Vibration therapy for improving bone health- does it work?

[Eton]

Hi

Has anyone successfully improved their bone density by using a low intensity vibration device? The devices are very expensive so I need to be convinced before I make any major investments.

Many thanks

[StPetes]

Hi Eton. I haven't any experience of that approach to bone health though I can see how stimulating circulation should help. Was it recommended by a bone health specialist?

[Eton in reply to StPetes]

Hi StPetes, no it wasn’t recommended by a specialist. I saw it mentioned in something I read on line. I am sceptical however. Surely if these were really effective at helping to build bone there would be much more awareness of them?

[StPetes in reply to Eton]

Yes, I agree and there's nothing worse than 'investing' in something only to find it a wasted hope. But I bought an infra red lamp (Mito brand) to address swelling and pain on my ankle and I found it helpful. I'd developed pain and difficulty weight bearing over a few weeks and an MRI showed severe midfoot osteoarthritis.

To be completely honest I don't know how much it helped given that I had rested it a bit and had two physio sessions around the same time but there is some medical evidence to support it.

I'll continue to use it and hope it works some magic while I wait to see an orthopedic surgeon in February. I'll mention the vibration therapy to him too and I'll let you know his opinion 😃

[Eton in reply to StPetes]

Thank you StPetes, that would be very helpful. I hope your ankle pain resolves.

[JGBH in reply to Eton]

Hello Eton. Apologies for jumping the queue… are you referring to the Orbitrex eliptical machine as advertised on FB? It would be interesting to know as I have seen a few advertisements for such things, at different price range but the one named above is the most expensive. TIA.

[Eton in reply to JGBH]

Hi JGBH I think the eliptical machine you refer to is entirely different from a vibration plate.

[JGBH in reply to Eton]

Hi Eton. I did wonder it that might be the case… thank you for replying. Are you likely to buy such a vibration plate once you get more information ?

[Eton in reply to JGBH]

I am really undecided about the vibration plate as it is so expensive and the research is far from conclusive as far as I can see.

[JGBH in reply to Eton]

Yes, there are so many con merchants about…

[JGBH in reply to Eton]

I wonder if it could be helpful when one can’t move much anymore, the fact it’s ecliptical might be quite helpful… not sure where I can get any decent information from…

[JGBH in reply to StPetes]

Apologies to Eton for using his enquiry re: vibration plate benefit for bone strengthening… and may I ask you to kindly let me know too what your orthopaedic surgeon thinks of this idea. Hope you don’t mind … thank you. Infra red light sounds interesting and I might buy one for a swollen and painful left ankle. So thanks again.

[StPetes in reply to JGBH]

Hi JGBH. Yes I'll certainly make a post about it. It's odd that the damage is midfoot but the pain and swelling is at my ankle. I'm guessing that it's as a result of the joint articulation and compensation.I was too slow to rest, ice and elevate it when it started and I needed crutches pretty quickly. It helped too to take anti inflammatory meds regularly but again I was a bit lax about following the prescription initially. Now I just rest and elevate it regularly but my walking distance capability is much reduced.

I did a lot of research on IR lamp brands and I'm very happy with the Mito.

[JGBH in reply to StPetes]

Thank you StPetes for responding so quickly. Am sorry to hear about your problems. Losing one’s mobility is hard. I can barely walk because I have had rheumatoid arthritis for nearly 40 years and am not responding to treatment well now. Yet I used to be active, walking, gardening, tai chi but this isn’t possible now. So I thought one of these vibration plates might help my dormant circulation and perhaps help with cardiovascular exercises. I saw an advert for an Orbitrex eliptical machine…

I will look up this infra red light and buy it. Thank you again and good luck at your orthopaedic appointment.

[StPetes in reply to JGBH]

Sorry to hear that JGBH, mobility is so precious. I took it for granted but I'm going to get back to swimming next week to help with flexibility and to make up for the loss of exercise opportunities as I'm not a fan of the gym. Do you take turmeric with black pepper against inflammation?

[JGBH in reply to StPetes]

Hi StPetes, No I do not take turmeric with black pepper. Do you and how do you take it? However, I use a lot of black pepper in my cooking. Not sure whether turmeric would interfere with my statin and biologic injection for RA (Tocilizumab).

Good luck with the swimming. I used to do that but am not able to drive myself to the pool and would now need someone to help me getting ready and so on. I do miss my mobility and independence. Hope you make good progress.

[StPetes in reply to JGBH]

Thank you JGBH.

I don't love the taste of turmeric when I use it in my cooking but it's a very common ingredient in Indian dishes, it gives a bright orange colour to curries, etc. I take it in capsule form when I haven't had Indian food in a while. Black pepper potentiates its effect. It may reduce blood sugar levels and may also impact blood thinners but I'm not sure about interactions with RA meds, so you might mention it to your Rheumatologist.

This is a link to the Mount Sinai page about it mountsinai.org/health-libra...

