Bullied into leaving my job because of COPD

I worked in the royal college of physicians and surgeos in glasgow and i took unwell in a meeting with my ceo.he said to go home and i ended in hospital and diagnosed with copd.was never off work and sometimes worked 15 hrs a day when it was busy but ended up being admitted for a week in hosp.i was in charge of a team who kept the college running (setting up exams and big dinners and admission ceremonies when it was exam time).i was off for 3 weeks.when i went back my manager was treated me really badly (obv because he knew i wouldnt be able to do what i did before) and the stress made my condition worse.i had to go on sick with stress caused by my manager and i had 2meetings with my ceo in coffee shops about my treatment by this manager.to cut a long story short the ceo left in the january and so did my head of dept but i was not informed till i got a new head of dept who asked me to come in for a meeting with her.i told her what happened and i said to her that this manager didnt want me back in work and she said YOUR RIGHT but then later denied she told me this.she sent me to an occ health meetings hoping they would say i couldnt return to work but i said i wanted to return to work so they sent me to a diff occ health doc and i told him whats been going on and he wrote a report to the college.after loads of meetings,emails back and fotward it was almost a year i was off and the lies that this head of unit (who had never met me) told about me was shocking.first time i had a meeting with me she got my file and opened it up to discover not a single sheet of paper in it.OH she said,theres nothing in my file,not even a contract and i had been there 4years.i was emailing her back and forward and she denied she told me the manager didnt want me back along with other lies.she called me in for my last meeting and here was my file lying on her desk wide open and this time it was full of paperwork so i asked where that had come from and she refused to answer so after almost a year on the sick i had had enough and sent her an email saying i was disgusted with the way i was being treated by my manager and now my head of dept and they could do what they wanted with me as i wouldnt be back.i recieved a reply which read thank you for your email terminating your contract with the college,we will contact you by letter stating what you are due and will also forward ur P45.what a way for a medical establishment to treat a worker with a disability

28 Replies

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  • P.S theres loads more happened but i would need to write a book lol

  • Surely you can do something about this ! Constructive dismissal ? Val

  • Hi stitch.my job was security of the building,settig up exams for doctors and surgeons and people used to book rooms for meetings and we had dinners in the college every night.i absolutley loved my job and this manager was a very good friend before i took unwell,i even took a weeks holiday and painted his house outside and cleaned all his roof and he gave me 3x £60.00 totalling £180.00 for 7 days work 12 hours a day.i had the best attendance in the whole college but somehow a sheet of paper turned up saying my time on sick wasnt very good but when i told her i had every pay slip from the last 3 years she didnt know what to say.i did keep asking for a contract and was always fobbed off.my time has lapsed for a tribunal and i loved everyone else in the college.all the other managers in the college used to say i should have a bed in the college because when they come in at 7.00 am im there and if they are back at night for a dinner i was still there.i had loads of emails frommy ceo,the president of the college and docs and surgeons who i had helped set up their exams but this new head of units said they dont meana thing. Just wanted to let people know that it happens in all sort of businesses inc medical organisations about people being victimised because of copd,not a nice feeling as i went into a severe depression for a long time because of this,thanks

  • Thanks stitch for that.i will always be proud of my 4years there but as my condition is worse now i fear i wont get another job as my condition has got worse over time.my last lung functon test was 42% so not very good.glad i joined this site as there are lots of very interesting blogs and comments,thanks again stitch

  • Word of warning employment tribunals are very stressful so not everyone's idea of sorting things and you have to do it within a certain period of leaving your job. But I would say you have excellent grounds to pursue a case for constructive dismissal. Different reasons but when my husband found himself without a job we took this road and it was interesting what the judge had to say about all this paperwork we had never seen before!

  • last thing you want is lots of stress, best to let somebody else sort it out

    pussy

    x

  • Stitch i called an employment lawyer who spoke to me for 30 mins and told me i had a stonewall case to take my employers to court,then came the bolt out of the blue,he said i had to pay him £150 per hour and i couldnt afford it thats why i had to leave it and just move on. Why have an employment tribunal if people cant afford to pay a lawyer and i think my work knew that

  • Hello Stuwer,

    I can't seem to find in your writing anything about them saying to you, that their problem with you was, that you had become unable to carry out your job properly.

    Did they say this to you?

    If they did, were they correct?Or were you able to carry out your duties perfectly well and so support the wok place properly?

    If you were not able to fulfill your working duties then I can understand employers having hard times too if the wok does not get done, when it really does need to get done.

    So my view on this is,

    1/ if you were fully able to carry out your work then it seems you have been treated unfairly.

