liver problems and gall bladder pain at the same time. Hope things improve for you.

[Michiganpbc]

I have PBC and liver area pain was my first symptom, the pain comes from the capsule the liver sits in so doctors are taught to deny actual liver pain. I would ask for tests to rule out other things to make sure this is what it is then ask for a safe pain medication, I use a heating pad and walk then low doses of Tylenol ask your doctor first it's not safe for everyone. But for me it is so I can take it. Let us know what they say good luck.

[briccolone]

fatty liver can also cause pain although your GGT levels are relatively low (80)-highly unlikely you have serious liver damage but you may as well get used to the new lifestyle. It's not just liver issues to worry about with alcohol-its the higher risk of cancer. Keep it down to the new guidelines of 14 units or less per week, I wish I had my GGT levels are through the roof now.

[gemgirl67 in reply to briccolone]

I have my ultrasound scan on my pelvis and abdomen in a weeks time. After cutting out the coffee and not drinking alcohol the weekend before the third blood tests, they all came back as normal thankfully. My gamma levels had gone back to a normal level. But I am worrying because the last two Saturday nights have been out and drank lager. Have started getting a dull ache in my right side under the rib cage, but not sure if that is because have gone back to eating bad food again. Also the doctor rang hepatitis blood tests and they were normal too.

[Hidden]

I was in your situation your liver cant recover but you can stabilize it by staying sober sadly theres no in between if you had a good doctor they would tell you the truth the pain is cirriosis it ur liver blowing up because its diseased i stopped drinking 3 years ago and i have stayed sober that is what you must do you have your warning signs now your liver is packing up save it before it kills you hun and you need a lifestyle check too i had to disassociate with ever drinker i knew if i had not id be dead now you need to choose life or death i chose life its gonna be a gard road but if you do 1 day at a time you will beat the demon drink

[jojokarak in reply to Hidden]

You are giving wrong advice the liver CAN recover where you have got your information from is very bad

The liver is a regenerative organ as long as too much damage hasn't been caused, this person has been told they have fatty liver and not cirrhosis there is a very big difference, as long as they change lifestyle now they will be able to turn things around....

You really need to educate yourself as the comment you made could really upset people who are uncertain and then go and ask your doctor /consultant what is actually wrong with your liver

[Bigsam79 in reply to jojokarak]

Well said! That comment made me angry.

[Smet in reply to jojokarak]

Jojokarak before you go accusing people of giving terrible advice, you may want to educate yourself. First you are correct fatty liver in and of itself is reversible if changes to lifestyle are made and it is caught early enough because the liver does regenerate. However, the person who created this thread also said she was diagnosed with mild steatohepatitis. At this stage of fatty liver disease she already has fibrosis occuring (she did not mention at what stage of fibrosis she is). Fibrosis is scar tissue and bc scar tissue does not have regenerative properties, it is irreversible. She may be able to slow the progression of the fibrosis but she will never be able to have 100% use of her liver again. There are many stages between to fatty liver and cirrhosis. I suggest you read up on them. There are stages of liver disease/failure and stages of fibrosis. I am a registered nurse and was diagnosed with NAFLD 13 years ago and recently found out that due to my diabetes my liver is now at NASH stage 2/3 with fibrosis stage 2. All though my failure is not alcohol related, the liver disease/failure progression is the same.

[AyrshireK in reply to Smet]

Jo-Jo was responding to someone who was giving out very doom and gloom and inaccurate advice. Current medical thinking has changed. Yes it used to be thought that cirrhosis couldn't reverse, however, even the British Liver Trust now promotes the up to date information that cirrhosis is to some degree reversible. At the fibrosis stage it can certainly be reversed and the patient could have taken steps to prevent worsening.

This is a direct copy & paste from the BLT page on Cirrhosis :- britishlivertrust.org.uk/li...

Reversing the problem

Until recently, it was thought that a liver with cirrhosis could not be healed. This is usually the case because most diseases that cause scarring of your liver (fibrosis) are long-term and difficult to ‘cure’.However, recent research has shown that it may be possible to heal scarring and even cirrhosis where the liver disease causing this damage is able to be successfully treated.

You are probably correct in that the poster wouldn't regain 100% functionality or fully cure the damaged liver, however, she also wasn't on a one way trip to doom and gloom which was what Jo-Jo was reacting too.

