A Pickle Can Never Be A Cucumber Again..

[dckimberly]

Hi there!

It's me..Kimberly.

Lately, and in the past, I have seen some posts mentioning alcohol, alcoholism and heavy drinking.

I often respond to those posts and try to offer advice and compassion.

But, I thought that I might write a post that could help someone with questions about drinking, or wondering if they are alcoholics. I myself am a recovering alcoholic. I actually quit altogether 3 and a half years before I got sick. I was blown away, to say the least. I did not see it coming. I was always told the liver can regenerate itself..and yes, it can, but only to a certain point.

One thing all of us that are sick with liver disease have been told, is to stop, all together.

Now, I certainly do not have all the answers, and I am NOT a doctor or a nurse, or a psychologist. But next month, by the grace of the universe, I will be celebrating 8 years. I was in many treatments centers over the previous 20 plus years, and I learned a lot. I also am in weekly contact with other recovering alcoholics, and we all work together to not only stay sober, but to become different people..they say the same man will drink again...so I am working, a day at a time to NOT be that same sad, angry, lonely resentful woman. I have so much to be grateful for!

One of them is this forum!! It also plays a huge part in my sobriety!

For those of you wondering, either for yourself or for a loved one, or those of you struggling to stop..here some of the questions that were put to me, along with millions of others in the last 75plus years of alcohol treatment.

You say your a hard drinker? How hard is hard? Drinking I mean? Do you drink everyday? Were you a weekend binge drinker? Do you drink to be more social? To give you courage? Because you are sad or depressed? Or just because it's Monday?

*Did you have any consequences to your drinking? Such as: being late to work or missing it all together, due to hangovers or being drunk?

*Has it caused you problems with any relationships in your life?

*Did you ever vomit blood? Or see it in your stool? Do you shake or feel sick if you do not have any alcohol?

*Did you ever tell yourself you were going to quit drinking..tomorrow, but it never happened?

*Did you try switching what type of alcohol you drank for different results? Such as, wine makes me sick, so Ill try whiskey, etc.

*Did you start to find yourself maybe going to cheaper pubs, or hanging out with people you would not of before?

*Do you lie to anyone about how much you drink?

*Did you try and hide your drinking? Or hide bottles so people would not know?

*Did you get the shakes, or do you shake if you don't have a drink?

*Have you had drunk driving arrests? If you have had more than one, do you wonder why you continue to drive and drink?

*Have you had any arrests where alcohol was involved?

and lastly..

*do you ever 'lose time' or forget what happened the night before? Blacked out?

Please don't think I'm judging you. I'm not. I'm only asking because if you are so concerned and still drinking? Then you might be an alcoholic..not just a hard drinker.

Alcoholics tend to drink in spite of the consequences. In fact..they drink more.

If none of this applies..GREAT!

If you answer yes to 3 or so of these..then you should know..a pickle can never be a cucumber again. Meaning..if you are an alcoholic, there is, sadly, no way to reverse this. BUT let me note, if you have black outs or lost time..most specialists feel this is the one issue that automatically means you are an alcoholic. Blackouts seem to only happen to us, on a regular basis. (I'm not talking about if you passed out 6 years ago and woke up somewhere strange..BUT if that happens a couple of times and you don't know when it might happen again, then this would most likely apply to you)

But only you can decide if your an alcoholic or not. Theirs a big difference between admitting you are and knowing you are!

For me, a twelve step program saved my life! literally! You might want to try a meeting, or two..sometimes you don't find the right one for you the first time..and often, you feel so overwhelmed..you might forget everything. It's not a cult..and yes, they do believe in the Higher Power..but that can be anything you want it to be, as long as it's not you. They also have meetings for atheists and agnostics.

Speak to your GP if you have concerns and ask for help.

Alcoholism is a DISEASE. We are made differently than other people. You are not weak. your are not being stubborn or willful. You do not lack courage..you are sick. You are sick with a disease that tells you first and foremost that no, you ARE NOT an alcoholic.

Alcoholism effects us physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually.

They say the road ahead of us if we continue drinking only leads to three places..jails, institutions and death. period.

If your GP does not take you seriously, find another GP.

