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Keto vs Western Diet

davebal67 profile image
51 Replies

I am a big advocate of a Keto diet. It's 11 month since my bypass operation for blocked arteries.I have lost a total of 6 stones, I am off all BP meds including beta blockers and should be the rest on my 12 month anniversary after I see my surgeon.

My lipids are in the optimal range and the following article shows the pro's and Cons of both diets.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

I very rarely eat bread and I never eat cereals or pastas. I do have the occasional Indian.

I also use continue CGM to help assist with flat lining my glucose on average. My projected H1bac is at 27mmol/mol.

Regards

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davebal67
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51 Replies
Stentsandrun profile image
Stentsandrun

Mmmm. One of the most inconclusive reports I have ever read! And I think you will find, the Keto diet is not recommended for people with CHD, or endorsed by the BHF.

Why do you keep promoting this?

davebal67 profile image
davebal67 in reply to Stentsandrun

Because my blood works show that it's the correct approach. The advice you mention is flawed and given time food rich in carbs will be shown to be the true cardiovascular risk.

Stentsandrun profile image
Stentsandrun in reply to davebal67

It's not my advice, it's that given by the vast majority of GP's, consultants, the BHF, Heart UK and the NHS, plus many others.

Clearly they are all wrong! The fact you were obviously very overweight is probably the most important factor, nothing to do with an crazy unbalanced diet!

Bluelobby profile image
Bluelobby in reply to Stentsandrun

He promotes it because it works , and it works for me too . All you mention are reading from the same song sheet written years ago and usually funded by big foodie .Have a nice day

Just to add I'm not and wasnt overweight

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to Bluelobby

People like the above are without being educated or any knowledge barking statements, alot of Heart conditions are caused by Herditary factors. I have replied below with a full medical plan that's run by UK NHS leading weightloss centre. And I would say its very similar to the Keto. I tend to ignore the negative Nellie's who think they know it all. I dont dignify them with a response. I am following the science and the science has proven we don't need that excess of carbs.

Best wishes

Shabana

AlfredV profile image
AlfredV in reply to Stentsandrun

It has worked miracles for me, but I'm sure some people are more suited to refined carbohydrates and statins.

Bumpitybump profile image
Bumpitybump

Fantastic effort, great it worked for you and others too but likely you know everyone responds differently to various food types. Very impressive results though.

pasigal profile image
pasigal

Based on this paper I would not touch the keto diet if you have CAD. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/382...

Bluelobby profile image
Bluelobby in reply to pasigal

Have a watch of dr Ken berry's youtube vids , well dont even watch , just read the comments from all the real people who have benefited Have a nice day

davebal67 profile image
davebal67 in reply to Bluelobby

I watch Dr Ken also Dr Ben Bik.an and Dr Robert Lustig. After I went for speciality bloods my fasting insulin results came back less than 6 which shows I am insulin sensitive and I am metabolically healthy.

CalvinHb profile image
CalvinHb in reply to Bluelobby

How to discredit your point in one fell swoop "read [YouTube] comments."

Bluelobby profile image
Bluelobby in reply to CalvinHb

I dont discredit real people , I discredit so called studies funded by Kellogg's and big pharma.Anyway back to my ribeyes

Beautiful
CalvinHb profile image
CalvinHb in reply to Bluelobby

Lack of rigour automatically discredits, and doesn't discriminate.

Steak looks lovely; natural food, not like the ultra-processed junk Kellogs produce!

Bluelobby profile image
Bluelobby in reply to CalvinHb

I concur

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974

Hi Dave thanks for sharing your story, as for those that are critics without professional knowledge.

I have started a plan that is being lead by the UKs NHS Top weightloss centre. It's Run by Dr Saira Hameed PHD in the human Body Hormones and how the body reacts.

There are 46 people on my course atleast 50% have very serious health conditions including my, I have Heart Failure last scan upto 32% , High Cholesterol, High Blood Pressure, Under Active thyroid. Pre Diabetes with a score of 47 so literally border line.