Katie

[IoanaCristina in reply to Smet]

Smet, I have PBC and no cirrhosis. Been having liver pains and these can have various causes, not necessarily cirrhosis. Actually cirrhosis is usually silent until later stages. Please do not give such verdicts to people without knowing the details and without being a doctor. Thank you.

[Hidden]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

You may find The British Liver Trust publication on Alcohol and Liver disease useful;

britishlivertrust.org.uk/wp...

Also, with regards to the use of milk thistle, please be aware that The British Liver Trust does not recommend the use of any homeopathic or herbal remedies for those with any liver problems as these have to be processed by the liver and can actually damage the liver and lead to severe illness.

More research needs to be done on the use and safety of such remedies and therapies.

Homeopathic remedies are unregulated in the UK and concentrations of active ingredients vary by brand purchased. If you are considering using complementary or alternative remedies &/or therapies please always discuss this with your liver doctor first. Also discuss the use of juicing detox's with them too.

With regards to your liver pain, you can ask for a referral to a liver specialist for further investigations and specialist advice, your GP can provide the referral.

If you would like to discuss any concerns please ring our helpline on 0800 652 7330

Warm wishes,

Rebecca

[Nhaamor51]

Not everyone reacts the same way to a disease. So if you have constant pain in your ruq then it is telling you something is wrong. Could it be related to alcohol? Sure but almost anything can be related to alcohol. If when you stopped drinking altogether your pain continued then something more than alcohol is going on. When was your last complete physcial? I'm only saying this because I am the queen of ruq abd pain. For 4 years I was treated by a gastroenterologist and a rheumatologist both would ask about pain and I would tell them the same thing. I have ruq abd pain that is worse after I eat. Sometimes it is so bad I cannot do anything but lay in bed with a pillow under my back. I would tell them this every time and one time the doc looks at me and says "The liver doesn't feel pain"!! I just shook my head and let it pass. The thing is my whole life was dominated by this pain. I would be fine one minute and the next bam I'm down for the rest of the day. After 4 years and every test know to man they still didn't have an answer. The first diagnosis was Sarcoidosis of the liver. I got treated for that for two years now just recently had another biopsy of the liver which didn't show much other than fibrosis and inflammatory changes. Just had an ERCP and the GI doc said my common bile duct was three times larger than normal and my sphincter of Oddi was so tight he had to cut it open just to get into it. So now the diagnosis is SOD which is an extremely painful condition where the bile does not flow through into the duodenum like normal due to a faulty sphincter causing debilitating pain in the RUQ. Several months ago I asked my GI doc if this could be the problem and he blew me off saying that that condition is very rare. So as soon as that procedure was over the first thing I did was fire him. I wrote him and told him that I suffered needlessly for 4 years and you never once addressed the pain issue. If you would have taken me seriously and actually looked over my labs you would have seen that everytime I had a bad spell my liver enzymes and my alk phos would go obver 500. The last time I checked when your enzymes are elevated it means you are destroying liver cells!! Now you want me to go home and just deal with this pain knowing that everyday that passes untreated is a day closer to liver failure. I was to over him. The only doctor that believed me was my PCP. Lucky because he treated my pain. If not for him I would have gone.

In one way we are lucky because most people do not find out about their liver disease until it's to late but because of the pain I have not reached the point of no return and will search until I can find a competent hepatologist who takes my symptoms seriously.

[Nhaamor51]

I am going to go back into the deep end again by saying just because a radiologist looked at an ultrasound and puts on the report fatty liver disease does not now mean this is your diagnosis. I'm sorry but I have had multiple ultrasounds through the years as far back as 10 years ago and as recently as a few months ago and they all said fatty liver disease. It's pretty bad when the radiologist goes back and pretty much rubber stamps the inaccurate diagnosis of the doctor before him. I have had two biopsies at different times and neither time did they see any fat in this liver. They saw granulomas and fibrosis mixed up with inflammatory changes but not one speck of fat. Before anyone starts yelling that is only a tiny bit of your liver my surgeon actually did a laporoscopy so she could visualize my liver while obtaining biopsies. This was all done because the wonderful Fibroscan said I had stage 4 liver disease. The only thing I can count on being correct is the pain I feel and my abnormal liver enzymes. I guess what I'm trying to say is an ultrasound is not an exact study. I have found especially in the autoimmune category that what was thought to be fatty liver was indeed something else. The problem is that an autoimmune disease needs a completely different plan of care and yes eating a more healthy diet may help but it will only do so much. So if in doubt keep asking.

