My Dad had a heart attack back in April. He refused a triple heart bypass and was sent home with medication.He has had no follow up about his heart but is struggling to manage. He is slow, shaky, weak and unstable. He is breathy after minor exertion, generally has cold hands and feet and is a little grey, has little appetite (not like him at all), is only managing a few hours sleep, and is alone and depressed.
Things are complicated by type 2 Diabetes, peripheral neuropathy and osteomyelitis, though the bone and skin infection has come under control in the last few weeks after antibiotics. He has a distrust of doctors and a reluctance to seek help and is exhausted and often wants to just give up. He will not change diet and gets little exercise. At the same time he is quite needy.
I am just hoping someone might be able to give me an idea if anyone has had or seen similar circumstances. I am particularly concerned about whether his symptoms are likely affected by his heart and what I should do to get more of an idea as to what support he could/should get for his heart - if he would indeed access the support! I would just like to know that I am at least aware of what support he could or may need.
I am so sorry to hear about your Dad and the struggles that are telling on you trying to support him it must be taking it out of you to
Reading your post it could be a lot of things contributing to how bad your Dad is feeling but the thing that really flew as I read your post is they offered him a triple Bypass and he refused it they do not offer them for nothing and even though medications can play a big part when they say a Bypass is needed in my opinion it really is
I am not sure how big your extended family is but I think it is time to let your Dad know if he does not take the offer of the Bypasses and if he does not change his eating habits and moving around more this is not going to be a positive ending or pleasant for him
He may reply he is not bothered but I think it is time for what we call Tough Love and let him know what effect it is having on you and how it would affect you if he was not about and that you will be with him all the way but he needs the support now and you need him to reach out and ask
Other than medications I do not think there is anything else they can offer other than the Bypass operation which if he had would hopefully have would give him a new lease of life where he would feel so much better than he does now
Could you go to the Doctors with him or ask him to give you permission to talk with his Consultant ?
Would he speak to the Rehab Nurses that work for the BHF over the phone ?
You could even speak to them for advice I will put you their number on here for you
I do hope others will come a long and give you some advice and let us know how you get on x
Heart Helpline team on 0300 330 3311 Mon-Fri 9-5pm
Hi and thank you so much for your kind and quick response.The helpline number is definitely very helpful and I will probably use it quite soon.
We did a lot to persuade my Dad to have the surgery and support him afterwards, and they kept the option open to him, but he cancelled follow up appointments and now has no heart related input and won't go to the GP. They said he would have another heart incident within six months, which we are nearing. I think he knows what the likely outcome is, but is no doubt a bit frightened too.
My Dad was diagnosed with diabetes many years ago and refused to believe he had it and didn't change his diet of lifestyle, which gives an indication of his attitude. He was not in good health or happy before the heart attack and doesn't have a positive sense of getting back to how he was before.
It has been helpful reaching out. I am not sure if he is fading before my eyes and I should act, or whether he has some time left in him yet, but knowing there are other avenues for advice and support is great. He can mostly care for himself in the house, though very wobbly, which I think is a good sign for now and something he should keep up. Doctors and podiatrists have been seeing him about his feet do no seem overly concerned at the moment.
I hope your issues that brought you here are under control.
I have just one last thought but not sure if he would do this and that is have some counselling as there has to be a reason why he choosing the obvious if he does not do something
I am wondering if his depression is having some kind of impact
If he would agree to the open I know his Doctor would refer him back and they would see him and still operate but I know only your Dad can make this move
Maybe you could tell him about all us on here and how well we are doing
You can even tell him some like me suffer with anxiety as well as depression and yet we got through it with support
I had to have a triple Bypass and I was petrified but if I can do it I know anyone can
Wishing you all the best and if there is any progress it would be lovely if you let us all know x
Hi GdaPop, I cannot add a lot to the great advice that BeKind has given. I will say that as a type 1 diabetic for many years, the heart has a big impact on diabetes and neuropathy. I am very sorry to hear of your dads reluctance though you don’t say why. Naturally it is his decision, heart bypasses although major enables a real opportunity for a positive outcome for our health. For the surgeons these are considered routine. They are the experts and can provide a tremendous help to those of us that need it. I had a quadruple bypass two years ago and I am grateful for every day. I do so hope you get the support and help that your dad needs. My own father passed many years ago, he had leukaemia and was incredibly stubborn about treatment and a real phobia about hospitals. Take good care of yourself this must be having a huge impact on you. Judi
Hello Judi and thank you for your reply.