    2/ If you were no longer able to perform properly and it affected the workplace, then I can understand them needing to give you notice of dismissal.

    I cannot imagine that an institution such as that, or actually, imagine that THIS institution treated you in such an unprofessional manner.

    a) Did they lay out their motivation in a reasonable way

    b) Were there terms and conditions of employment attached to your employment (there must be, because it is law, relating to health and safety)?

    c) Terms include such things as the employer under obligation to give you at least one month's notice.

    Giving you notice means to say, did they inform you on time and provide you with notification of their plans to dismiss you. On time in these matters means within a reasonable period of time, time enough for you to consider it and take steps to protest. This is why there are rules related to health and safety in the terms of employment that are in place and obligatory under the European Acts. Each country in the European Community has to abide by these rules. No member State can be part of the European Community and then just behave like we are all living in the year 1703 and workers then be treated like they are all in an Oliver Twist movie, with no rights.

    You do have rights, even if institutions do not understand them, and do not operate according to proper agreed upon standards.

    d) or, were there clauses in the terms that said, in certain cases you could be dismissed at short notice?

    It's the terms of employment that you need to look into. If those were broken by your employers and you can prove it, then there are ways to make them put things right. The persons you would need to get in touch with would be those in the Works Council, employers have to listen to them.

    For instance if it is a fact that you were not given enough time to let things sink in and then act accordingly, like, do something for yourself, then they remain in the wrong and you can get it put right, there cannot be a time limit on that, as the basis of them firing you would then be nullified or baseless.

    I do know what I'm talking about with this stuff as I have translated lots of stuff like it and still do on a regular basis.

    Companies and institutions cannot even implement their plans if they do not first submit the proposals to the Works Council attached to the firm or institute. The Works Councils are there to protect people in employment and they issue recommendations after requests for advice.

    The Works Councils operate according to the law and hold members of company boards to the matters agreed upon at board and Works Council meetings.

    Works Councils mediate between employer and employee.

    Employers can ignore some issues and go steam ahead with their own ideas, but some of the issues are ones handed down by law, some of the laws are them according to European Union standards.

    e) Even if you had no employment contract (like because they refused to draw one up for you/with you) they are still bound by certain rules. Mostly tho ugh, if employers refuse to give an individual a contract this will be because they do not want to be answerable and do not want to be tied up with people: no contract does mean the employee has less rights and is easier to get rid of as well as not building up rights to decent pensions and such things.

  • Sorry t john i meant to say that the only thing i ever got was a job description,no terms and conditions and as far as i was aware an employer MUST give you a written contract after 3 months but every time i asked i was told that i am accepting my salary so that is good enough,could you clarify if this is correct as everywhere i looked on the net says that you MUST be given a written contract by law after 3 months. Thanks stuart

  • Typo corrections*

    Employers can ignore some issues and go full steam ahead with their own ideas, however, certain issues cannot be ignored because they have been handed down by law.

    Some of those current laws are valid and in force in accordance with European Union standards.

  • Hi t john,

    First of all let me tell you that there was not 1 word said to me about my condition.This problem was with my imediate line manager whos title was building services manager which means any work needed done in the building from ordering light bulbs to major work being done in the building (he would organise contractors) which alot of the time i dealt with a few as my job was Head College Officer.I worked there for 4 years and had no contract never mind terms and conditions.I got on with this manager superbly till the day i returned to work and then he started picking on me for no reason.My coe was in malawi (i think it was) when i returned to work and i went to his secretary after a month of this and explained that i couldnt take this treatment ant more and she told me that he had been into her office shouting at her the week before about another matter (nothing to do with me) and she advised me to go to a doctor as he cant get away with this and she would email the ceo about it.I had been emailing the ceo for about 2months regarding this and he asked me if i would like to meet him for a coffee and discuss whats been goibg on,which i did and he said he would get back to me when he had spoken to my manager.i waited another 2 months for an email from him (just before xmas) saying i was to enjoy xmas and new year and he would contact me shortly after new year. I didnt hear anything from Mr Miller by the middle of january so i emailed him every week and heard nothing. I got a call on 16th April from a woman called Michelle Wylie who advised me that she was the new head of finance and building services (the dept i was in) and said the CEO and previous head of finance had left in January and she would like me to come in for a chat to get to know me as she had never met me before. We went to her office and spoke for a while and thats when i said to her that my manager didnt want me back and her exact words were ( im not going to lie to you,your right). Then she said wait till i go next door and get your file,she came back and opened my file and said "oh theres nothing in it".she said would i be willing to go to Occupational Health and i said yes.i went to a hospital in glasgow and was examined by a dr and she wrote a report saying i was happy to return to work but the bullying had to stop so a month later i got a letter from Michelle asking me to go and see another Occ Health (this time a private one) in a diff hospital and she asked me in for another meeting in June,where she denied half of the things she said at the last meeting.Eventually after numerous emails back and forward i had had enough and emailed her back to say the college could do what they want with me as i fealt i could not come back after the way i had been treated and she replied "thank you for your email and the college accepts my resignation".

