My father recently became very ill completely out the blue. He is an active and young 80+
He started with severe abdomen pain and vomiting and was taken A&E where his symptoms could not be controlled.
He had a CT scan, ecg, chest xray etc. We were told he had heart failure, kidney disease, liver problems, very high potassium, fluid in his chest and abdomen as well as infection in his bowel. He was also breathless, very, very dehydrated and cool to the touch
I felt for the first two days we may lose him.
We are 5 days in. He can chat now but is very tired, hasn't eaten. He has a catheter, anti sickness (but still vomits), pain relief, anti biotics.
He's still awaiting an echocardiogram.
They seem to be doing their best for him in hospital but it is very hard to get an explanation or reason for all this.
I'm very worried about what's to come and if he will recover. I feel we don't know what we're dealing with and no one has really explained the situation to myself and his wife or him.
Today he looked very tired and down, in less than a week everything has changed for him.
I'd love any input please 🙏🏼
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Flowerbed24
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I am not really an expert, but some of it could be related to his heart issues. My father in law passed away from HA after a severe stomach ache. Fluid retention in lungs and other parts of the body is usually associated with weak heart.
Thank you, oh yes it definitely heart related. We just need someone to be much more open about it all. I think they're assuming we understand what's going on and I'm constantly worried about if he's going to be ok the next hour, day... Thank you.
Mu father, aged 76, is currently in HDU with many of the same symptoms following a heart attack over a week ago. We know his is down to the damage the heart attack did to his heart and he now has heart failure as a result. I can’t help with any info as we are also living hour by hour and dreading what the next day might bring, but I am here if you want to talk in the coming days.
This sounds similar to my sister. She waw 80 and was admitted suddenly with severe heart failure... breathing difficulties, infection, sickness, fluid on lung, all cardio related and she was in hospital 3 weeks, various drips, drugs , tests . Her son asked for a phone call from the doc to explain everything.At first we really did not think she'd survive, but she did. It took a while and even after discharge she was still nauseous, which was a drug reaction, so they changed her meds a few times to get it right.. She lost a lot of weight and is weaker, but she still lives alone and can look after herself day to day, with a bit of domestic help ( weekly cleaning and shopping). She gets monitored every few weeks at the heart clinic.
Hello Flowerbed. I am replying to you solely because you've stated you would welcome any input. My reply to you is written in the hope that you are truly open to that prospect.
I think your father has been very lucky being fit, independent and able right up to his eighth decade. It sounds as though he lives and enjoys his life to the full!
Nonetheless, as those of us fortunate enough to do so approach our eighties, many realize that time is not on our side and organs that previously worked like a charm may begin to fail owing to nothing but old age.
In the western, 'civilized' world, we can sometimes struggle to accept that life has a course to run and will inevitably end as a direct result of old age (if we're lucky) and its associated infirmities. This is life's natural pattern, well recognized by many ancient civilizations, notably India, Nepal and China.
In the UK (and the USA), our infirm elderly most likely find themselves in hospital, highly medicalized, with their anxious families hoping that doctors can and will 'keep mum/dad going'. We become fearful of loss. Fixing things is, after all, what hospitals are supposed to do. I think that sometimes we overlook the need to stand back for a moment, pause and ask ourselves 'what kind of fix, for how long and under what terms of life quality?'
If we open up to the natural outcome of a good and long life without fearing it, our question may change from 'what can be done to fix dad' to 'what can be done to make him as comfortable as possible both physically and mentally so that he can rest peacefully and with dignity at this stage in his life?'
Fearing the completion of life in old age for those witnessing it is natural, but cannot prevent it happening. Trying to prolong life when organs begin to fail in unison may not be the best way forward for the person experiencing the attempts. Trying to prolong comfort and manage pain during the natural process is, in my personal opinion, a wiser move.
So, my offering to you with the greatest respect is to make sure that the doctors are doing everything possible to keep your father as comfortable and pain-free as is achievable. That done, have an absolutely honest, calm and fearless conversation with your father about what his expectations and preferences are at this stage.
His wishes should be paramount. Then speak with the lead consultant and go from there. Depending upon your father's opinion, the doctors may recognize a shift in perspective and share more information with you and your family as a result.
You're already brave. I hope that you, your family and your father find unity, strength, dignity and peace at this difficult time.
I am greatly relieved that you are comfortable with my post Flowerbed; I was rather nervous about sending it. Regarding the lack of explicit discussion, having had and depending upon the conversation with your father, ask the lead consultant if they are considering palliative care and see if that changes their approach to you.
After looking brighter for a couple of days, today my dear Dad was worse again and a doctor has come and spoken to him about DNR, this feels like a huge shift.
I think you're right Flowerbed. The doctor seems now to be aware that you're all thinking along the same lines, i.e. enabling a peaceful process with as little stress as possible.
