👋 Hi Everyone, this will probably seem like a 1st world problem to most people on this forum, I'm sure but I wonder if anyone else has lost a little sleep 😴 over my current dilemma?
I had Bypass surgery late September 2022. This was purely precautionary following my diagnosis of a severe stenosis approximately where the LAD joins the top of the heart. Other than Angina during exercise/slight oddness in my left hand/arm I had no other symptoms. So, I count myself very lucky when compared to others on this forum and the vast majority of people who suffer from heart disease.
Getting back to my dilemma other than all the other trauma following Bypass surgery we all go through and according to my wife I'm making remarkable progress. Back on the tennis court re roofing my giant shed (no mean feat for a 72 year old😁) I suddenly developed a calf muscle strain.
A bruise/bruises appeared on the surface of my skin at the point 👉 of the injury. I've been playing racket sports for over 50years and this has never happened to me before.
Pathetic I know compared to other heart disease sufferers but I started to fret over it and found myself drinking tea at 4.30am and pouring over the Internet (not a good idea).
One article stood out to do with Atorvastatin leading to muscle weakness ligament damage etc. I've been taking 40mg of Atorvastatin since my Bypass (I believe it's standard therapy).
My dilemma is?
1) keep taking the Statin in the hope it will benefit my long term health and risk further muscle damage.
2) Or, drop the statins and hope by doing so I'm able to keep the exercise going without the risk of having to stop through muscle/ligament damage.
My GP was quite unexpectedly sympathetic and we've agreed to drop the statins for a month to see how it goes.
You are a man that knows his body { like me, we have had this shell for a bit now } and you also are quick to pick up when something is amiss with it.
I think that you are spot on with your diagnosis that it could be the Atrovastatin and it certainly is a know side effect of that particular statin.
I say that particular one as I am surprised you were not offered another make, but then it maybe a good thing that your Dr deems it safe for you to come off it altogether .
You seem fit and well, being able to do your roofing job and still playing Tennis, maybe he feels that your quality of life is very important to you, as we know that statins can, with some people, impact on that.
I understand your dilemma and far from it being " Pathetic " its an important question to get answers to.
It seems to me that between you and your Dr that you have your worries covered, second opinions are of course available and even a quick phone call to your heart nurse may help your longterm decisions.
Take care and really pleased that you are getting on so well.
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Thanks for your kind words, Blue 🙂. I hope I'm doing the right thing? My reasoning was that my grafts should have healed by now making it less likely that my body would be creating/sending large amounts of Cholesterol to the Arteries where the grafts/ trauma had taken place causing furring up of the new plumbing. As I'm not a cardiologist my theory is probably total rubbish 😅!
Anyway, thanks for your response and good heart health for 2023.
Regards, Denis
You're spot on, Asprin+Clopidgrel. 👍
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That is certainly another piece in the puzzle and like Thatwasunexpected said the blood thinners are more likely to be the culprit of the bruising { life is differently like a Miss Marpel mystery }
Dennis I have had a similar calf muscle tear when I decided to take a little jog and a springy leap off a pavement onto the road. It is a common sports injury when pushing off from one foot and is unlikely unrelated to the statin, but any blood thinner will cause it to bruise more easily.
That's exactly what my wife's says 🤣! But any excuse will do for me to ditch the statins!
Statins are known to have side effects which include muscle pain and in rare cases muscle weakness. A trial where you don't take them will certainly help to confirm whether you are one of those affected. However statins other than Atorvastatin are available which may not give these side effects, which may be important since you have been prescribed statins to reduce your long term risk of heart disease by reducing cholesterol and by stabilising existing plaque, which seems to be standard treatment for all known heart disease patients. So whereas a short term trial without a statin does not really affect your long term risk, doing without long term may affect that risk and maybe something to discuss with your GP if it is found that your cannot tolerate Atorvastin given alternative medication may be available.