If you do try to stop on your own and find yourself getting sick and shaky go to the ER or A&E immediately. Many of us need to be detoxed medically in order to stop.

finally..it does not matter how much you drink..that is one of the biggest misconceptions out there..and no, you may not drink everyday, or get sick when you don't. How much or how little makes no difference..It's WHY you drink that matters.

Alcohol can effect anyone at any age..rich or poor, black or white, young or old..

Sorry to go on and on! If anyone else who is in recovery has anything to add, please do so. I understand that AA is not as big a deal here in the UK as it is in the USA, and thats ok. You may want to see a psychiatrist, or go to your church for help. I go to AA because since the 1930's it has the highest success rate in the world for treating alcoholism..so, in my mind..lol, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. In fact, often in the US, your doctor asks you to go to meetings right away. And liver specialists will ask you if you are in AA and how your program is going etc. (If they know you have a drinking problem, I mean)

I hope this might be of help to someone. If not, maybe down the road you might need or want to come back and read it.

I am just so grateful to this group of people. It's so great not feel alone with my illness, and to know people really care about me..so I just want to give back..in the way that I can.

Again, I'm not a doctor..just a drunk who miraculously got sober.

Cheering EVERYONE on!

XXXXXX

kimberly

[pear-shaped]

Hello Hun,

Good to see your back on top form again!

I wanted to say that I love this post and think your such a cool person... Often I feel as if I've known you a very long time 😊

When are they planning to do your stent Hun?

Yours truly,

Pear

[dckimberly in reply to pear-shaped]

So good to see you too sweetest of girls!

I'm ok. Having it put in the 25th. I'm prespared for the worst, but hope for the best. After speaking to my drain specialist I understand what the likelihood of it working is..she said her last five patients had failures with the Tipps, and prior to that she said it's about 50/50. But, if it can cut down on the amount of drains I need, then that's really good! They say it still won't fix the underlying problem, and have given me up to two years with this liver, ballpark.

I feel like I've known you forever too! I think things like this bring people together, very fast. We. Are discussing such intimate things, and dealing with life and death.

How is your love doing?

And how are you? How is YOUR quality of life? Better I'm hoping. Less stress? Make sure you are taking time for you also!

Love and many hugs!

xxxx

Kimberly

[pear-shaped in reply to dckimberly]

Hello Kimberley,

Please do make sure you let us all know how you get on as we will all be watching this space.

I will post separately about how things are going with Mr Pear...

Lots of love

Pear

[tillycindy in reply to pear-shaped]

Hi pear, just a quick comment on your reply to our Kim! what would this site be without her humour, advice and thought for others even whilst enduring so much herself ? Like you, and many others I expect I also felt as though I had known her forever. I am thinking she is just one of those people, rare and to be treasured, a very old soul indeed! I haven't posted much lately as o ver half way through hep treatment and have the ribba rage badly! ( worry about saying something daffy or offending someone ) but follow the posts especially kims as it,s such an inspiration. Read one persons post yesterday who was basically saying not good things about the site and the folk using it. They can,t have been reading the things I have! I have found nothing but support, G.d great advice from you all. Here,s to Hep c chat! I hope things are well with you at the moment. My kindest regards, or at the risk of being accused of plagiarism, cheering you on! Yours anne sorry turned out tobe a not so quick comment!

[dckimberly in reply to tillycindy]

your a sweetie! well both of you are!

I'm so sorry, did not realize you were in the Hep C treatment (or forgot..I get muddled!) ..you doing ok? I hope so. I had them take me off the Riva or Riba..it made me feel yuck! I just did the Harvoni..it that what you meant? Either way..It will hopefully fly by! I'm sorry your having a tough time! Ill be thinking of you! Just remember..they are having such great results! I'm still free and clear and I was taking mine this time last year also!

And people who don't like the site usually are going through their own thing..I think sometimes they don't like it if we disagree with them..lol..or, if we say we had something different done. On this site a lot of the members are better informed than many GP's..at least I've found that. It's our specialists that really know and that makes sense.

Also, and to me, this is really sad..it's like some people actually WANT to be sick..you know? Those folks have other problems..the kind that cannot be helped here.They would do better somewhere that deals with mental and emotional issues. Shrugs..that's my 2 cents.

thanks for posting! hugs you, and yes,

Cheers you on!