The program is called Satpro. It does not call itself Keto Diet but I would say its extremely similar. But Satpro is backed by Science and its really good for heart patients. Look at the picture all the colours are good for us and the grey are bad for you. Our body doesn't need the cards we throw at it on a daily basis. Example our body need 1spoons of sugar but 150g boiled potatoes is 9 spoons so the fat controller (Insulin) then uses the 1 spoon and sweeps the rest to fat stores.

I have been told to buy Keytone test straps and check a couple of times a week to avoid ketosis. And told to check mu blood pressure as my medication will need lowering as a positive side effects of the plan. And also to check my glucose levels. Also type 2 Diabetics thst have been successful on the plan are no longer Diabetic .

She has written a book for those not lucky enough to get on her plan.

It's Called

The full diet, by Saira Hameed.

And it has a section in there for clinicians and I would take a read of that first so you know what to monitor if you have health problems and you will be able to show your drs this section. As you health improves medication will need lowering.

Best wishes

Shabana

Cans and can'ts
davebal67 profile image
davebal67 in reply to Shabana1974

That's very interesting. My diet is a modified Keto. I make everything from scratch. For breakfast I have strawberry and Banana smoothies made from frozen mix or eggs when I go to work. For lunch at work I eat pistachios and have regular meat and veg for dinner.I don't snack at night and I fast between 6pm and 9am.

What's important to me is not to spike my blood glucose, and I follow Dr Ben Bikman who has spent his career researching metabolic health and how the fat cell grows and the role insulin plays in telling the body what to do with the energy you consumes.

I use a continuous glucose monitor once every couple of months.

In 2020 my H1bac was 98 it's now 33 and it has been that for the last 2 years.

I have heart disease running rampant in my family and have lost two siblings yo this dreadful disease.

My cardiologist agreed that we were going against mainstream dietary advice but he did say all my bloods were in the optimum range. We backed all this up showing my bypassed vessels had no furring and the original atherosclerosis vessels had not got any worse since the bypass which was 11 months ago.

Because of my physical condition I was chosen to be the first patient to undergo bypass at Spire Hospital.

I excercise daily and so far this year I have cycled over 1000kms outdoors and also cycle indoors on days it's raining. I also walk over 10000 steps per day.

CalvinHb profile image
CalvinHb in reply to Shabana1974

Could you share the methodology please? The above is meaningless without that context.

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to CalvinHb

Look her up she's on YouTube as well under Imperial college London account

CalvinHb profile image
CalvinHb in reply to Shabana1974

I was meaning the research paper, not YouTube channel.

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to CalvinHb

She talks about the the research and and science in the video or your can buy her book the Full diet. We get all the information on a daily basis. In a few weeks when I have it all.

CalvinHb profile image
CalvinHb in reply to Shabana1974

Does it have a link to any research papers? Books and YouTube videos aren't peer reviewed.

CalvinHb profile image
CalvinHb in reply to Shabana1974

OK, so what she is saying is avoid ultra-processed foods. Cook from scratch so you know what you are putting into your body.

All great advice. She's certainly not claiming that a fat rich diet will protect against atherosclerosis.

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to CalvinHb

Yes everything from scratch and if you need to use fats then only use from the list. For example a lentil bagel recipe. Or to fry an egg but only a small amount

davebal67 profile image
davebal67 in reply to Shabana1974

I pretty much follow the do's and don't eat anything from the donts. All those foods spike your blood sugars that causes the body to use insulin to control these spikes. I have treat once a month either haagen daz ice cream or cinema mix pop corn.

I don't drink alchohol and I don't take caffeine. I drink decaffeinated coffee. I don't ever want to be cut wide open to do another bypass.

It's sugars that causes NAFLD and the liver ferments these sugars hence the non alcoholic name.

Dementia is now becoming known as Diabetis 3 and I avoid sugars on a daily basis. I still eat real fruit, so bananas, apples and oranges.

I didn't always follow a healthy lifestyle but now I cycle 30 miles per day. I burn around 3000 calories with the excercise I do.

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to davebal67

Yes that's how she explains it the Insulin is the Fat controller. Because your body dose not know whether you put sugar or artificial sweetners in the body so it reacts to the sweet taste in the same way.