    I have never heard of a works council before and just to make you aware i got on brilliantly with everyone in my work from the cleaners to tge president and no one said a bad word about me,my workmates were all asking me to come back and to ignore him as he was a cheeky pig who thought he owned the company but i fealt the college needed hom more than me and i would NEVER be welcomed back by him.in my 4years at the college there has been 5 workers who have left in similar circumstances to mine with different managers from different department managers so to say you cant imagine working unprofessionally is an understatement if you think that is reasonable conduct for any company to behave.our HR woman left after 2months because the way the college was run so i had no one to go to so i thought going to the top would get things done but i was wrong. Sorry to rant on but it still makes me angry even now as i loved my job so much that i had 1 days sick in 4years (but in my file that appeared from nowhere said i was sick often but i had every wage slip from the day i started to prove she was lieing) as every wage slip showed my normal working hours plus between 50-70 hours overtime every month

  • Hi,

    I'm not sure if this would help but check this out...

    nidirect.gov.uk/contracts-o...

    I have recently been made redundant based on a "selection criteria" between one other person whom I trained to do her job. This in itself is considered Unfair selection so I have decided to persue a claim.

    It sounds to me that you have a good case so I would look at other means/methods to persue a claim such as;

    claims4free.co.uk/claim/unf...

    You should persue this even if at the end you get nothing from it but that you have demonstrated that it is NOT Acceptable to treat employees in this way.

    Regards

    David

  • Hi david,thank you for the link you sent it was very interesting reading stuart

  • Hello Stuwer,

    I am not sure right now that an employer in Britain is under any obligation to give you a contract after 3 months.

    a) When I say I cannot imagine such an institution acting in such an unprofessional manner - if what you say is accurately described - I mean to say that this particular institute/body, is not just any old firm, it is after all THE Royal College of Physicians & Surgeons in Glasgow, Scotland, according to what you wrote here above, therefore in relation to this specific case, I cannot imagine they arrange matters so informally and unprofessionally.

    In this respect, unprofessionally means to say if they indeed do fail to inform employees, at all, of their rights, and knowingly allow people(managers) to run around dictating and treating employees poorly.

    I cannot imagine that if those in charge (the manager's higher ups) knew of such matters that they simply allowed him to carry on in the way you described.

    I'm not saying I do not believe you, but if what you are saying is correct, then it is a very serious matter. It is then a very serious matter for several different reasons.

    You may not have been aware, or have not been MADE aware of your rights as an employee, but even if you work 1 day anywhere, you do have rights.

    You do have rights in Britain even if those employing you either do not know these rules/rights and/or simply try to ignore both rules & rights.

    An individual in employment with a position of authority has responsibilities towards the people working below him/her and to the people working over him/her.

    He/she has a position and cannot do whatever he she likes according to whim and fancy, there are limits, if there were not, it would mean anyone could do whatever they liked, just like things were in the old days when rights were only for those with money/wealth.

    This is not the situation today.

    As I pointed out to make things clear, we are not living in 1703 and in times when kids were made to climb up chimneys, rules have been put into place after much struggle to do so, in order to protect people.

    A person with a job, one giving him/her authority over other employees, is him.herself still an employee, just like you are.

    If an individual with a position of authority does not direct you properly, within and according to the bounds of reasonable behaviour and treatment (meaning coming from or being dished out by that person when managing individuals or groups) then that is classed as misuse of power, this means to say that nobody is allowed to treat anyone in a discriminatory way, such as speaking in derogatory ways, using harassment as a tool of bullying or intimidation in any place of company business or employment.

    All of these matters or factors fall under the officially defined terms of health and safety controlled first of all by national laws & acts and enforced by government and then laws & acts agreed upon by all Member States under the umbrella of the European Community or Union. Good health does not only mean physical health but mental health too; if people are made to work in terribly disturbing psychological conditions then that can never be okay for their minds and thus health.

    The European Union sets out (intends) to get all Member Nations/States on one line as regards rights that employees have.

