Hello everyone, I will probably get a notice for using the N word even though it's a genuine question.
Has anyone explored using natural beta blockers and do you know or have proof it has helped?
Basically all beta blockers do for anyone with heart disease is slow down the heart, I know it has been prescribed to people who are nervous going on stage and as a stress reliever but it is mostly used for heart conditions.
They say bananas and dates are natural beta blockers. Has anyone seen results from that?
Here are some articles I have read, bananas seem to be the common one.
I've never heard about bananas and dates being beta blockers, who are 'they' who say they are? would be interesting to find out if this is true as I eat both of these fruits daily, but still take 1.25mg of the beta blocker Bisoprolol twice each day.
I think doctors only start getting concerned if the heart rate goes down to the low 40's. Do you feel ok at that rate! I think I'd want to reduce my Bisoprolol dose a little.
I get tired by the early evening and sometimes drop off watching tv! I'm 78 and am on Letrozole as I had a very early breast cancer in '21, and Edoxaban, 60mg Lisinopril 20mg. B12 shot every 3 months I'm desperate to lose weight as I am convinced that's part and parcel of my lack of energy. I run a B&B so although I don't run marathons etc, I am not a lazy so and so!
A balance of both can be a great middle ground can't it? I am not opposed to that.
Of course it can and you are right to look for other options, before big pharma people used all sorts of plants etc to heal. In the last 2 yrs I have came off all heart meds and never felt better. I can do things I couldn't whilst on meds.
wow Tony you’ve done exactly what I keep saying I’m going to do. Since being on all these meds since heart attack I’ve always got something wrong your put on one med then have to have something else to counter act the side effects of another. Have you looked up Barbara o Neil she’s amazing. She actually says before the big pharma people came along, herbs were put on earth for a reason. She talks about all heart related things plus many more and the herbs that help heal
I would love to come off my Heart meds too, but I am on Clopidogrel anticoagulant and would be scared of having a blood clot if I came off it. I don't know of any natural blood thinners
Sorry Anne, who called you names? No one posted or deleted anything as far as I know. I did not get any notifications from my side.
Thanks Anne, I was getting very confused. Thanks for clarifying. Your comments and your opinions are always welcome, I would never insult anyone on here in the first place.
Be aware that both bananas & dates are very high in potassium. High potassium can cause arrythimias, beta blockers are prescribed to help control arrythimias, so it does seem a bit of a contradiction.
Yes Lezzers, you are absolutely right but as Anne mentioned BB do other things too. I have been on BB for 18 years, low dose and it never really stoped my arrhythmias, I hardly feel them but they show up on my bi annual holter tests and they're not dangerous. I once read on here but not sure by who that they only have half a banana a day and I think it is for that reason. As anything in life, everything in moderation. I wouldn't eat a banana every day, ill be sick of it! But I would have half a banana with my hot oats in the morning for example. That seems reasonable. As also mentioned to Brave Heart, I think a mixture between these healthy foods and some medication is a good balance. So not ALL just medicine with a bad diet and not just a super healthy diet but maybe its a mixture of both. Again the word, moderation.
I totally agree with the heart healthy food but I would think as a natural substitute or even alongside beta blockers you would have to eat a lot of them to be effective which could definitely have an impact on your potassium levels. Absolutely heart healthy food & meds should go hand in hand but for some people the heart healthy food could actually be bad for you in some instances. As an example, my husband often has high potassium, he has to watch what he eats, so the whole plant food diet that people are always pushing would be dangerous for him as it's high in potassium, as are lots of veg, dates & bananas as already mentioned, potatoes etc. In addition to high potassium my husband also has VT's that recently resulted in loss of consciousness several times & are unfortunately proving difficult to control. So I guess what I'm saying is one size does not fit all so be aware that even in 'moderation' wouldn't be good for all. The best people to discuss diet & meds etc would be with your medical team.