I am so glad to hear about your surgery and that it has been a success and that you greatly value your time.
Thank you too for the information about diabetes. It is hard to know at the moment what is causing my Dad's symptoms. After refusing bypass surgery he severed contact with heart services and there doesn't seem to be a joined up approach between the diabetic and heart people, though I am imagined there is a connection.
It is interesting too that you speak of your father being reluctant to access care. Thank you for sharing what must be difficult information.
My Dad was diagnosed with diabetes many years ago and refused to believe he had it and didn't change his diet of lifestyle, which gives an indication of his attitude. He was not in good health or happy before the heart attack either, and doesn't have a positive sense of getting back to how he was before. This and a fear of being opened up (he's an ex policeman with experience of post mortems and other unpleasant incidents) are what motivated him to refuse surgery. He was given some mental health support in hospital and they agreed he wasn't in the right place for major surgery. I just wish he hadn't written off their support so quickly.
It has been helpful reaching out and knowing there is another avenue if advice and support.
My Dad can currently mostly care for himself in the house, though very wobbly, which I think is a good sign for now and something he should keep up. Doctors and podiatrists have been seeing him about his feet do no seem overly concerned at the moment.
I will obviously just keep a very close eye on him.
Thank you again for sharing you advice and experience.
Frankly I found it difficult to believe the thinking behind your dads refusal. I went into hospital to the assessment unit and was told I needed a quad by pass. I asked if there were any alternatives and was told there were but they were all very foolish.
In other words when you need this level of surgery a few pills and avoiding eating Chocolate and cheese isn't going to help. The surgeon strongly suggested I remain an in patient as once an out patient you joined the long queue and it was out of sight out of mind.
Obviously diabetes confuses matters but bypass surgery is routine these days and your father wouldn't have been offered it if they were sure of success.
I do not know his age or weight, perhaps his diabetes is partly caused by his current eating and exercose habits. Frankly if he wants to continue to be your dad he needs to have this operation as soon as possible
Is stenting an option? It’s now very advanced and a minimally invasive procedure. There are also minimally invasive procedures for valve work. A medication regime is a third option. Can you go private? I would try and get a second opinion and and get family members to intervene to persuade your father to attend a consultation.
I agree with SmokeAKipper. Talking to someone that has had a bypass might provide a way forwards. A friend of mine was put in touch with someone that had been through an op before he had his and he found it most beneficial to speak to someone that had first hand experience. After he had his op, he met with someone that was in line to have the op and was able to pass on his experience. The contacts made remain as a form of support network.
After my heart attack and stents I was offered a bypass and referred for surgery. Even though I was quite fit and could have gone on to have further stents, the recommendation was to have a bypass as it provided the best for me in the long term. My surgeon suggested I probably would not need further intervention for 25 years and knowing a friend had had his bypass almost 40 years ago and was fit and well, it was a no-brainer... I elected to have the bypass.
I sincerely hope that a solution can be found to your father's situation. It cannot be easy for the family as it currently stands. Basically something will have to give at some point.
This must be so difficult for you. And I can only suppose what I would do in your position.
Your dad is making his choices and has every right to do so. I think I would really want to make sure that he understands the consequences of the choices he’s making. I would have to have the difficult conversations with him about those consequences to be certain he understands them. I’d want to tell him how much I loved him and want him around as long as possible but that I’d support him and be there whatever. I’d offer him counselling if that would help. But ultimately it’s his choice. Watching is often one of the hardest things to do. I wish you both so much luck. X
Good Morning and huge sympathy to you. Dealing with our aged, infirm and often intransigent parents is not easy, to put it mildly.