    Getting Member Nations on one line is a policy that applies to many other matters, for instance, regarding standards and norms that have nothing to do with work and jobs, such as, for instance, civil rights, human rights, rights to privacy, protection from harm, in every way.

    Considering the fact that the Royal College of Physicians & Surgeons is a body of high standing, it is therefore hard to imagine that they would be so arrogant, careless and unprofessional, as they would be well-aware of the rules, the rights and their own obligations.

    It sounds as though the one individual was making your life hell, or he wanted you out but went about it in the wrong way (unacceptable way), others then wanted to assist you but may have been under pressure too, to an extent, and additionally some may have been afraid of endangering their own jobs/positions. This too is an incorrect way to carry on, but it happens a lot.

    It stands to reason; if you have to work with or under someone and you criticise them, even though you are supposed to have the right to do so, they may at a later date work against you, which is then highly unprofessional and even childish/mean.

    Here above you wrote the following.

    Quote

    i was off for 3 weeks.when i went back my manager was treated me really badly (obv because he knew i wouldn't be able to do what i did before)

    Unquote

    And you wrote

    Quote

    she sent me to an occ health meetings hoping they would say i couldnt return to work but i said i wanted to return to work

    Unquote

    What I'm getting is that you became ill while attending a meeting with your CEO, ended up in hospital, was off work for 3 weeks, returned to your place of employment but your manager started to behave in a difficult manner towards you.

    However, you say here above that he obviously knew that you would NOT be able to do what you did before.

    You go on to explain that you was sent by the ''new'' Head of Department to the Occupational Health department, and the Head of Department actually just wanted the Occupational Health Department to tell you that you would not be able to return to your job.

    With this, you made it known that you did wish to return to your job.

    It's here I'm seeing a conflict and a potential cause of the trouble.

    I do because you said that the manager obviously knew you would not be able to do what you did before.

    Am I wrong to say that it involves you not being willing to accept that situation/fact, even though you knew it was true, for you formulated it yourself and assumed that is what your manager was thinking, you did not know it for sure, you assumed that's what he had concluded.

    You did not say that you thought your manager assumed you would not be able to do your job the way you had before falling ill, you said that your manager obviously KNEW that you would not be able to perform (adequately).

    I do not know that this was indeed the case, I can imagine you would have wanted to hold into your work and at least have come to a reasonable solution, e.g., if you had to work less, at least remain employed, maybe do some less strenuous tasks or work a few hours less each week.

    Then again, as you stated, you had no contract and they probably felt that they were under no obligation to keep you on and officially they were not under obligation. This can be looked at from various angles, was it sensible to continue working on the basis of no contract?

    If you are not qualified and come to a job by means of qualification, whether technical kills or academic then to many or most employers, you are a labourer and dispensable. If they view things rthat way, and do not work according to any code of loyalty, and it is hard but most do not, then no matter how hard you work, no matter how many hours you put in, it may mean nothing to them, because the very reason they did not give you a contract is they do not want to owe anyone anything, where they can. Work or job agencies work entirely according to this principle, whee employers seek to be free of getting stuck with employees, because with a contract after a certain amount of years it gets hard to fire people and you gain lots of extra rights.

    People can then remain on sick leave for ages and they cannot be fired as easily, it's for this reason employer's prefer to pay agencies a truckload of money on the short-term so that they are provided with workers whenever they want for however long they want. Sometimes companies may be doing less business and do not need as many workers so if they have everyone on contracts they ere stuck with them. If I had a business I can imagine also thinking about such things. How am I to pay them if the work dries up for some time?

    Nonetheless, to treat you so unkindly, if they were in fact unwilling to work something out for you, like for reasons of simple human kindness, is not a nice way to treat you, if that is the way it was, after all, you worked hard for 4 years, never had a day off, worked long hours.

    The problems start with things like this though, when you muddle up one part with another, because then it sounds like you experienced it as a kind of conspiracy against you, and that starts to stretch things a little, as mostly a company cannot get absolutely everyone to agree on the same thing or to gang up on someone.

    For instance, your CEO left, and so did your Head of Department. The result of that switch, came at a bad moment for you personally, as the new people knew nothing of you. The person that sent you off to Occupational Health, according to you, simply hoped that particular department would recommend that you stop working, but you did not know that, you assumed it, maybe it was not like that, but if you desperately started suspecting others of being against you, when it was to start with, as you said, a matter concerning a nasty, inconsiderate manager, then the fact that others picked up on your stress, which is not just stress but then at that point desperation, may have worked against you. If at Occupational Health you started saying things like: The new head just wants to get rid of me!!! that very bit about it all may have been relayed back to her, at that point they would have started to think you were becoming a true problem for them, as it was about the manager according to you and they may have been able to listen at first, but at the point you started accusing all kinds of different people, if you did, then that would have concerned them if they became aware of it/heard about it being like that.