(feel free to steal away!)

xooxoxox

feel better sweetie!

kimberly

[liveronmymind in reply to tillycindy]

Likewise, she's an angel not a human being: She's a very special person with a gift for reaching out to others with humour and strong compassion.

[dckimberly in reply to liveronmymind]

hugs you LOMM,

I think about you quite a bit lately..I know your doing better everyday..

small things, all lead to big changes..good ones.

We miss you on here..but we understand why and I wish I could share some of your grief so your load was lighter!

thinking of you, as ever!

xooxox

kimberly

ps. Ill try & write before my Tipps on the 24th. (I keep saying 25th but they told me today they mean the 24th as they only do them on Wednesdays..lol..I guess its because they have to put you to sleep!)

But if not, then after, to tell you all, and really catch up! hugs hugs hugs

and more hugs!! giggle!

xoox

[liveronmymind in reply to dckimberly]

I'm thinking a lot about you too and the dates 24th AND 25th are now already ringed round in my mind as a 'something important happening' on that date!

Hugs and hugs and hugs for you too Dearest Kimberley xxxxx

and to use your very own expression I am" Cheering you on" xxxx

Take Care, More Hugs (((( ))))

[liveronmymind in reply to pear-shaped]

I do too! same exact!

[annew272]

Thanks Kimberley, it was good to read your post, I too am a recovering alcoholic and a very grateful member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Funny how we can stop drinking and then be hit with the dreaded news, I was over 12 years sober when I was diagnosed, boy what a resentment. Currently working hard to change my lifestyle and trying to give my liver the best chance possible, current work is around food and activity - something else to put right one day at a time.

Keep smiling

Anne xx

[dckimberly in reply to annew272]

Wow!

Hi there Anne! 12 years? Gosh..talk about a blow. I cannot even imagine. What have they said?

Do you have support?t At home I mean?

And yes, that all important diet! It's so important! Fresh foods, low sodium..it's funny, I named my post,about pickles. I love them! But the and olives..too much sodium, or something. They were on my dietary restriction list when I was diagnosed. I still cheated, every once and a while!

So great to meet another friend of Bill and Dr. Bob.

I always tell everyone that my alcoholism gave me my entry fee into the coolest club in town!

Lolol

Cheering you on, a day at a time!

Kimberly

[Nhaamor51]

Hey Kimberly,

I have been reading your posts for the past six months and am amazed at how much compassion you show to everyone. No matter what the problem you are ready with an answer and if you don't know the answer you say that also. You support and encourage and ask for nothing in return. Your like our liver angel.

I do not give praise easily only when it is well deserved. I am not an alcoholic but have been married to one for 30 years and all you say is true. Fortunately many years ago he had one of those blackouts and got stopped for drunk driving. Long story short he was put in jail and when I found out the next morning I immediately called his job and told his boss. I know everyone is thinking that I went to far. His job sent him to a recovery program for 1 month and it saved his life and our marriage. He has been sober since and although our relationship has hit many rocky patches we are still together.

I am the one with liver disease. I do not think they have pinned down what I have yet. We thought it was caused by Sarcoidosis but now I think we are exploring other things. My liver biopsy initially pointed to Sarcoid but there is more than one liver disease that causes granulomas. We know it's not from alcohol or a fatty liver so we are having to redo all the blood work done three years ago.

Gotta go thanks for everything.

Wendy

[dckimberly in reply to Nhaamor51]

Hi there Wendy, and thank you so very much for your kindness! Truly, you made me blush a little. Lol.

I think it's great you helped your husband reach his bottom. Often tough love is what it takes. Did you go too far? Obviously not! Lol. It Worked! So YAY for that!

Sighs, but isn't it a fate twist that you should be the one with liver disease! I'm so sorry to hear that! I don't know anything about what you have? Can I ask what the basics are? And I do understand how it looks like one thing but is another! I've been going through that with the new liver.

My partner gets upset about it..but, I realize it's an organ, and there are so many things our bodies can individually go through. I think they hope they've got it right until something else tells them they don't! And I have a big group, so they tell us different things..that really upsets my partner! Lol. Bless him! I hope you are happy with your doctors.

