I Despair!: I have just read an article... - British Heart Fou...

British Heart Foundation

54,711 members34,242 posts

I Despair!

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star
52 Replies

I have just read an article with a photograph of the Chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, grinning like a demented lunatic! From Saturday the rate of NI is being cut by 2p. This money goes to fund things like the NHS and pensions. It did not say how he is going to make the money up. We already have a cash starved NHS . Having been Health Secretary for six years one would have thought he had a better understanding of the NHS's needs. But then people become ministers for being mates not for knowledge and understanding of what they are minister of. And as regards pensions I have friends in Germany and Australia and the pension is are far better than here.

I am already down as they have diagnosed two serious infections in the macerated wounds on my remaining foot, and now I am a couple of notches further down. A couple of qualified people have said I would probably progress more with a different prosthetic but I have got nowhere in perusing this, and I imagine it is because the other type costs more than the clunky thing have now that feels like a weight hanging off my knee rather than part of me!

Written by
MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJH
Heart Star
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
52 Replies
ChoochSiesta profile image
ChoochSiesta

"Cash starved". I thought they got £168 billion every year?

Taviterry profile image
Taviterry

"Tax cuts" are always greeted as good news but, as you suggest, they mean less money for public services, all of which seem to need more money. On the radio this morning there was a guy from a minor political party saying that if it was in Government it would expect all government departments to make 5% economy savings. This has been a recurring theme of Governments for decades - I can remember successive years of such "savings" back in the 1990s when I was a civil servant. But at what cost to the services delivered?

The £86,000 cap on personal care fees was due to come in last October; it's now "expected" to be introduced in October 2025. I wonder ...

BeKind28- profile image
BeKind28-

Hello :-)

I was going to ask if you had a nice Christmas and a Happy New Year but reading your post I can just feel your frustration and pain and in your position I would imagine most would feel the same

I will keep hoping things improve for you because the suffering you do not deserve

I hope in the future we will see posts from you where positive things have finally started to happen and 2024 does end up been a good year for you :-) x

marypw profile image
marypw

I suspect your post may well be deleted for being too political, but you are correct. And if doctors don’t get paid more the NHS will be in even more of a mess.

I really hope things get better for you this year Michael and that you can get the optimum prosthesis, regardless of cost.

Survivor1952 profile image
Survivor1952

NI does NOT solely fund the NHS or pensions, it is used for other benefits such as Social Security payments. In fact only part of the NI contribution goes to the NHS. Any surplus has, for many tens of years, been available to fund other government expenditure. And the 'loss' to government is more than made up for by Fiscal Drag created by freezing tax allowances which means everyone pays more income tax.

The NHS is not cash starved either, they get around 11.5% of GDP. In Germany it is around 12.5% and 10% in Australia. We actually spend nearly 3 times as much on the NHS as Australia does on its health service but only 2/3rds of German spend. In both countries health insurance is necessary or compulsory as there are charges for GP appointments in one and for hospital treatment in the other. So the comparison is NOT like for like as our service is completely free.

As for pensions we spend 7% of GDP against 10% in Germany. And the gap in terms of size of pension is about the same. As for Australia their state pension is around £13,000 a year, ours is £11,000 so not greatly different. Germany is much higher at £16,000 a year as the spend would suggest.

Russelljack profile image
Russelljack in reply toSurvivor1952

Boring

Survivor1952 profile image
Survivor1952 in reply toRusselljack

Facts often are but shouldn’t be ignored or manipulated

Russelljack profile image
Russelljack in reply toSurvivor1952

Still boring 👍

Survivor1952 profile image
Survivor1952 in reply toRusselljack

Scroll past then, you don’t have to read it or learn things …

Russelljack profile image
Russelljack in reply toSurvivor1952

😂😂👍

Cee-Cee1 profile image
Cee-Cee1 in reply toSurvivor1952

I found your reply both very interesting and informative, Survivor. Thank you.

ChoochSiesta profile image
ChoochSiesta in reply toRusselljack

I found it quite interesting.

in reply toSurvivor1952

I can't quote figures like you, but how do the numbers of people employed in the UK Civil Service compare to that of Australia or Germany? Population numbers are also very different. We have far more here, higher employer contributions to pensions, far more taxation in so many areas-one in particular infuriates me and that is the TAX on insurance premiums! It varies between 12% and 20% depending on category- for example, travel insurance I believe carries a 20% premium, and car insurance 12% -this is on top of ready taxed income!!