You nailed it on the head, one size definitely does not fit all. Again I am not recommending anything, I wanted to ask if anyone has had any long term experience with natural beta blockers but there isn't really a way to tell, no one has really tested it and BB have been tested since the mid 60s. At the end of the day everyone needs to listen to their own bodies and take professional advice to help them guide through it.
Low potassium always caused me to go into a.f. So l always eat plenty of potassium rich foods. Actually, tomatoes contain more potassium than bananas. Can't beat a banana sandwich though or bananas on toast.😋
I love a banana sandwich 😋, never had it on toast though, must try that & yes tomatoes are also very high in potassium as is potatoes. As is all the heart healthy food, leafy green veg etc & even the way you cook some foods can alter the potassium level. Due to potassium issues my husband hadn't eaten Bananas since 2008, he had a short window of opportunity last year when his potassium was lower than it had ever been. I think he only managed about 2 bananas before it all started going wrong again. Potassium is a strange business, my husband has been very poorly this year and this has actually caused low magnesium & potassium, so in the hospital he's had to have the magnesium via IV and a disgusting drink to increase his potassium.
You must try bananas on toast with butter , even better than sandwiches. I had that potassium drink in hospital and was sent home with some more. I didn't find it nasty. I love vegetables so l am taking in enough potassium. It is the diuretic l am taking that is messing up my electrolytes. The trouble is you need regular blood tests to find out what your levels of electrolytes are. I used to have a blood test once a month before covid; now it is once a year.
Dr Bergs electrolyte powder 1 scoop am ( 1/2 suggested daily dose) and 2 x 200 magnesium in the evening to help with sleep. Altho these together including a diet fairly high in potassium does help improve the arrhythmias, the 2 magnesium do not substantially improve my sleep as they are supposed to, but you can't have everything!!
400 magnesium is high. I was taking 300 as stated on the bottle. My g.p. told me not to take it as it is bad for the kidneys. I have cut it down to 100 and l eat seeds and nuts every day which are rich in magnesium. How do you gauge the potassium you take in the electrolyte as too much potassium is as bad for you as too little. Thank you for your reply. The magnesium didn't help my sleep or my fatigue either.
By way of background, I have a degree and doctorate in the science of drugs (pharmacology) and spent 35 years working in the pharmaceutical and biotech industries. The “natural” beta blockers you refer to are simply foods that may replicate some of the effects of beta blockers. If they work at all, they do this through a physiological mechanism other than by blocking the action of adrenaline and noradrenaline at the beta receptor. They are not beta blockers. Unlike medicinal beta blockers they are not pharmacological antagonists at the various beta receptor subtypes and have no specificity for beta-1 (found in heart muscle), beta-2 or beta-3 receptors. Drugs such as bisoprolol, which so many of us take, are cardioselective beta blockers, in other words they specifically block the beta-1 receptors in heart muscle but not other subtypes of beta receptors. Bisoprolol has a two-fold effect on the heart, it reduces the force of its contractions and it slows the rate at which it beats. In other words, it reduces the capacity of the heart to work. By reducing its capacity to work, it also reduces the oxygen demand of the heart and this why its used in the treatment of angina. None of the food stuffs mentioned, although healthy and contributing to a balanced diet, will work in this way
Any medicine approved by the MHRA (UK regulator) or European Medicines Agency will also have an accompanying and approved document called a summary of product characteristics (abbreviated to SmPC) which briefly details all the information about the drug, how it works, doses, route of administration, approved indication etc, plus evidence for effectiveness and any associated risks and adverse reactions (the technical term for a side effect that is positively related to treatment). This document is regularly updated as new information, particularly as more safety data, becomes available. This is where I would start to look for information on any drugs safety.
Good morning Steve_G thanks for clarifying. Last week my son (16) consultant advised she wants to start him on medication. Losartan 25mg to begin then up to 50mg. She also wants to start beta blockers but is waiting for checkup from respiratory clinic before deciding which type. I was shocked at first to find out he now needs medication as previous consultant said he would not need any intervention until much later possibly late 20's or 30's He has HCM and aortic root dilation.
Sorry to interrupt but please please get a second opinion.