So your going to get all new blood work done? And then hopefully they will get to the bottom of it? I sure hope so. There is nothing worse than not knowing at least something! Or feeling like no one is paying attention to what is happening. Then you just end up feeling scared and alone!

For me, being educated about my illness has been really important insomuch as it helps me deal with it better emotionally.

Let me know how you get on!

And again..thank you for your kind words.

I'm so grateful to be able to help anyone, even if it's just too encourage. Everyone has been so great to me!

Cheering you on!

Have a great week!

xxxxxx

Kimberly

[Nhaamor51]

It's a long and boring story of things pointing to Sarcoid causing the elevated liver enzymes and enlarged liver and spleen. We were all good with this diagnosis until I developed anemia and began having episodes of extreme ruq abd pain that caused my liver enzymes to go over 500 - 600. It stayed like that and then returned to my normal high counts. I was literally driving my poor rheumatologist into an early grave because one month he thought we were making headway and my labs would look encouraging then the next set would be elevated again. He had me on Imuran which I hated, it was an awful drug for me. He ended up raising up so high it dropped my white count to two. That was discontinued and we began Remicade. It was making me feel better. The body aches were better but the liver enzymes where hit or miss. My GP sent me back to the gastroenterologist to find a source for my deminished hgb and the recent episode of elevated enzymes.

He saw me and ordered an upper and lower colonoscopy.

MRI of liver

Fibroscan

Had all the testing done and things were going along until I went for the Fibroscan.

The nurse practitioner performed the test under 5 minutes and told me I had stage 4 cirrhosis of the liver and there was no medication to treat Sarcoid of the liver. There's always liver transplant.

I like how they throw that out there like that will cheer us up. I could not understand how it had gotten that bad so fast. Had a meeting with Gastroenterologist and he could not believe the results either. He called a surgeon while I was in his office and the decision was made to have a laporoscopy with biopsy in order for someone to actually look at my liver. The surgeon did the procedure and told my husband that there is inflammation but very little fat. She saw some fibrosis but no cirrhosis.

Apparently the Fibroscan flunked my test. My problem now is although the first biopsy I had 3 years ago it showed a granulomas that the pathologist stated was consistent with Sarcoid. So that what everyone even me thought needed to be treated. Now after researching there are other liver diseases that also cause granulomas. So he will have to start from the beginning and look at my lft's and then send me for more autoimmune blood work specific to my liver for like AIH, PBC, PSC etc. He also needs to check for Celic disease and Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction.

Crazy right,

Wendy

[dckimberly in reply to Nhaamor51]

Wow! So much Wendy! And scary! Thank you for explaining!

Let us know how you get on!

I'll be thinking of you!

xxxxxx

Kimberly

[Eirene49]

Hi Kimberly, fantastic post about alcoholism. Congratulations and well done on being 8 years sober. Although I wasn't an everyday drinker, I could easily drink 2 to 3 bottles over the weekend, one glass was never enough. Can relate to much of your post. Not sure I was an alcoholic, but I was definitely addicted to wine. Cut right down three years ago, drinking on special occasions, then decided not to drink full stop, now almost 18 months sober, best decision I ever made, feel so much better. Like yourself I see alcohol as a poison, it affects every part of your body. I've had about four LFTs over the last couple of years and they've always been normal, but do worry that maybe I could have still done long term damage, as it 's not unusual to have normal LFTs and still have a diseased liver. Did you have normal LFTS during the 3 and a half years prior to your diagnosis? This site has been an education for me, and has kept me sober. I've learnt so much about how important it is to look after our liver, and I'm still learning. The people are wonderful and always willing to help everyone, even though some are quite poorly, and have many health issues.

Love reading your posts, they're always encouraging, heartwarming and helpful to everyone. You've been through so much yet still remain optimistic and cheerful. Do hope the stent works for you, keeping my fingers crossed for you. The best to you Kimberly xxx

[dckimberly in reply to Eirene49]

Thanks so much! I enjoyed reading your reply and Yay for the 18 months! Just brilliant!

As far as I know, I did not have any bad blood work. I had leg swelling and some blood on a couple of occaisions, but I know 13 months before I got sick my blood tests were great. All normal. To be fair though, my blood tests where good right before I got my transplant. For some reason, those blood tests aren't very telling with me. For instance, right now the liver tests are good, but I have ascites. My kidneys have bad creatin results. But this is a new liver.