Survivor1952 profile image
Survivor1952 in reply to

Good question:

UK - 530,000 (0.8% of population)

Germany - 1,700,000 (2%)

Australia - 200,000 approx (0.8%)

And population figures

UK - 67,330,000

Germany - 83,200,000

Australia - 25,690,000

So we actually have far, far fewer civil service employees than Germany as a percentage of population and the same as Australia! I'm quite surprised by that to say the least.

As for tax how about the VAT on top of tax on petrol? That annoys me. You are also correct on IPT rates.

The other things to consider are cost of living (UK is the cheapest of the three countries with Australia being the dearest at 1.5 times as costly) and population density. That actually means Australian pensioners are far worse off than we are with Germany being better off than us.

in reply toSurvivor1952

Australians, however, have a much better work/life balance, with more public holidays and being able to amass holidays, they can then take 1-3 months off if they want! I have always thought that we in the UK are far better off-not financially, but other things, than many other places, but in this last few years I have become so disillusioned as a result of various legislation, the non-listening powers that be, the frustration and hindering of aspirations that underpins much of what people try to do to improve their lives etc.

dogtrainer1971 profile image
dogtrainer1971 in reply toSurvivor1952

Why only compare to Germany and Australia?

Kev3D profile image
Kev3D in reply toSurvivor1952

the NHS is wholly corrupt in it purchasing - having worked in Logistics and witnessed the obscene extortionate prices the NHS pays for even the most basic of items, it becomes obvious that the system is not fit for purpose

Seal59 profile image
Seal59

Sorry to hear things aren’t going well for you. I hope you get a different prosthesis which is more comfortable for you.

Catwifie profile image
Catwifie

They want to run down the NHS so they can privatise it...been at it for years.

ChoochSiesta profile image
ChoochSiesta in reply toCatwifie

If I wanted to run down something, would I spend £168 billion on it?

devonian186 profile image
devonian186 in reply toChoochSiesta

We are very much in the middle of the pack as regards NHS expenditure, fractionally below Japan, a bit above Iceland and well above Spain and Italy..

I suggest it is more the way it is spent and this lumbering organisation is managed that is the problem, combined with our failure to attempt to keep healthy as witnessed by the number of takeaways and those over frequenting them

Buddy00 profile image
Buddy00

Although I’m one of the 7 million waiting for an operation, I cannot agree when you say the NHS is cash starved. The money is wasted on diversity managers and poor management. Procurement of supplies needs a massive shake up as they pay inflated prices for everything.

Partner20 profile image
Partner20 in reply toBuddy00

👍

Kev3D profile image
Kev3D in reply toBuddy00

Very well said about the Diversity Managers - each paid in excess of £60K

Yogi1950s profile image
Yogi1950s

The NHS isn't cash strapped! They are the biggest wasters of money after the government itself. We're the NHS efficient then I wouldn't be surprised to see NI fall even more. Don't blame the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the NHS woes, they are 100% self inflicted.

Stuartc100 profile image
Stuartc100 in reply toYogi1950s

Exactly my words!

Partner20 profile image
Partner20 in reply toYogi1950s

👍

trafar profile image
trafar

So before these posts get deleted. He has got the sort of face you woukd just like to slap hasnt he? They announced yesterday that there would be no spring election, well I wonder why? it’s because they have now realised that they are so far down in the polls that they have to pull something out of the bag in order to stand any hope of winning, yesterdays announcement will be part of it, my guess is the next few months will be full of biased reporting on how great they are.

Do they not realise that most of us would be prepared to pay the same or a bit more if we knew it would help our ailing services. I don’t necessarily think that throwing a load more money at the NHS will transform it I think it goes much deeper than that, we over the last 30 years have lost all of those support services which now means hospitals take the strain. We are an ageing population and now need those convalescence type places that all got shut down, ask anyone working in a hospital and they will tell you that hospitals are full of people who don’t need to be there but have nowhere else to go. We have more people living with mental health and the care in the community and the closing down all those mental health hospitals is no longer the right strategy they needed to be modernised yes but not shut down. Staff and doctors are leaving the NHS in droves and we can’t even pay our junior doctors a decent wage.