16 is too young to be on medication in my personal opinion. HCM is supposedly hereditary and when a child gets it they will tell you that they can not play competitive sports due to sudden death syndrome but I read an article recently that debunked that. Children should do sports just as long as its not too hectic if they have that condition. Don't deny them excercise as it is also beneficial for their hearts .
Hi TonyB1972I hear your concern. The growth of the aorta dilation has been fairly steady since his first diagnosis in 2021. So the consultant advised the reason for starting medication is to put less pressure on how hard his heart has to work and to slow down the growth of the dilation (hopefully).
In terms of his HCM again I guess we are lucky that my son is very energetic and enjoys his exercises (ballroom dancing).
He is currently at Great Ormond Street Hospital and his consultant is one of the best and she is trying to slow his condition down
Its always hard to know what is best but I feel this is the best way forward for him and I can only put my trust in the Dr's 💜
Thank you again I will do some more reading before we start but there is so little information on aortic root dilation in children who do not have Marfan syndrome.
Whatever decision you will make will always be the best decision. Good luck with it and I hope it works itself out whatever route is taken. All the best.
This is my experience only and I'm not saying anyone should think the way I do but, we need to weigh up the pros and cons of all treatments. I think we need to be guided by our doctors as to what is the best treatment especially where our children are concerned. Life is precious, and they are too young to make their own decisions. My son almost died from asthma more than once when he was small. Prednisone, (short term) plus other meds saved his life. My other son, who has familial hypercholesterolaemia, after lowering his levels with meds, stopped them and tried to do it the natural way. Much to his dismay, his cholesterol levels shot up above the original level, so he went back to statins and has kept it well under control ever since. Anyone who can treat themselves, successfully, with natural foods is lucky.
I do hope your son's HCM is treated successfully and he is able to continue with his ballroom dancing. (That sort of exercise I could take to. More interesting than running or walking. 😊)
🙂 you haven't met his dance teacher. She much more into Latin dances. But yes trust in his medical team is vital because he has two different heart conditions.
Athletes have larger hearts and aortic roots than the general population.
A professional cyclist for example riding/racing for 100’s of miles a week will for sure have cardiomyopathy. However, this is purely a result of the extra workload on their heart. Not a cardiac issue.
The reason is clear. The harder they make the heart work, the more it grows to manage the extra workload.
Body builders make extra muscle this way -
- Damage the muscle with lifting heavy weights
- Then food and rest and the muscle grows bigger than before
- Repeat
The heart is a muscle. I do a lot of exercise. My aortic root was measured some years ago at 4 cm (normal is about 3) and again last year at 4 again.
Where do you get the idea 16 is too young for medication. Statins and BP medication may be appropriate where there are hereditary conditions like Familial Hypercholesterolemia. Surely it is better to start medication as a youngster that to have a potentially fatal heart attack or stroke at 30. I started insulin as a child but the less than ideal asthma medication back then resulted in a fatal attack for an eight year old!
That was my thinking and I would rather have my son on meds than not have him ( worst case scenario). There are many babies and younger children who need meds for various reasons. I guess it's personal preference . I think its important to have trust in his cardiologist, which I do. It's strange but a previous question I had on here bought to my attention the need to monitor and manage his BP which I did bring up to consultant as a question before his appointment and now at his appointment the Dr raises that point stating management is key to hopefully slowing down the growth of the dilation.
I just mentioned my son's Familial Hypercholesterolaemia in a reply above and then I saw your post.. After successfully lowering his with meds, he stopped them to try natural cures. Didn't work and his chol. levels went sky high. After he went back to statins he has it under control again. My other son, now in his fifties, has had asthma since he was six months old (and before inhalers became available) Medication has prevented his lung function getting worse, especially the latest treatment his specialist prescribed.
Firstly, I cannot begin to understand how stressful this must be for you all. I spent the last 5 years of my career working in paediatric drug development and have immense admiration for parents, their children and the clinicians that care for you all. Beta receptors exist in the smooth muscle of our lungs airways. Beta agonists, which stimulate the receptors can be used to dilate the airways of asthmatics. Beta blockers could theoretically exacerbate asthma if the blocker isn’t specific for cardiac muscle which explains the consultant’s concerns. Wishing you and your son all the best.