[JGBH in reply to StPetes]

Thank you so much for the link, will read it tomorrow and make notes, Thoughtful of you,

I do have turmeric powder I used when making curries…

[WFBPSOS]

hi Eton - I've been looking at Vibration technology also as I have osteoporosis. Have you heard Dr. Rubin speak? He's the Dr. that invented the Marodyne LIV machines. There's another company juvent.com that sells a low vibration plate but it's even more expensive than Marodyne. So many people buy the LifePro brand but I think it's high speed vibration so I wouldn't want to use that. Good luck on your search!

[Eton in reply to WFBPSOS]

Many thanks. I think the evidence on improving bones needs to be better articulated before I invest in one of these.

[t1gernidster]

My osteopath recommends vibration therapy but says there is no need for the expensive machines. Just using normal plates is helpful.

[Eton in reply to t1gernidster]

Many thanks.

[Eton in reply to t1gernidster]

Thank you . I will try and find some less expensive machines I think.

[Met00 in reply to Eton]

There are risks with the cheaper machines, which can cause fractures if bones are weak and also retina detachment! There seems to be evidence that the Marodyne does build bone, but I haven't yet come across anyone who has been using one long enough to be able to demonstrate this. Also, it's complicated to assess, because you'd need to use the Marodyne without changing anything else (eg upping exercise, improving diet) to be certain that the Marodyne itself was responsible for any improvement.

[Siamang]

have heart jumping on a trampoline is good too!

[JGBH in reply to Siamang]

That’s good IF one is able to jump…. Useless for those of us who have rheumatoid arthritis and losing our mobility.

[Siamang]

have heard jumping on a trampoline is good too.

[Eton in reply to Siamang]

Thank you Siamang

[Annie99]

Hi Eton. I purchased a Marodyne LIV about a year ago and my bone density increased overall by 9%. However, I also joined a gym and walked 3.5 miles 3 or 4 times a week, and did a lot of weight strength exercises.

[Arie4 in reply to Annie99]

All told, you’re to be commended on all your efforts & 9% is an excellent gain! WTG!

[Annie99 in reply to Arie4]

Thank you. I cried when I saw the results. I have not taken meds and I also changed my diet. I gained nearly 20 lbs which I hate, but it’s worth it if it helps. I hope I can keep increasing.

[Arie4 in reply to Annie99]

Bless you! That’s really so wonderful: no drugs! I understand your happy tears Those pounds will settle down, & could it be from that great muscle you’re building since it weighs more than fat??

I stupidly listened to my primary doctor 🙄 and thou I researched PROLIA, it was not enough. More kudos to you that you took control of your own health!! Keep up the great work!

[wellness1 in reply to Annie99]

That's wonderful. May I ask how you changed your diet?

[Annie99 in reply to wellness1]

Well, I was on a very low carb diet for many years. That meant no milk, kefir, not even fresh fruits for a very long time. I was never a good eater. The keto diet always kept me thin, but I was not getting all the nutrients I needed. I changed all that and started eating right. It wasn’t easy for me. I gained a lot of weight.

[Eton in reply to Annie99]

Thank you Annie99. I understand what you mean. When you have been thin all your life it takes some adjustment to get used to a new shape, but it has clearly been very worth while given your amazing improvements.

[Annie99 in reply to Eton]

Yes, I hope to keep it up. Good luck to you. I wish you the best.

[Eton in reply to Annie99]

Thank you Annie

[88km in reply to Annie99]

Hello Annie , this is amazing to hear . Can I please ask what your Dexa scores were before you started using the plates & changed your diet .I am just about to finish Teriparatide which has increased my BD by 10 percent but am now reluctant to start on A acid . I have been seriously thinking about a Marodyne LIV .

[Annie99 in reply to 88km]

Sure. Total: In 2022, Left -2.7, Right -3.0, Mean -2.8. In 2023, Left -2.1, Right -2.6, Mean -2.3. Spine: 2022, L1 -1.8, L2 -2.7, L3-2.8, L4 -2.7 L1-L4 -2.5, L2-L4 -2.7. 2023, L1 -2.1, L2 -2.3, L3 -2.4, L4 -2.3, L1-L4 -2.3, L2-L4 -2.4. Looks like L1 is the only one that got worse. I’m not comfortable posting this online, so if you have more questions please ask them in a more private manner.

[Eton in reply to Annie99]

Hi Annie that is very encouraging. Were you taking any medication or HRT? Thank you

[Annie99 in reply to Eton]

No. But I did work hard and gained a lot of weight because I changed my diet.

[Eton in reply to Annie99]

The weight gain has probably been instrumental in helping your bone density. I am slightly built and would probably benefit from some extra weight. I have gastritis which makes this difficult. Did you find it difficult to gain weight?

[Annie99 in reply to Eton]

No. Working out at the gym increased my appetite. My digestive system certainly has problems and yes I have many problems with that. I have to take digestive aids.