    The lesson to take away, if you cannot salvage anything at all, is not to work on a permanent basis with a contract, if you do, it is for your own account.

    Notwithstanding all of the above, I do still feel that there's something not right about this, if you worked hard for 4 years, loyally, and there were no problems that you've failed to mention here, then I feel you were or are owed something, if not to start with only for the reason of simple human kindness, and it is after all a medical organisation. The only way to set about finding out, is calmly and diplomatically.

    However, you resigned and I reckon that was a mistake.

  • Hi Tjohn,

    Sorry but this is very complicated and if i didnt sit down with you and explain then its hard to put into words but here goes

    1- yes i did resign but do you think it is reasonable to be kept waiting for an outcome from this for 12 months?

    2- on 1st of JUNE the whole workforce attended a team building day in the college and we were split into groups (CEO was in my group) and we were in a meeting about courses we could attend and i suddenly took unwell.My CEO said to me to go out of the room and get some fresh air but i fealt even worse so he said to me to go home (4.00 pm).On the way home i fealt worse and picked my girlfriend up from work and told her i need to go the hospital because i knew there was something not right as i couldnt breathe properly.I was admitted into hospital for a week and was diagnosed with COPD and ASTHMA.I kept in constant contact with my work and i was due to start my holidays in the middle of june for 3 weeks.i returned to work on 13th luly still not feeling right and the next day i was working with a collegue and he ran to get our immediate manager as i was struggling to breathe and had agonising pain in my lungs and we went up to reception where he said to the receptionist (GET HIM AN AMBULANCE).I was taken to hospital and x-rays were done and it turned out to be severe pneumonia in both my lungs.I went back to work and my Head of Finance along with the vice president were there and i told them what the hospital said and showed the vice president (who is a consultant) the letter and medication i was given.He said to me "do you realise how serious this is",i want you to take this medication (3,000 mg amoxicillan and steroid tablets) right now and go home to your bed and i dont want you back at work till you are fully recovered).I returned to work in early august and thats when my manager totally changed towards me,bringing me down in front of the team who was working under me and pulling me into meetings in his office every 2nd day to criticise me or say different things to me and then would say to me YOU CAN GO NOW.this went on till the 12th september when i went to my CEOs secretary and she sent me to the doctor (i kept copies of every metting we had and what was said) and she emailed the CEO the same day to let him know what was going on and he started emailing me at home (i have all the emails) then eventually asked me to meet him for a coffee to talk about it at the end of November and said he would get back to me.As i said emails went back and forward between us and just before xmas he sent me an email sayint to enjoy my xmas and new year and he would contact me after the holidays.I heard nothing despite emailing at least once every week and eventually on the 16th April i recieved a call from a woman (Michelle Wylie) saying she was the NEW Head Of Finance And Building services and she was calling to ask me to come into College to have a chat and meet me as she only started in January.I said i had been emailing the CEO every week for months and she said both Head Of Finance and the CEO had left in January.I went in and met her and was talking to her and i said to her "Lets be honest michelle,my manager doesnt want me back does he" to which she replied 2im not going to lie to you,your right" (which she later denied saying).She asked me to attend Occ Health and i went to see a Dr Jeffrey and told her i loved my job and wanted to return to work and the only person who i spoke about was my manager,no one else),so she wrote a letter saying i was happy to return to work as long as the bullying and intimidation would stop (i have a copy of the report from O/H).4 weeks later i was sent an email saying the college wanted me to attend another O/H,this time a private one and i went to that also and the dr (polish name) wrote a report saying the same thing as the other Dr.Nothing happened for a while apart from Michelle Wylie emailing me with a load of inconsistencies she had wrote in previous emails and when i questioned what she had put in previous emails compared to what she was writing now she wouldnt reply to my emails and this was the following JULY and by this time my sick pay was running out and i decided i had had enough.