Anyway I will climb down from my soap box now. We should all be protesting and standing up for what we believe is right nit leaving it to the juniors docs/nurses to come out on strike we should be supporting them and telling the government that we have had enough.

it’s precisely because the majority want to; pay less, earn more for doing the same work, don’t want to work and yet happily claim benefits etc etc

The nhs has been in a m as for a long time, definitely since the prime Minister with aims of being the President/King started fiddling with it and if truth be known possibly long before that. Hurling money at it won’t solve it just like paying people more money won’t solve it we will just be left with an evermore costly service that still can’t cope.

The Governmemt is most probably going to change but I very much doubt the next politicians will do much better for the huge corporation that is the nhs of the people who struggle to pay for it.

mornhill profile image
mornhill

Michael, pensions and health provision in Germany and Austria are certainly better than ours but you are not comparing like for like. In those countries the taxes paid are much much higher than ours.

Bluehope81 profile image
Bluehope81

In societies were they have no free health service , people tend to look after themselves better, when I was in China people were careful not to get fat or drink too much as they didn't want the associated health costs. I think asking the patient to pay 10-20% for the costs of their treatment is fair. Many people around the world would think that this is a fantastic situation. This could be available as an insurance plan, similar to France and Germany. I think asking people to pay a small amount will encourage people to take ownership over their health. That would be an additional 33.6 billion for the NHS which I think would be enough to make it a fantastic service.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply toBluehope81

What about the USA?The obesity problem amongst Americans is very high.

What about those of us with long term chronic conditions?

Many people even when they take responsibility for their health still become unwell and need medical care.

Perhaps better to increase the tax on cigarettes, sugar and alcohol, further, rather than ' tax' the unwell ?

Bluehope81 profile image
Bluehope81 in reply toMilkfairy

Do the same as in France and Germany and provide a safetynet.

We don't live in an ideal world, and there isn't endless free money to pay for services, as medicine evolves and more procedures are developed medical care gets more and more expensive, so we can have it completely free and the waiting lists and service will get worse and worse, and people will die waiting for operations or we can take action.

The tax on cigarettes is decreasing as few people smoke these days, there is already a tax on sugar, and there already high taxes and duties on alcohol.

I am not proposing a US system, I am proposing a free emergency system and 10% contribution on elective surgery, via insurance.

Yes, I would love for it to all be free to everyone all the time, but it is simply not working.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply toBluehope81

The NHS isn't free, we pay National Insurance.

The Class 1 National insurance contributions have been reduced by 2%, from 12% to 10%, today by the Chancellor, Jeremy Hunt.

Some people may not be able to afford a 10% levy on their 'elective' hip replacement surgery to relieve their pain due to arthritis.

The relief of chronic pain is important too. A person's quality life counts.

beardy_chris profile image
beardy_chris in reply toMilkfairy

The link between National Insurance and the NHS was broken a long time ago. The money just goes towards Government spending.

The NHS is funded out of the same pot that funds all other spending - such as wasting money on PPE, Test and Trace, subsidising MPs' meals, and paying their families and mates.

Bluehope81 profile image
Bluehope81 in reply toMilkfairy

A person's quality of life counts, thats why I want the system to be much better for everyone, by continuing to make it free for everything you are perpetuating the misery of endless waiting times and people dying waiting for operations, ambulances not turning up for hours, not being able to see a GP.

This is all going to come to ahead soon anyway like the 1970-1974 the Tories have overspent and the public debt ratio is 100% + of GDP, most of that in Bonds and Gilts as opposed to personal debt.

If Labour continue to spend at the same rate it is exactly the same as in 1976 Callaghan, the country went broke, and as part of the rescue package from the IMF was based upon cutting back the NHS and cutting back on NHS Staff. It looks like now history will repeat itself and then the NHS will have to be cut back drastically again, because no Tory or Labour politician would say we need to cut back public services, it is easier to go bankrupt and say oh well the IMF told us we had to do this, rather than to tell the truth about what is most likely going to happen as it would be so unpopular.

Unless we take action and make it better for everyone, in France and Germany they have no waiting lists, A+E visits you are seen within an hour or two, Ambulances turn up promptly when you need them.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply toBluehope81

I agree the NHS needs reforming. Sadly it has become a political football.

However I will agreeably disagree with your proposal of how the NHS should be reformed.

Bluehope81 profile image
Bluehope81 in reply toMilkfairy

How would you reform the NHS?

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply toBluehope81

Maybe that is a discussion for elsewhere rather than here on a heart forum?