BaronFrankenstein profile image
BaronFrankenstein in reply to Shabana1974

Jesus. Full fat dairy, coconut and especially ghee are terrible for you. If you want to pile on the weight and wnd up with loads of brown fat around your waist and organs this is the diet for you.

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to BaronFrankenstein

Honestly that's what we have been brainwashed to think. Ans no one's saying use it but the tons. Low fat products is just the commercial companies way in to brainwashing us the think that's better for us. When actually it contains so many harm chemicals. The rule of thumb if you can not identify an ingredients in there raw form don't put it in your mouth. This is not a fad diet. It's Actually lead be science and fully qualified weight loss expert's in the NHS. So they are not making money from us.

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to Shabana1974

Also my Arteries are completely clear. No blockages no clots no nothing. On the other hand my poor brother low fat every has had 3 heart attacks fur up Arteries, stent to Bypass blockages the results speak for themselves

davebal67 profile image
davebal67 in reply to Shabana1974

How long since your operation?

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to davebal67

I have don't need surgery luckily. My Angioplasty was November and it results my Arteries are 100% clear no deposit. My biggest enemy is Carbs they are my biggest addiction. But I found a bagel recipe that has absolutely no cards, it's just Red lentils, physeĺlium husk, olive oil, salt, full fat yoghurt. So this will be my new sandwich go to. Nice bit of Chicken Tikka.

BaronFrankenstein profile image
BaronFrankenstein in reply to Shabana1974

Do people whondo this type of wating have strenuous jobs or do they tend to have office jobs? I just wondered becuase when ive tried high proteing low arb diets I dont have enough energy duting a 12 hour shift and i am craving carb and sugary foods bad

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to BaronFrankenstein

I am a full-time carer for my hubby that's disabled after a catastrophic stroke 3 years ago. He had a very rare type of Stroke that only 1% of stroke victims suffer.

This is why it's important to follow that Satpro plan and get your energy boasts from other foods.

I am talking about my Personally cares are my biggest enemy and is what has stopped me losing weight. I don't each a lots or oils, fats etc. Maybe a couple of tablespoons a week. But probably more considering over complicated process foods.

CalvinHb profile image
CalvinHb in reply to Shabana1974

You have no scientific way of concluding that your diet is the cause. Purely anecdotal.

I'm not saying that it is not the case, but here am I, followed the same diet as you for over a decade, but with quite the opposite in my arteries.

Anecdotal evidence is lethal, as there will always be anomalies.

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to CalvinHb

It is I can give you all the relevant information in a few weeks but right now I am in the early stages. But Dr Saira Hameed has done a PhD into Hormones and the bodies response. I have been on so many courses regarding weightloss I was before 2010 on a project to reduce childhood obesity. But this is the 1st time my mind as been blown and makes perfect sense to me. My brother has been low fat diet for years but his weight isn't shifted.

BaronFrankenstein profile image
BaronFrankenstein in reply to Shabana1974

How do you explain obesity in the Asian communities where ghee, coconut milk and yoghurt is used in a lot of traditional Asian foods?

At the end of the day, and I am talking from experience, eating a balanced diet, sensible portions, is the best way to lose weight combined with regular activity and exercise. You lose weight and have good sugar and fat levels in your blood.

Theres no easy diet route to getting healthy and losing weight. My sister for example has tried all the diets known to man but at the end of the day they failed because she hasnt the will power not to go back to eating fatty and sugary foods.

I just think following diets like the Keto may give what appear positive benefits short term but in the long term they may not. I can lose weight quick if i do a couple of weeks of high protein low carbs, but it doesnt stay off in the long term.

I remember a Harry Enfield sketch where its set in the 1930s and the doxtor recommends no exercise, plenty of sausages and 60 cigs a day. Makes me think of that.

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to BaronFrankenstein

85% of Asians use Sunflower oil very Rarely use ghee in the UK. I know as a white British person living in an Asian household and friends, Family and Neighbours. For over 33 years

I never Said I am following a Keto Diet I said Satpro is similar.

And yes oils and low fat over processed and foods that are over processed are very unhealthy in reality.

It's about returning to pure unadulterated foods like butter, Ghee fresh fruits and veg and in moderation.

Your example is like saying if you drink enough orange juice you will actually get drunk.