One thing you didn’t mention is how old your father is. I presume not so very old or the Drs would not have suggested the operation. In which case, there could be worthwhile years of improved quality of life if he could get over the mental hurdle.
BeKind has given you a great reply and the number for the BHF nurses. They might be able to advise you about finding help for depression and the sort of fateful behaviour your father is displaying .
Very tricky for you to be in this position and well done for trying so hard on behalf of your father. Look after yourself and don’t let it bring you down too. You can only keep , and are already , doing your best to help him.
Nor indeed did your parents find it easy when rearing you I am sure to put it mildly, also I have seen lots of people in their 80s having successful bypass operations, giving them a better quality of life. The problem seems to be his extreme fear of this operation which needs to be overcome somehow? much like a childs fear of dentists or injections although they are much more easily manipulated into accepting these. He may not be depressed and just may be plain scared so the proper counselling could help. Not only older people are intransigent but an agreement needs to be found here. What goes round comes round. Well done on all your effeorts to help your father and I am sure you will succeed.
Of course you are right that having and rearing children isn’t easy and I’m sure I was a horror.
However, the difference is as a parent one gets to make decisions in the child’s best interests. As a child of an older person who is making their own decisions, it can be hard not to feel that those decisions may be made based on fear of unknown/worry and may well not be actually, as the child sees it, in the best interests of the parent.
It’s so hard for the poster to stand by and see the father not wanting to take the opportunity to get better, meanwhile it appears he is needing and wanting progressively more assistance for which the poster may not have sufficient time , financial or emotional bandwidth.
My reference to age was obviously badly phrased, I was worried maybe he thought that the operation was not worth going through if he anticipated that he wouldn’t have many multiples of the recovery time after to payoff the undoubtedly big commitment /make the ‘aggro’ worthwhile. I suspect his mental situation and fear of hospitalisation is a bigger factor here than his inner time /effort calculations .( But I would risk making a sweeping generalisation and suggest it is more likely that the younger one is the more one is possibly prepared to go through for better subsequent quality of life)
Not wanting to be argumentive or prolong this converstion but every adult who is of sound mind is responsible for his own decisions. I have a son for example who is 50yrs old and was diagnosed with high cholesterol but rarely takes his statins despite a long family history of heart disease. I have told him what he should be doing but he just does his own thing as is his right. I know he classes himself as young and for some reason revolts against medications. I agree with your above comment and I feel he is terrified of having open heart surgery and that is what really needs to be addressed by him somehow. With any luck he can get past this hurdle but until then it is up to him.
I think I’m agreeing with you rather than arguing, or maybe I’ve misread you.
The only point I think we are slightly at variance about is whether one should feel any responsibility for other adults even if they are making what seems a bad call.
If someone wants much time& help and needs a lot of extra attention due to their health issues but refuses to accept medical help for themselves which would lessen the burden, what can or should one do??
Hi, what a rotten situation to be in. I didn't see you mention you're dad's age, my mum was 81 when she needed major abdominal surgery which one surgeon refused to do because of the risk she wouldn't make it. It was a slow recovery, but she made it.I understand the mistrust and that does make it much harder.
Maybe you can ask him how he sees the future without surgery; how long he can continue to do the things important to him, such as maintain his independence. Is he a police pensioner and if so do they have a welfare department?
Does he believe what he's being told? Could you afford for him to see someone privately for a second opinion? Hearing it from another doctor, possibly one he can get a better rapport with, might help.
Sorry, you're in a tough spot. Please keep us updated. Good luck.
Good morning GadaPop , understand where your dad is coming from ! Had my 3rd HA in April as well , and they said I needed triple bypass , like your dad I’ve got complications, COPD , thype 1 diabetes and Claudication, at first I was in denial and wanted to say no (scared of the unknown) but when I met my consultant he really put me at ease , had bypass 9 weeks ago , it’s not a walk in the park but is definitely worth it !