Bluehope81 profile image
Bluehope81 in reply toMilkfairy

So you were contrarian and combative all day to my posts, and when I ask you to explain your idea, suddenly its a discussion for elsewhere.

Grassmower profile image
Grassmower in reply toBluehope81

The epidemiolgy suggests inequality, ie the difference between rich and poor, has the biggest effect on health and social problems such as obesity, alcholism and drug use, not the cost of healthcare. See The Equality Trust and the book The Spirit Level for details.

Milkfairy profile image
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply toGrassmower

The Marmot Review makes interesting reading too.

I heard him speak at a BHF alumni talk last year.

bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/our-r...

'It showed the need to address differences in the social determinants of health (the conditions in which people are born, grow, live, work and age, which can lead to health inequalities)'

health.org.uk/publications/...

Bluehope81 profile image
Bluehope81 in reply toGrassmower

In rural Asia, and rural Africa the poorest people have some of the longest life spans, they survive on less than 2000 calories a day, small amounts of meat, fresh veg and fruit, no fast food, they can't afford alcohol or drugs. As long as there are no natural disasters/famine etc.

T Campbell did the biggest study ever into dietary eating habits across millions of people you can read more:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C...

Ironfloor173 profile image
Ironfloor173

To be honest I only want to read about heart matters on here. I can listen to politics elsewhere.

ChoochSiesta profile image
ChoochSiesta in reply toIronfloor173

Then scroll.

Ironfloor173 profile image
Ironfloor173 in reply toChoochSiesta

I have to read it first though to see what it is. This site is a BHF site not and not for political comments

Astronomyrules profile image
Astronomyrules

Sorry to hear things are not going well. You have been a help to so many and your posts are often uplifting. I don't know much about it, but maybe crowd funding could get you the prosthetic you need? I hope 2024 turns out to be a better year as it proceeds.

isobelhannah18 profile image
isobelhannah18

Well said!

I hope you get the prosthetic you need.

MummaSoap profile image
MummaSoap

I’m so sorry to hear what you’re currently going through Michael; it’s completely understandable why you’re feeling so down!

On the NHS subject, I think there’s an amalgamation of issues but as seems to be the case with the government (regardless of who is in power), no one is held accountable. If people in those positions of power were held properly and appropriately accountable then perhaps this would enable the required shift that would see real change happen. If these trust executives or government officials were to suffer personal financial penalties for mismanagement of budgets, I’m sure we would find ourselves in a much more efficient, budget savvy economy.

Unfortunately, I fear this will never become a reality and I really worry about what the future will look like.

Heather1957 profile image
Heather1957

Personally I don't think this is the place for political statements!I don't feel I should be told to 'move on' but hope the post is removed.

Russelljack profile image
Russelljack in reply toHeather1957

Totally agree with you 👍

MichaelJH profile image
MichaelJHHeart Star

Good afternoon!

I seem to have created somewhat of a Marmite thread. The intention was not to be political But fail to understand why NI is being cut less than two years after it was increased! I have over 40 years of NI contributions but feel my overall health and wellbeing is being affected by budgets. In the short term the NHS needs more funding but alongside this it needs greater efficiency - the main area to start with IMHO is the multiple layers of middle management. I have had countless issues with clashing appointments (in the same Health Trust), failure to be given a follow up appointment and most recently a DNA (Did Not Attend) letter when I had rebooked but admin staff failed to cancel the original appointment!

Not what you're looking for?

You may also like...

Money for old rope

End of last year I had an echo, Feb on advice of my GP I wrote to my NHS specialist asking for more...
ronnyharry profile image

Donations to NHS

I have just listened to a news report on Money being Donated to the NHS, I have donated every month...
Prada47 profile image

Replacement of internal cardiac defibrillator

Just had this done. It was really painful. Insist on a full anaesthetic not just a local. The NHS...
Callista profile image

Beginning To Despair.....

Just an update on my problems with low heart rate etc........ My long quest to try to discover why...
Channeal profile image

CT-Angiogram tomorrow

I had my follow up with the cardiologist yesterday. He’d reviewed the echo which did show slightly...
Steambunny profile image

Moderation team

See all
HUModerator profile image
HUModeratorAdministrator
Luke_BHF profile image
Luke_BHFPartner
Amy-BHF profile image
Amy-BHFPartner

Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.

Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.