I hope that stent goes well too. Either way, I'll deal with it when it comes. I think I'm not getting my hopes up too much, then I can't be let down..you know? Lol.

Again,I really enjoyed your post.

I do know they say there's three types of drinkers or four really ..but no drink, social drinkers, hard drinkers and alcoholics. You MaY fall into that hard drinker category. Those folks can drink hard for some time, but then they will have some type of consequence, something bad happen, and they quit, full stop. They never have a problem again and never drink again.

It's the brain and body of the alcoholic that separated them. They can't stop, literally. Things get worse and worse and they just keep drinking, until they hit rock bottom. Usually some type of intervention is involved..such as waking up in a hospital or mental institution, or getting arrested, again..things like that.

That's why the big book of AA describes anyway. Seems to be pretty good, though. Seems to be spot on from what I've seen.

I hope your doing ok. And I know it's hard not to worry..but try not too. You don't want to worry and take anything away from your life. Let's hope those blood tests keep coming back good.

Thinking a good thought and cheering you on!

xxxxxxxx

[Eirene49 in reply to dckimberly]

Hi Kimberly, only just seen your post, not getting any notifications!! Thank you so much for your helpful reply. I guess I'll have to hope that all is well and stay as healthy as I can, and hope for the best. So many times I read that people have normal LFTs and they can still have a damaged liver. I think AA is brilliant and I've listened to many of their powerful speakers on utube. I'll be looking out for your future post about your stent. Keeping you in my prayers Kimberly, you deserve some good look, you have been through so much and always helpful to others. Best to you lovely ladyxxx

[dckimberly in reply to Eirene49]

Thank you so much for your response! AND for mentioning the speakers on YouTube! I had not thought to mention that! But what a brilliant idea for those of us too sick to get out! I know AA also offers online meetings too! I have been to many of those! Thank you so very much for your kind thoughts! And prayers!

Cheering you on!

xxxxxxx

[broomhall79]

Hi Kimberly I had all the symptoms you described.I started drinking when I was 14years old I was brought up with a father who was an alcoholic but never admitted it.he died age61 trough drink which caused a sroke.I was so close to him as he was such a lovely man.it was then I started drinking heavily I was constantly in and out of hospital.and age 27 I had liver and kidney failure and was given only twelve hours to live.but I pulled trough and I went straight back to the only thing I knew the evil drink.I had 35 detoxing programs atleast .then just over two years ago I gave up but it was to late I was diagnosed with cirrhosis I've been sober ever since but it was the hardest thing I ever had to go through.I have a lovely wife who stuck with me why I didn't know because she never drank .but yet she knew I was this loving person who had been took over by the evil drink and knew I was in their somewhere.so I just want to say anybody who is a alcoholic don't give up because you can be saved.and the real you is still inside plz take note of the post Kimberly has wrote remember it's a disease xxx ps Kimberly I love your post they give people hope and the courage to fight this disease

[dckimberly in reply to broomhall79]

Oh thank you so much for sharing your story! It means so much that you did! You and I have similar pasts! I started very young too! And I also did not stop in time! I like to say I did not stop by my sell by date. Lol.

And your right! You should never give up. And if you relapse, just keep trying. I've known people who relapsed over and over..then finally got it. And that's what counts.

The real you IS inside, your right! And that real you can be pretty great!

Cheering you on!

XXXX

Kimberly

[broomhall79 in reply to dckimberly]

Thank you Kimberly for your reply.you are a inspiration to me and so many people who are in this group.even though your going through so much yourself .you still take time out for others so I'll say it again thank you.ps just keep plodding on and keep doing the good things you do xxx

[Soonie1522]

Thanks for the information you shared. My son would answer yes to 9 of the questions you asked. Sadly he felt that because he only drank beer at the time he didn`t have a problem. He then switched to what ever was available or cheap. He was diagnosed 3 years ago with stage 4 cirrhosis. He has been hospitalized several times once in critical care. He says he doesn`t drink anymore but I know different he disappears for several days and comes home and sleeps and is so very nasty verbally. I am glad that you have expressed that it is a disease like any addiction is. It is nothing to be ashamed of, I know my son feels terrible at times but only he can stop what he is doing. The choice is his to make I only hope he makes the right choice before it is too late. Thank you again for your powerful insight to how you managed to do what was right for you and congratulations. I hope others with get some hope and strength from what you shared.