[Hidden]

Thanks for all of your comments. I went back to GP today, saw somebody different to my usual doctor. I said I'm still in pain and being told fatty liver and sent on my way is not good enough. She's running a full set of bloods tomorrow with new liver function (at least this will give me a comparison result to last time) Yes GGT 80 was not hugely high but as it is meant to be between 0-30 then it was still triple. I'll be interested to know what they're reading now with 15 days off the booze and 4 weeks previous on only 14-20 units per week (a massive drop from previously)

I suffered a brain haemorrhage and two strokes in my early 20's, it left me with residual neurological effects which was probably what turned me in to such a heavy drinker ( a kind of YOLO approach to life when you've been on the table and had brain surgery at 22 I guess you just wanna live life to the party max after). Unfortunately I had years of bad experiences with doctors, misdiagnosis ( I sued my local hospital when they sent me home with a brain H without checking me properly) so I find it hard to trust them. Also years of prescription medication for that can't have done my liver any favours.

We'll see what the next set of results say and go from there. I am going to try asking to be referred to a heptologist too to get a better opinion. From the sounds of things I do not have 'major' liver issues especially by comparison to some but I do want to stop being in pain all the time so I can get on with my life. x

[jojokarak in reply to Hidden]

Glad you been back to gp no harm in double checking everything... don't get hopes up just yet your bilirubin won't change that much in 2 weeks but keep the spirit up and it will lower. we all have our reasons for why we have over indulged in our lives but don't focus on that your health scares from when you were younger prove your a fighter and strong!!

I know it doesn't feel like it at moment but if your blood's show no worrying results your pain will go it's just saying I struggling at moment help!! and I do believe you are doing what you can to turn it around.. let us know how you get on x

[RodeoJoe in reply to jojokarak]

Hi JoJo are you mixing up your bilirubins with GGT? I think a billirubin level of 80 is potentially much more serious than a GGT.

[jojokarak in reply to RodeoJoe]

Lol I did oh well my mistake x

[briccolone in reply to jojokarak]

I knew what you meant though 😜

[RodeoJoe in reply to briccolone]

Throughout my treatment and transplant I would call bilirubin billyboobin. I did this with consultants, Dr's nurses etc. It made me laugh (inside) every time as I was never corrected.

I also used the word canulator instead of cannula, which made my other half laugh (inside), as I had no idea I was saying it wrong and she didn't point it out until months after transplant.

[Addicted]

How are you doing now OP?

Your story sounds like mine, been sober 6 weeks stopped due to same pain you described. Still hurts but mostly at night. I think milk thistle makes it worse. But so does eating fatty foods so maybe gall bladder? Blood tests don't concern the doctor.

On the plus side, I'm sober and lost 15 lbs in 4 weeks.

[Darkdog in reply to Addicted]

Sorry for the post but I felt like this post needs to be revived again. Such a great conversation happening.

I also would like to add that I have been a victim of RUQ pain and US revealed fatty liver. My liver enzymes are normal but as compare to getting pain every day, now my pain has subsided after my dietary changes. However, I do get pain but not too extent where I am breathless or hurting. It just a nagging pain which happens if I sit a lot and not having a good posture. I also noticed that if you put less stress on your liver meaning don’t slouch too much, this might help.

One thing which irritates me is the an crunches. If I do an crunches then the RUQ pain is just on fire and will stay like that for couple of days till it eases down. I felt bad that I won’t be able to have ABS due to this pain and I just wonder if experienced members can reply back as to when this pain might go away or wil it ever go away ?

[Jam24]

Could I ask a question as I have similar discomfort. Is your condition tender to touch? As mine is not? I just feel it, like a cramping feeling, but when I press on the area there is nothing. I'd expect to feel tender when pushing my fingers under my right rib, but I feel nothing? I've had a million tests which all show nothing extraordinary? I will say that my condition is definitely enflammed by drink.