I really do hope you and family can talk to him and just get him to meet with consultant who will go through everything with him , good luck and take care
Hello and Good morning. Bekind28. Gave a very detailed and excellent response to your Dad's problems and there's not much more to add. Except to say you need to have a chat with him and let him know how worried about him that you are and how much you love him and would miss him if anything happened. If you haven't already done so .And I hope it will make him think again. The longer he leaves it. The more risk there will be to the operation and his recovery. He Obviously has a deep fear of something that he needs to try and get over.Hope you are coping OK with all the worry you have as well. Brian
Hello Hidden I am sorry to hear about your dad this must be a very stressful situation for you. I do hope you are able to persuade him to change his mind, I have no advise other than what BeKind has already said which I agree with. I received support from BeKind and others on here before and since my bypass which was really helpful. To be honest I was terrified and like your dad did not want the surgery but nearly 10 months on I feel so much better, the surgeons and their team are amazing as are all the staff that take care of you afterwards, the cardiac rehab team are also wonderful. It’s a long road to recovery and involves life changes but it’s worth it. Good luck with your dad I sincerely hope he reconsiders and is able to look at the bigger picture and also consider his family. Take care 😊Xx.
I had an aortic valve replacement and three coronary artery bypass grafts 9 years ago. I was 76 years old at the time. Open heart surgery.
I can understand your Dads attitude I had similar thoughts but went ahead and the surgery was successful and worth it. My advice to him would be accept the surgeons advice and offer, let them proceed and relax and be fatalistic. Best wishes
He's scared; scared of what may happen and scared of being alone, scared of a big operation. Can you talk to his GP and ask him to explain things to your dad ?
Our uncle had a triple bypass and is marvellous now is a wonderful operation they do itca lot nowadays would give him a much better life. Of course there are always risks but definitely worth it
I'm sorry to hear about your dad and agree with the other posters. You sound very supportive of your dad but I wondered if you had any support? It's important that you look after yourself physically and emotionally. I've found this forum a really good source of advice and support even if all you want to do pour it all out!
HiI've been told I need the same but I'm not convinced I'm ready for that level of intervention. I've severe CAD and had at least two strokes .
I am also on meds and have reduced carbs etc to keep my weight etc down.
However I now follow Dr Barbara O Neill online who advocates many natural treatments etc.
I am a former Nurse myself and knew my carotid arteries were blocked and the pain in my neck was most uncomfortable. Since taking half a teaspoon of cayenne pepper in water each morning... it has gone!
My GP agrees it is a good protocol as it is a natural vaso dilator and I am delighted. Please ask your Dad to look her up online and give it a try in addition to his meds..Lidl has it for a £1..lol..
I'm sorry about your dad. The heart attack, seems to have left him with long-term heart weakness . We don't know for sure, what to put the peripheral neuropathy down to, - I suppose he has already had that looked into, - perhaps.whether he has any form of ('pernicious') anaemia with that.
Does he take his medications, with his distrust of doctors? - and it would help to know what they are. I think you could get him financial support as he is substantially disabled, with meals on wheels perhaps, and Social Services might like to be aware of him. I suppose moving him to live with one of his children, wouldn't work?
Did he ever serve in the Armed Forces, would SSAFA help (Soldiers Sailors and Airmen Forces Association).? Was he ever a Freemason, even if not you could approach the current Master of your local Freemasons' lodge for help?
You could ask his GP to arrange what is called a "Domiciliary Visit" from an NHS hospital consultant (free of charge to you, but the Consultant gets a big fee), - that would be a Geratrician usually. Your GP needs to ask for a DV from the hospital geriatrician. One assessment the geriatrician might do, is whether your dad is clinically depressed.
It seems to me that he needs people, to help him get to enjoy living again, we don't want him turning his face to the wall.
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