My doctor in the early 2000s recommended a beta blocker, metoprolol, as a drug to use for “stage fright.” At that time, I was an assistant professor and traveled to many conferences and had to give presentations to large groups. Eventually, I took this drug as an extra aid in BP control and to control adrenaline.
In March 2022, I had a NSTEMI heart attack. My cardiologist, in August 2022, increased the dosage from 50 mg. daily to 75 mg.
Can you tell me about whether this is a high dosage for this medication, or other information about it and heart health? It has helped to lower my heart rate, but I am still having some issues with shortness of breath. I am scheduled to have a CT scan of my lungs next week. Thank you 😊
I’m not a medic so can’t really comment on the issue of appropriate dose for your circumstances although it would seem when looking at the SmPC that higher doses are approved up to 200mg/day. Metoprolol, like bisoprolol is a specific beta-1 blocker that works primarily on heart muscle. Good luck with your investigations
Thank you so much for the information! I really was not asking about appropriate dosages. The 75 mg daily does seem to be working to control my heart rate, and it was adjusted by the cardiologist. I just wondered about some specifics of the drug for my personal knowledge.
You seem to be knowledgeable of drugs with your educational background so I hoped to benefit from that knowledge base. I was specifically interested in whether metropolol is a specific beta-1 blocker, and you cleared that up for me. Thank you for responding! 😊
Brilliant lucid explanation.I have a question.They make me take bisoprol 1.25 and ramipril 2.5.I am 9wks post cabgx2.I have perfect low blood pressure and a good resting heart rate.They have no reason to give me these, especially with the side effects.
Is this just NICE guidelines and everyone has to take them?
I go along with statins because i admitt i'm in the at risk group, (but i'm anti) but these two i will drop when it is far enough away from my op to be safe.
Atherosclerosis is a systemic disease and CABG is simply a fix and not a cure. The practice of medicine is evidence led which means that there will be sufficient and strong enough clinical evidence that continued treatment post CABG will prevent further cardiovascular events. The post CABG drugs given will depend on various risk factors so in other words they reduce the risk of something else happening. So whilst these meds may be used to treat hypertension, they also have a prophylactic effect, preventing events that would otherwise potentially occur if they were not given. My BP is normal and I’m still taking bisoprolol 1.25mg 4.5 years post CABGx3 and will continue to do so
Also watermelons and garlic are known to lower your blood pressure naturally but again even though i still eat lots of these,I still need high doses of ramipril alongside the bisoprolol to keep my blood pressure nice n low
Very well said, Anne. Although they make me feel a little tired in the evening, I much prefer that than the constant ectopics and rapid heart rate I suffered with in the past. I do appreciate that some can't tolerate them though. Carol
How about yoga, Pilates or similar? (Obviously not hot yoga! )
Could that be a useful additional approach alongside a balanced wholesome diet, appropriate /medically recommended exercise/(gentle?) walking and obviously the prescribed traditional medication, whilst you need it.
,Bananas and dates probably have a lot of good minerals in.If you are low or magnesium and vitamin D you can get palpitations.
I know you probably know all this..My arrhythmias are secondary to my aortic valve disease.I normally try healthy life style and diet first any way.My heart is getting tired because the valve isn’t working so the bisoprol stops it from working too hard.My heart was sometimes going to slow.It was going down to 30bpm.It stays around 65bpm when I take the bisoprolol.
In all honesty you just cannot substitute fruits for medication. The concentration of micronutrients (vitamins and minerals) varies considerably depending on growth conditions and storage. Many years ago I read in either Nature or Scientific American that the amount of Vitamin C in an orange can vary by a factor of 50. So prescribing a banana with breakfast, three walnuts morning and evening, and two figs before bed is a nonsense although the extra calories might cause weight gain! A 2.5mg Bisoprolol tablet delivers what it says on the box.