    3- she sent me a copy of my sickness and there were things on there that were IMPOSSIBLE for example:My sickness started on 26th May,when she wasnt even at the college when i took unwell on the 1st JUNE .I was on sick the January before straight after the holidays when it clearly states on my pay slip that i took 3 days holiday straight after the holidays because the manager said we had to use up our holidays befor 31st march or we would loose them and thats the Colleges quietest time,and after i questioned her about where all this paperwork had come from in my personell file she said "i was just updating our records) (when there was not 1 sheet of paper in my file on the 26th April when i had my first meeting with her).The 4 years i was there were the best 4 years of my life,i loved my job and every single person i worked with so i did not have any grievances with a single person till i came back from being on the sick.Your right, other people who witnessed this were afraid to speak up for fear of loosing their jobs and i dont blame them but the amount of people who said this guy thinks he ownes this company as he is a cheeky pig once he starts.I didnt mention this manager was an Ex Seargent in the army and he spoke to people like he was still in the army,but he knew when to do it and when not to for example we used to use radios (our team) because the building was so big and he used to shout over the radio for me to call him on his office phone and when i did he would say to me "MEETING IN MY OFFICE IN 10 MINUTES) and hang up.I can assure you i done everything in my power to defuse this situation but to no avail.Once again sorry for the rant Tjohn but i done nothing wrong apart from develop an incurable disability

    Thanks for taking the time to listen

    Stuart Weir

  • I meant to say Tjohn that they paid me all my due holidays when my employment was finished but i would have preferred to loose my holidays and return to work as my P60 for the year before was £28,000 (and my salary was £17,000) so that shows how much overtime i done throughout the year

  • Hi. Me too similarly bullied so much at work. My union fought for me and I got a decent amount of cash to leave. I still felt I had a case for compenstion. A solicitor then warned me of the stress I would be put through, so I let it go. The moment I decided to stop fighting, I began slowly to feel better about it. I look back now and feel so glad that I didn't struggle through and relieved I took control by stopping the fight...the anger and bitterness also stopped when I chose to draw a line under it all and get on with the rest of my life. Take care and I hope the unfairness of all this doesn't waste any more of your time and energy. x

  • Hi Julie,we were not allowed to join a union as the men at the top of the ladder said that the college will not recognise a union.You seem to have went through similar to me so i know what you went through.Im starting to get over it now but when i think of the lies and stress they put me through it makes me angry,all that to save one man but i hope he gets whats due to him.Thanks for the reply xx

  • Just answer your first question quickly Stuart, before reading the rest, no I do not think it is fair, but, the way things work is that the law is the law, acts and rules attached to certain ways or actions you take, mean even if the reasons behind it all say there was something not right within the company/institution, even if you were unfairly treated, once you resign you make your position weaker. That's what I meant, it means I think you certainly HAD a case, if what you revealed was all accurate, whether or not, after resigning you will be able to get things put right, I don't know but I think that the answer is perhaps no.

    Read the rest now and this is what I think.

    To get it put right you'd need someone there to sit up and take notice of you (on the college board of directors), and to make work of it, someone who would put it to the board. Whether the board would be persuaded to change their idea, reinstate you, and then see where you can all go from there, is another matter, someone would have to be very nice there.

    Your fellow workers probably knew then that it was not okay, what was going down and as you said, even shared some of the frustrations with that manager, however, ordinary employees are afraid of getting kicked out too, and so I expect they weren't about to organise a sit in or strike.

    Somehow, it was the very top you would have needed to get to, and if you had been able to get an appointment, the way to go, would have been to take a back-up person, a kind of witness, and best of all a counselor, a legal person, if possible. Dealing with these matters alone leads to such a person as you described being able to say one thing then deny it later on if they feel the need or realise it was not okay to say in the first place.

    12 months is an unreasonably long time to wait.

    Let's face it, that was a horrible position t be in, I fully get how you must feel about losing everything, after all you built up connections to all kinds of other employees.

    All as I can see is that they must have seen you as a person who is dispensable.

    The meetings, that's when you really needed a second person accompanying you, but if they were in-work ones called at very short notice then you had obviously no opportunity to do that as the amount of notice given was next to nothing, thus unreasonable. That alone is a ground with which to call out anyone in authority, simply because to anyone with any brains (common sense), it is not okay to treat anyone that way. The rules will state that people ''must be informed of such matters on time'' and given a reasonable amount of time to formulate a response.

    You seem to have been given no reasonable treatment at all.

    That a body such as that college has no independent in-house body, meaning like a Works Council/union or board that mediates between employee and employer(s) is weird, and that's hard for me to imagine,

    I mean it would be no good them having a kind of union that must do everything the employer(s) say, that is why the body has to be independent, and an institution has to be signed up to take notice of those in the Works Council or Union, some of the things the union or body will make everyone aware of concern matters that have not only been signed up to in agreements but are acts and laws defined and in force through national law, sometimes even international law, but certainly, these days what with the EU, rules that are in force through European legislation.

    That situation, as outlined by you, sounds very intimidating.