[Eton in reply to Annie99]

Annie do you mean that you take digestive enzymes?

I have to eat a bland diet- lots of potatoes, porridge, plain chicken etc. Cannot eat anything acid including yoghurt (which I used to eat lots of).

[Annie99 in reply to Eton]

I don’t know what digestive enzymes are. I take ibs over the counter medicine. It doesn’t always work.

[HealthELiving]

I'm curious as well since the only report is from Dr. Rubin it hasn't been reported or studied to either confirm or contradict. There are many 'me too' brands jumping into a market without any proof and to my cynical mind, appealing to fear and hope. I'd love to see more independent research .

[Hidden]

Hi Eton, you may find our fact sheet on vibration therapy helpful. strwebprdmedia.blob.core.wi...

[Eton in reply to Hidden]

Many thanks. Very informative.

[Canuck321]

Does anyone know if it is safe to use a device like the Marodyne LiV if you have multiple compression fractures? They are not new fractures. I'm worried that the device may cause more degradation/fracturing vs. improving bone density.

[montluna]

I've used the Marodyne Liv since 2021 and saw over 20% gain in hips and 15% in lower spine, verified on two different DEXA machines in 2022. The doctor said it was almost a miracle. However, I did also radically improve my diet, start very low dose HRT, weight bearing excercise and get my hyperthyroidism under control.

The doctor wasn't interested in the reasons why, she just said carry on doing what you're doing. I have. The bone density improvement has stayed the same. I feel like the vibration had something to do with it, given it's very difficult to improve bone density much through exercise or diet alone.

You need to make sure you use one with low intensity vibration, the high intensity ones are very dangerous for your eyes and fragile bones.

Margaret Martin's site, the melioguide.com, has some useful info about it.

[Eton in reply to montluna]

Thats great Montluna. What dietary changes did you make?

[nynyny in reply to montluna]

Although not a spokesperson, Margaret gets compensated by the Marodyne company.

[Nat107]

hi is this like the vibropwer excercise plate where you stand on it and excercise with the vibration so you don’t need to excercise as long

[Tlflom]

Yes I use one. You do not need the extremely expensive one. Mime is a mid-range. Used is just as good. I also take algecal suppliment, K2 is important. It prevents calcium buildup in vessels and organs but sends minerals to the bones.

[Eton in reply to Tlflom]

Thank you Tlflom. Can I ask how long you have been using the device and whether it has helped your bone density?

[Tlflom in reply to Eton]

I bought it a couple of years ago. I changed suppliments and yes my density is now at the low range of normal. I was osteopenia in several places. I do consider it an amazing turn around. It would be recommended that if anyone had balance issues to get one with bars to hold onto.

[Eton in reply to Tlflom]

Hi Tiflom thanks for your message. Can I ask what supplements you take and what is the brand of your vibration plate please. Thank you for taking time to reply

[FearFracture]

There are two devices that sound very promising. The 1st is the Marodyne LiV (low intensity vibration) platform. mybones.health/professor-cl... I first discovered the Marodyne LiV when I was researching the possibility of using a trampoline to improve bones. As often happens on the internet, one thing led to another and before long I had stumbled onto info about the Marodyne LiV. I have not used it but I am seriously considering purchasing one. NASA funded the research behind the Marodyne LiV and Dr. Rubin sounds like he knows what he is talking about.

Unfortunately, the 2nd device hasn't made it to market yet. When I called my congressperson 2 years ago to ask what could be done to get FDA approval for the Marodyne LiV (without FDA approval insurance companies won't cover it and it costs over $3000) the person I spoke to told me about the OsteoBoost Belt. I checked out the company's website bonehealthtech.com/ and at that time they were projecting they'd have the device to market by mid-2022. Unfortunately, that date as come and gone and I'm still waiting.

Here's the thing, the company won some kind of FDA fast track award, so when it is finally ready, it will have FDA approval, which pretty much means the results are real but it doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

One thing to note is the reason that the Marodyne LiV doesn't have FDA approval is because of what is required to get FDA approval. It's my understanding that the FDA approves osteo-meds based on whether or not they prevent fractures not because they increase bone mineral density, so a company has to be able to prove that a device or drug reduces fractures, which takes a long time and costs a lot of money. I'm guessing the fast-tracking of the OsteoBoost belt is allowing Bone Health Technologies to get around that obstacle. It's easy to prove if a device improves BMD--get a group of people with low BMD, give them DEXAs, have them where devices for 30 minutes a day for 12 months, do follow-up DEXAs, compare the results of both DEXAs.

I emailed the company about a week or two ago to see when they might finally get the OsteoBoost to market and the reply I received said, "The product continues to go through the FDA approval process and we are hoping to have resolution soon with a potential launch middle of this year." If you go to the company website, you can sign up to be notified when it is available.

[Eton in reply to FearFracture]

Thank you Fear fracture. I will certainly check this out and sign up for alerts.