Hopefully, hospital staff will manage the situation now with as little distress and as much pain relief as your dad needs. If the hospital seems stretched or you're worried about their ability to sustain a good level of care and attention for your dad, and you have a facility available locally, you could do worse than enquire at a nearby hospice to see if they'll take your dad as an in-patient (if they have capacity). Any doctor at a hospital, or a GP, can refer a patient to a hospice as required (by the hospice).
The main thing is for the hospital management plan not to generate any distress for your dad. As long as he and you feel that all is now well-managed, there's no need to change the situation.
Sending you and your dad all my good wishes for dignity, calm and peace.
Admins, this post probably breaks the rules as it is not about heart disease and possibly distressing to some. I will not be upset if you remove it.
Bridgeit, what you say is so true, and your reply brought great comfort to me. We all need to accept that we have a finite life and think how we would like to manage the end of it. My wife died of cancer around 2 ½ years ago and we knew she had less than a year to live. She decided she wanted to die at home and we slept in the same bed until two days before she died and I managed to nurse her myself until the final week.
Unfortunately, we were under continuous pressure from the McMillan nurse who felt she would be more comfortable in hospital. On one occasion we gave in and she was taken to hospital by ambulance (she was paralysed from the waist down due to a spinal met) where she waited on her own for 16 hours on a trolly in A&E. It was covid time and I was not allowed in. She was eventually admitted to a ward where there was a shortage of nurses due to covid and no visiting. After three days I got a distressed phone call from her saying please rescue me, and I persuaded them to discharge her, after no treatment. She arrived home her night clothes lost and her dressing gown covered in vomit and urine. She was terrified and shaking after being constantly plagued by a dementia patient.
At that point we agreed that she would not leave home again until she died, my constant regret is that I might have spared her the whole ordeal by resisting the nurse more firmly.
She died a couple of weeks later in our own bed with good pain control by the hospice/community nurses and we talked constantly until the last 24 hours, when she said "im dying now" and fell silent.
I think the moral of this is; accept death when you know it is imminent and do your utmost to have the death you want for yourself or your relative. Resist pressure if you and your relative believe you are right.
Hello Brack. Such unnecessary distress for you and your dying wife was unimaginably cruel. I'm sure the Macmillan Nurse was advising with all good intentions, but on this occasion IMO the advice was clearly misplaced. I don't think you have just cause to feel any sense of guilt or remorse; you did as you were (ill) advised and recognized the misjudgement in time to correct it. We are human, not infallible, and mistakes happen in times of great distress. Based upon my experience, the only place the terminally ill should be directed towards if in the last few weeks of the dying process and unable, for whatever reason, to be managed at home is within a hospice. These specialist palliative care operatives, usually charities and run without any government funding whatsoever, are much better geared towards end of life management than are general hospital A&E and geriatric wards.
One thing I would advise anyone reading Flowerbed's thread is that it is worthwhile for each of us of a certain age and/or with certain illnesses to have in our possession an 'advance decision document', which sets out one's personal preferences regarding end-of-life management, including preference for hospice or home placement and/or support (hospice 'at home'). This is a legally-binding, powerful document that cannot be easily overridden. A copy should be lodged with any combination of a trusted friend/relative, an 'health and welfare' attorney (LPA), solicitor and/or a GP.
Meanwhile, I hope you are able to find some peace in loving memories, enabling the disturbing hospital A&E/ward experiences you and your wife experienced slowly to fade into deep background.
Fifty years ago the ward sisters would be able to,say “the end is near” or “recovery is possible. But now, with all the knowledge and scientific advance, further things are possible. But might not be desirable; even the ward sisters with all their experience cannot tell you if the end is near, nowadays, because it might be possible to extend his life. If you are open with those who care for him they may be ore open with yo but this just might not be possible. What bridgeit has said is valuable.
After looking brighter for a couple of days, today my dear Dad was worse again and a doctor has come and spoken to him about DNR, this feels like a huge shift.
They probably aren't being explicit because they just don't know yet.My sister was in hospital earlier this year, in a coma for 12 days, we lost count of the times we were told she wouldn't survive, then that she was "just a hiccup away from a disaster." Then it was she would never walk again and would always need 24/7 care.
She's home, walking, and actually better than before.
Thank you, yes I understand. I'm sorry you went through that. I just don't want anything to take us by surprise, my Dad is very, very dear to me and my children and his wife ❤️
My friend's husband is in hospital with sepsis and is finding the same as yo u. She can't get anyone to ex plain things to her. She keeps saying she's "trying to catch the doctor". I suggest you find o ut what time the doctors' rounds are and insist on being there whether it's visiting time or not and refuse to move until you've spoken to him
Thanks so much for that suggestion. I have thought of that but wondered if that would be too much. If I don't get a clear conversation today, I will do that. Thanks again ❤️
Flowerbed. Have you managed to speak to any of the Doctors looking after your Father, either on the phone or in person? I would speak to the ward sister or staff nurse in charge and say very firmly that you need to speak to one of his Doctors.
It could be that they just don't know what is going on yet. Good Luck 🤞
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