    The army trained manager now sounds to me like a Little Hitler, if this is what he did, talking to you on a porta-phone and not giving you a chance to say a thing (talking DOWN to you), ordering you around unreasonably that way, he sounds like the classic case of a person in authority who indeed does imagine that he owns the place and so having that individual power, he either cannot deal with it or knowingly misuses it to vent his personal weaknesses, like standing on your head to make himself taller.

    This is the danger of individuals within an organisation or at a workplace, gaining power, maybe wishing to gain promotion, so being very ambitious, and not caring who gets blown away in the process, the danger is the position giving them unmonitored power to act incorrectly towards employees. Certain individuals may not even be ambitious, they may simply be a little bit nuts, or completely nuts but be good at hiding it, as you did describe, nuts or plain nasty, I've seen it often, people being able to take out a lifetime of frustrations on other people once in any position of authority. It's classic bad behaviour..

    I have won tribunals, in fact won two, without any help, it was a case of a civil servant, trying to overrule his superiors, ignoring their rulings, even the one ruling dished out in my favour at the first tribunal.

    I made it known that he said he refused to carry out the councillors orders (made it known at the second tribunal after winning the first) let them know exactly what he had said, what he had said was: Well those councillors can say it is okay but I need documentation.

    The documentation he supposedly needed, involved paperwork that he had no right to ask for.

    Once I made all of this clear and also repeated his very own words, word for word, to the higher ups he was trying to place himself above, I won again. He lost his job. They didn't like realising that this employee was trying to act as though he had more power than they did.

    You need to find a legal representative who will help you, one who will not need paying, they do exist, sure they do, some people have worked in a profession, such as law, stopped doing it and may be interested in helping people.

    Contracts of employment: an introduction

    Although it might not be in writing, all employees have a contract of employment.

    __________________________

    Hey, Stuart, I just read one of the links provided by David, and this is exactly what you need, and it also says exactly what I was saying: you always have rights, in fact, it says you always have a contract of employment, whether you are aware of it or not.

    The following is taken from David's link here, it tells you where to go to get the FREE help and advice you need.

    nidirect.gov.uk/contracts-o...

    What is a contract of employment?

    A contract of employment is an agreement between an employer and an employee which sets out their employment rights, responsibilities and duties. These are called the 'terms' of the contract.

    •Terms of a contract - find out more

    Your employment contract does not have to be in writing, but you’re entitled to a written statement of the main terms within two months of starting work.

    The employment contract is made as soon as you accept a job offer. If you start work it will show that you accepted the job on the terms offered by the employer, even if you don't know what they are. Having a written contract could cut out disputes with your employer at a later date, and will help you understand your employment rights.

    You and your employer are bound to the employment contract until it ends (usually by giving notice) or until the terms are changed (usually in an agreement between you and your employer).

    •Changes to employment conditions – read more

    •More about notice

    The employment rights you have will often depend on whether you are classed as an ‘employee’, ‘worker’ or ‘self employed’. These depend on the type of contract you have with your employer.

  • Hi Tjohn,

    First of all i want to thank you as you seem a very inteligent man who knows what hes talking about.reading other replies and also your own i feel i would be better just trying to forget whats happened because the stress i would be under would more than likely affect my health and i am bad enough as it is without having to go through a tribunal. I have been to a medical by the DWP and i have been put on ESA for 18 months as they done a lung function test on me and it was 44% so i will just get on with my life.i miss the salary i was on but i dont have the stress anymore.once again thank you for your time in replying to my blog.Stuart

  • My pleasure Stuart, you are most welcome, I'd help you in any way I am able, it upsets me whenever I see people being ill-treated.

    I knew you'd actually decided it's all too much, and that now you must just deal with it and let it go. You have a right, if nothing else, to blow off steam and try to communicate your feelings to others, that helps lay it to rest.

    If you do ever need any help, from me, just ask.

    I'm all for the underdog, I'm all for equality and fair treatment and I definitely hate the class system too. This is why if I see this old-fashioned idiotic nonsense being carried out even now, in this day and age, I'll always speak out against it.

    It all boils down to an individual on a power trip Stuart, it's good to put it into perspective, obviously the body or charity you worked for is not represented by this sad person, thank heavens for that or we'd all be lost. What I am well-aware of is individual power and how sometimes just one person somehow gets people to latch on to what is their own incorrect thinking, most of it is fear-based, the power then, but we need to remember what kind of effect certain people can have on great numbers of people if they are allowed to get away with it. Let's not try to name all of the wicked dictators from the past and present day.