Hugs Susan

[dckimberly in reply to Soonie1522]

Susan

hullo there! first, thank you for sharing your story with all of us. Sadly, no, tragically, our loved ones suffer so terribly from our disease. Especially parents..Watching your children hurt themselves and others..watching them get into serious trouble, and then watching as they get sick from this is really heartbreaking. I hate to admit this, but, I only saw my father cry once, and it was over me. He died before he could see me sober. It's a terrible guilt I carry with me. But I have to believe he watches over me and sees me now.. I dream about him a lot now..since I've been sick..I think it's him caring for me, from wherever he might be.

Shame and guilt are two of the things that keep us drinking. You'd think they would stop us, but no, we drink even more. It's the only thing that seems to banish those feelings..being lost in a haze of alcohol.

There is a wonderful program for dealing with loved ones who have the disease. It's called Al-anon. I'm not sure if you have heard of it. Now, it wont make him better..BUT it can help you. People don't realize, the family often becomes 'sick' right along with the alcoholic. You change things in your life, in your self, in order to function. you also can become a different person. And it definitely can stop YOU from living YOUR life..if your always worried about him. Al-anon can teach family to free themselves..to be able to love but to let go. If you call any toll free AA number, or even google it, you can find Al-anon. AA will know where meetings are also.

Now, you may need none of that..but please make sure you are caring for you also. Don't let his drinking ruin your life. Often tough love is the best thing, as it forces us to hit our bottoms. But, if he is ill already..I'm guessing there is no chance for a transplant? Because he is drinking?

I want you to also know..we can and do get better. Sometimes it takes getting really sick, or something else really bad happening to make us stop..Actually, lol..it almost always happens that way.

Again, thank you!

and bless you on this journey with your son. I don't know what personal feelings you might have about his drinking..but I hope you know..this is not your fault. You weren't a bad mom. Even if you had been, that does not make an alcoholic. Even if it runs in your family and you passed the gene down to him..it's still not your fault. And you could not have changed it. We make our own choices..and early on, we know we are getting in trouble. But we keep choosing to drink. we do that until there is no choice.

Be well! Ill be thinking of you!

oxoxox

kimberly

[GrannyDoll61 in reply to Soonie1522]

My husband loved his red wine but was not an alcoholic. He now has liver cancer. He has had 3 t.a.c.e. treatments and has not had a drink since March. He is losing weight rapidly and waiting for a cat scan and an mri. His next meeting with the transplant team is on 5 December and I am praying he is fit enough to be added to the transplant list. We are both finding the wait very difficult

[dckimberly in reply to GrannyDoll61]

I understand. I am waiting for my second liver and a kidney.

I have Hepatic Encephalopathy, which causes me to ask like I have dementia..losing time.

I have a poor quality of life and waiting is very tough.

I am grateful for the support network at AA, my sponsor, family and partner.

thinking of you!

kimberly

[LAJ123]

An odd thing happened to me. I attended a " reflection " group for people with substance problems, mostly like me with alcohol over reliance. I was hoping that the drinkers in the group would see what I went through ( HE and all the usual stuff followed by a successful transplant) learn from my hard lesson and seriously address their drinking. However it backfired. One of the most problematic drinkers took it as a signal/ encouragement to continue drinking as " it's great news I can drink as much as I like because I'll just have a transplant like Jim " That's what he told the group leader after the meeting!

[dckimberly in reply to LAJ123]

oh wow..well, he's just looking for any excuse to drink..alcoholism at it's finest! And the group leader should be able to see that.

A problem drinker is defined by someone who drinks and gets into trouble. The trouble causes him to stop. An alcoholic is someone who gets into trouble and KEEPS drinking..like the guy at this group.

That's what the Big Book of Alcoholics says and I trust them.

Cheering you on!

kimberly

[liveronmymind]

Thinking of you Kimberley yesterday and today especially and sending love and hope that this will put things to rights for you, lovely lady xxx