Nobody should eat or drink certain foods in excess. Its about moderation

I use Rapeseed oil (vegetable oil) As it has similar in properties but turns out its an Imflammation promoter.

I don't eat fried potatoes of any kind as in plays havoc with my IBS..

MoretonCross profile image
MoretonCross in reply to Shabana1974

I agree with all of the above... Stay clear of ALL plant seed oils rapeseed, sunflowerseed and any others. Cold pressed extra virgin olive oil good but expensive now, however you should be able to afford it owing to the savings from not buying low fat products and other such items. I shall check out the doctor's book and video that you recommend, it seems we are on the same page 😀 Thanks for posting. All the best to you...

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to MoretonCross

For me the cost of my health is more important. And yes the £4 bottle of extra virgin Olive oil 1 Litre is now £8.40. Honestly it's opened my eyes she displayed a white box and asked if we eat it obviously everyone said well we don't know what it is. She said exactly so why are you not doing the same with labels the list of chemicals in it do you know what they are. She's 💯 why are we putting unidentifiable food in our bodies. We all need to return to food as Nature intended.

Stentsandrun profile image
Stentsandrun in reply to Shabana1974

Butter, Ghee, lard, dripping and coconut oil?? You are not actually being serious are you?? I do believe you are just trolling to be honest!

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to Stentsandrun

Yet again a troll without education barks. I have reported your offensive attitude if you don't have anything nice to say don't tag me

Stentsandrun profile image
Stentsandrun in reply to Shabana1974

I tell you what, give one of the BHF nurses a ring and run your advice regarding the Butter, Ghee, dripping and coconut oil past them?

I have also reported your response for resorting to insults, if that's the best you can do I'll leave it there.

Anyway let us know what the nurse has to say?

Shabana1974 profile image
Shabana1974 in reply to Stentsandrun

No 1 if you can't handle insults don't hand them out.No 2 at your age you should know better than to fall for the processed hype

No 3 This information is from a fully qualified Dr with a PhD in the human Hormones and the bodies response. So her opinion regarding food is far more superior than a nurse

No 4 no one is so stupid to go eat gallons of the stuff in a day. But if a food requires some kind of fat it's better to use Natural fats rather than chemicals or Inflammation causing oils.

You don't have to follow good advice carry on pouring poison into your body

Hel52 profile image
Hel52

Hi davebla67

That’s amazing if you have found the right diet for you with the help of healthy professionals and it’s going in the right direction for you congratulations on your weight loss and coming of some medications

Regards Hel52.

DWizza profile image
DWizza

I don’t do keto , eat homemade breads, potatoes , rice, oats (all types) etc and my lipids are also optimal and I’m not pre diabetic 👍🏻. More of a Mediterranean diet overall. I suggest that you have created a calorie deficit in your Leto diet and lost weight , your body will function better . I’m not sold on the high saturated fat content of a keto.

With regards to populations and obesity it is commonly found that the increase is due to the access of western type diets , fast foods , ultra processed foods that are hugely calorie dense and highly palatable. This leads to the over consumption of energy that isn’t used up and stored as fat. Whatever anybody says , we can’t beat the laws of thermal dynamics and basal metabolic rates, energy in vs energy out. Feed your dog more and walk it less , it gets fat. Same applies to human 🤣👊🏻

davebal67 profile image
davebal67 in reply to DWizza

I don't eat oats or any form of Cereal as it causes huge blood glucose spikes. I do eat potatoes and occasionally pilau rice.I make chips using olive oil and I never eat out of takeaways and ultra processed fruits are a no no.

I kicked out caffeine due to effects on withdrawal from it during my first CT angiogram. I just listened to my body and decided it was not good for me. I don't drink alchohol.

I certainly would criticise your diet and for me it's all about my bloods and we are all very different, so what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for someone else. My carbs come from natural sources,so fruit and vegetables.

On average I burn 3000 calories per day and do not lead a sedentary life style.

davebal67 profile image
davebal67 in reply to davebal67

Ultra processed fruits should read ultra processed foods.

Sb1171 profile image
Sb1171

It would be great if there was a universally "good" diet that worked for everyone, but I don't think it exists.