    Hey I hope you get to grips with your health, as I do for all others here as well, I know it as I too am battling it every day.

  • Hi Tjohn,

    You are absolutley right about this manager being on a power trip and by letting off steam by letting others know what i went through has made me feel better this morning (not health ways,but in

    Myself).Asi said once my ceo left i dont know who knew about and i was always treated very good by the men in authority at the top in the college and i had huge respect for these men and 1 man spoiled me having a job for life.My old Head of Finance was a fantastic woman and always said i would make my way to a top position within the company as i was an extremely hard worker,very pleasant to people and i would go beyond the call of duty to help anyone,which made me want to do my job better but i would find it hard saying a bad word about the college.i know they done things totally wrong in my case and the way some things were done but overall up intil this bullying started i wouldnt say a bad word about my work,yes it was long hours and sometimes hard work but it was very enjoyable.theres loads of things i know about this manager as he told everone that i was his right hand man and told me everything,and even had me doing things that i was uncomfortable with (against company policy and sometimes illegal) and if i could get someone high up to listen to me he would be out on his ear but he is an employee and i would probably be seen as an disgruntled ex employee) and i am not the only person who knows this info,it was myself and another one of my team who done these things for him bit thats all under the bridge now but it just makes me angry that hes getting away with this behaviour just because he has a much more important job than i had and it would be much easier to replace me than it would him. I really do not like this Michelle Wylie because she started a job and didnt know me at all yet she wrote all these lies anout me,said things then denied it but if lieing and stealing is what you need to do to get on in a job id rather be unemployed

    Thanks Tjohn

  • Stuart - you have a good "constructive dismissal" case.

    I work for a security company who have done their best to accommodate me. I can no longer do the job i was employed for so they got me a job office based.

    Have you spoken to a solicitor? try to find one who will do this for you on a no win, no fee basis. because you have had the sense to keep all your communications you will find you are starting on good ground. It is obvious you have been bullied into resigning. The only problem is the stress element, we both know you will be stressed by the actions. You may find they can also turn it against you

    " he told everone that i was his right hand man and told me everything,and even had me doing things that i was uncomfortable with (against company policy and sometimes illegal) "

    sadly they may say you did these things without your line managers knowledge but then why didn't they discipline you for them?

    I would suggest you speak to a solicitor, take time to think about what the solicitor thinks ( stress caused, chances etc) and then make your decision.

    I wish you luck and better health stuart

  • What i find incredible is you worked for a college that should understand illness.

  • Hi krazylady,

    The manager who done all this to me was not a medical professsional,he was an ex army sergeant and i think most decisions regarding staff issues were dealt with at a lower level and not by (college council) who are all professional medical people.i would put money on it that if the president asked where i was (as he hadnt seen me in college) he would have been told im on long term sick because of my illness and NOT because of bullying managers

  • Hi Stuart,

    Krazylady meant, I think, that as it is a medical organisation anyone would imagine they'd be more than anyone else aware of the need for attention to the well-being of everyone, mening they'd be keen to make sure that their employees are treated fairly.

    I read all of their rules and regulatiions yesterday and they clearly define therein what they do stand for, the things named were good: no discrimination based on gender, race, etc, etc, this was all relative to the medical practitioners that sign up with them.

    I looked for info for you, on their website but couldn't find a thing on actual ordinary, non-medically trained employees working at their location in Glasgow.

    What Krazylady says below, about taking care with naming people, is what I also thought, I think you need to be more diplomatic, if you want to remove the names you named, I think if you ask a moderator here, they'll help you do that without having to remove all of your post.

  • sadly Stuart, i reckon your right, the problem is your boss does not seem to have the ability to understand others - that makes him a crappy boss, in my industry we have a lot of ex army and police and i would say 99% are great but i have also come across the odd one who thinks he has the right to be right because hes an ex military/police officer - ( mind you as his manager i put HIM right). HE is the one with the problem hun, NOT you, just remember that!

    What i meant by my comment is that you would think that a college which deals with medical issues would ensure all managers, no matter where they work, are sensitive to illness and disease, (poor analagy coming.......) like a sweet maker would be more sensitive to its staff teeth ( warned you!!!!!!) I was working at Heathrow Airport and my company keep there eye on air pollution ( better analagy) but we have nothing to do with aircraft - just our office is next to a blast screen. When 1 member of staff became ill they started to investigate immediately, i think it is to protect themselves as well, but at least they looked into it.

  • Also Stuart, can i suggest you do not name people on public forums ( like this site) just to protect yourself - again, it may well be used against you.

    good luck.

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