Good points Michael, the problem of "delivers what it says on the box" is the side effects. The side effects are as long as my arm which is also written on the box.
Food can cause problems too.I can't drink caffeine as it triggers my coronary vasospasms.
Natural doesn't necessarily mean it's better.
The advances in medicial science, including the development of treatments and medications means we do not die too soon. We can live with our health conditions.
Perhaps what might help is an holistic approach to our health needs?
But the side effects are not compulsory though, nor is it compulsory to actually have all the side effects that are written on the box 🤔 If your beta blocker isn't working for you ask to try a different one, there's a few out there that could work for you with less side effects I do understand you're not keen on 'big pharma' but I always think those natural products, fruit, veg, herbs etc have been used for medicinal purposes for years but how just how effective were they when people died so very young it's only since the advancement of medical science that people have been able to live longer & also have a good quality of life.
Morning Anthoney; I had a book supplied with a juicer which told what fruit/veg helped deal with I'll health. Also know Porridge good for cholesterol clearence, Cranberry good for eurology. Advise you buy juicer. Good luck.
Well that’s interesting regarding bananas as I eat three small bananas a day and two apples. I only take an aspirin with porridge regarding drugs because my stomach became very sensitive after my bypass and I was taken off some drugs because they upset me. There is so much I can’t tolerate but fortunately I can tolerate healthy food like fish and chicken and some greens. I don’t know if bananas or any other food can be considered an alternative but my diet seems to keep me going .
Beta blockers nearly killed me and I am bedridden for 2 years now after open heart surgery and a cardiologist who wouldn't see me left me on them for 11 months and I couldn't tolerate them and was passing out. When I was 98lbs she instructed me to stop them immediately causing instant withdrawal. Look up bisoprolol buddies. The withdrawals caused me to be so sick and additional meds. I'm still in bed and don't trust the so called medical professionals as where I live, they don't care.
💗🙏🏼 I’m on Bisoprolol and it’s giving me bradycardia 😳 I’m soon to stop it and flecainide to another medication and hoping that doesn’t cause bradycardia
Make sure that you taper off from it as many people have withdrawals even with the smallest dose of 1.25. The Dr.s will deny this so beware. Look up bisoprolol buddies in this very forum. Please be careful as they have ruined my life. Everything that I ever enjoyed has all been taken from me. I regret getting the surgery.
I agree with you. I'm afraid I wouldn't risk my health with these unproven natural remedies. My BBs and other heart meds have got me to where I am today. Stable!
I agree they are an effective in doing the job they are supposed to. However the list of possible side effects are legion and as you say are found so, by many people.
my ectopics and missed beats are a lot more less forceful since being on them for past 2 decades. Everyday was stressful just feeling the power of every heart beat. So for me personally I don’t mind taking them. 👍
I've noticed I feel better if I eat a banana every day and an apple can't do you any harm
We are all entitled to our opinions, but I hope everyone keeps a civil tone to their comments, and not blatantly state that what someone is saying is false and flawed. My daughter is autistic, and just says what she believes, and it sometimes comes across as tactless.
I am diagnosed with arterial heart flutter. Tried a drug, but hated the side affects, so I stopped. Anyway, I had been having severe leg and foot cramps for quite awhile, so went to the Doctor, and she said start taking magnesium. I did and the cramps went away, and so did the arterial flutters. Sometimes I'll get a little spell, but usually with excitement, or a stressful situation. Magnesium is supposed to be needed for our electrical system.
Hawthorn and Berberine are useful. Depending on the reason your taking beta-blockers, there are lots of useful herbs/nutrients. People with hypertension are almost 100% magnesium deficient and for many, getting their magnesium up will resolve the situation. Calcium, magnesium, potassium, and Coq10 are extremely important for proper heart function and most people in industrialized countries are lacking in at least one. Don't depend on a serum test to determine magnesium level. By the time is shows up low in serum the tissues (where 99% of mag is housed) are already depleted and you are in grave danger.
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