Humans evolved as hunter gatherers and therefore are well adapted to eat protein, animal and fish fats and some carbs in the form of fruit, vegetables, berries and nuts. Over recent years (in evolutionary time) we have selectively bred wheat and rice and used them as a primary food source (agricultural revolution). This allowed larger populations to be fed with much less effort/cost. In some parts of the world we have also adopted dairy food sources. Finally, we found the potato in the new world.

Wheat, pasta, rice, potatoes and dairy are not what we evolved to eat and it is only recently that we have started to adapt to these food sources with varied success. For example some people are fine with dairy, yet a large part of the world's population is lactose intolerant. Many seem fine with wheat, others are gluten intolerant to some extent (often unaware).

A predominantly or heavily carb based diet uses glucose as the energy source. This requires the body to use insulin to manage. Some seem to cope fine with this, for others (perhaps with less adapted genes in this regard?) it seems to be a path to insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome and diabetes.

In the end, I think it means that if you put the wrong fuel in, the engine will run badly and this will lead to inflammation which can lead to all sorts of ills, including diabetes, heart disease, strokes, cancer etc.

It is not always easy to find out which fuels you are personally best suited for, but there is a sort of "base" human diet based around meat, fish, above ground vegetables, berries, fruit and nuts. This is often called the "Paleo" diet. It's also worth bearing in mind that "meat" meant lean game, not force fed, selectively bred, fat cows and pigs. With the exception of grains it also forms the core of the "mediterranean" diet. Building on this base we can add the "new fuels" that we seem to personally deal well with and drop the rest!

davebal67 profile image
davebal67

Here is my CGM from today. I had a banana before going on my Peloton for 1 hr at 9am. At 11am I ate 5 eggs, I then walked 10000 steps around the trafford centre. For a snack, I had half punnet of fresh stawbs and for dinner I had cabbage and mince.

Just going out for a 4k country walk.

Will then fast until tomorrow morning and then I will have a banana before 15mile cycle to work.

Continously glucose monitor.
baly_2023 profile image
baly_2023

God knows what is right , what is wrong.

I thought I was doing right 🤣

breakkie -Greek yoghurt and fruits or porridge and fruits

lunch - Sardines on sourdough or beans on sourdough or salad with sourdough

evening - one chapati, veggie or lentils , sometimes meat.

I've decided that what I ate compared to some others wasn't a recipe for a heart attack, so have continued to do so.

One day they tell you it's bad to eat something, then they tell you it's actually good, then they say stop it will kill you.

Who knows....

Ennasti profile image
Ennasti

The effort and the outstanding results deserves to be recognised but just like statins, beta blockers or even veganism its not for everyone. Im really glad it works for you.

I have perfect cholesterol levels, I have 0% calcium, I have clear arteries, I am not overweight and never really have been and I have never, ever been on any diet in all of my almost 60 years. My body does well on oats, some bread, a little meat, and I avoid packaged and processed foods where possible. I eat some packaged food - it’s very hard not to but I eat lots of fresh fruit and vege - not from a can, the freezer or a packet.

Each to their own. I eat naturally and it’s just what I like. The single biggest issue with the western diet is prepackaged and processed which is saturated with sugar (mostly corn syrup), salt, fat, and preservatives and chemicals. Sugar, salt and fat are not an issue on their own. They’re an issue because the western diet is filled with prepackaged and fast food that is lousy with it!

Starving your body of food types is not the answer. Eat naturally. If it is so far removed from being pulled from a plant, shot from the sky, fished from the ocean, or caught on the land that it needs chemicals and additives to make it look good or last longer, don’t eat it!

Make your own Indian, don’t order it. Make your own pasta sauce, don’t buy it in a packet. By fresh veges, don’t buy them in a can.

Eat less. We value restaurants that serve massive sized dishes because we think that equates to value. We upsize everything - which is purely a sales tactic that we’ve been sucked in to.

This is what is killing us. Eat less. Eat natural. You don’t need a diet.

Stentsandrun profile image
Stentsandrun in reply to Ennasti

100% agree. We are far too used to cheap food in this country and an awful lot of it is full of rubbish we don't kneed. As you say if it's been made in a factory don't go near it if you can avoid it.

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