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Hi LowerField, Thanks for your well thought out response to my post. It pretty much encapsulates exactly what had me tossing and turning a couple of nights ago. Oddly, today is the best I've felt for a while I'm usually a bit queasy during the day which I'd put down to Lansoprazole + Clopidgrel. But having not taken Atorvastatin for the last 48 hours maybe that was cause of it.
However, probably, just the nocebo effect?
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I also take lansoprazole, aspirin and (80mg) atorvastatin long-term in addition to other meds and apparently suffer no side effects, so in that regard appear to be fortunate. It is possible that clopidogrel is causing you to feel queasy, but the moderately good news on that is that you are likely to be able to stop that 12 month on from your bypass operation, which seems to be the norm as I understand it. Your bypass operation discharge notes should advise on that. That said when I took clopidogrel for 12 months I didn't get any side effects as far as I can remember, although unrelated I did struggle when I took angina meds for a few weeks but was then able to discontinue these as it turned out to be a misdiagnosis 🙄.
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Hi LowerField, I'm glad you had a misdiagnosis re. Angina that must of been a great relief. 80mg of Atorvastatin seems to be common amongst us Hearties. I was playing social tennis 🎾 Wednesday pm there's a group of us about 20 odd guy's (three of us have had a Bypass and three stents).
Of the five of us enjoying a cup of tea one had a heart attack 7 years ago and another 4 weeks ago. I mentioned my decision to give my 40mg of Atorvastatin a miss to my surprise they are both on your daily dosage of 80mg Atorvastatin.
My friend who had his heart attack 7 years ago takes all my meds plus 80mg Atorvastatin never seems to get injured and plays 6 days a week and like you doesn't suffer any side effects!
My other friend who had a mild heart attack 4 weeks ago says he feels as good as ever. He's also on all my meds + Atorvastatin.
So, I must be the odd one out!😅
Wishing you good heart health for 2023, Best wishes Denis
Hello Denis. I used to get exactly the same problem with my left calf. Automatically, my Brain convinced me it was a Blood Clot!! After Weeks of severe pain, only in my left leg, I phoned the Doctor. I am on Simvastatin and Warfarin plus others! To cut a long Story short, he gave me Amitriptyline 10mg, 2 per day. He said it was nothing to do with the Statin and a Nerve Problem! I really don't know what it was, but I do know after being prescribed Amitriptyline, it has gone completely
😱🤣!
Hi Parrotlover, that must have been a nightmare! Certainly puts my problems to shame . Glad you got it sorted. Best regards, Denis
I certainly agree it’s way more likely to be the blood thinners. I developed bruises from ordinary, everyday things such as pressing the poppers on my winter coat against my body. Knock your forearm against a door handle - big bruise. I scratched a small spot on my thigh and despite bigger and bigger plasters I ended up with jeans soaked in blood.
IMO one also needs to be aware that some GPs are too ready to agree with patients. Mine, many years ago, wanted to put me on a low dose Asprin and when I offered the slightest resistance he just said “okay don’t”. My current GP is like that too. Me: “Can I reduce xyz medication?” GP: “If you want to.”
Thanks for your reply, Henry 👍. Crikey I've been lucky as I seem more inclined to bruise more easily but nowhere near what you have been experiencing. On the upside I will be able to drop the Clopidgrel by September. Still be on the baby Aspirin though but as my pharmacist says it is a tiny dose. All the best, Denis
I should have mentioned that I’ve been on statins for +20 years - after my HA a large dose. Until the blood thinners I never had a problem with bruising. A bit of cramp in my calves generally when the dose has been increased, but it goes within a week. Good luck.
I wonder if you actually knocked your calf hard during your rooftop expeditions rather than got a calf strain?
We are all much more prone to surface bruising as we age and as a result of the meds we take. Did the bruise fade after a week or so? Do you tend to get them elsewhere, say on the backs of the hands as they are very liable to get accidentally knocked?
Hi Devonian 👋, you're quite right re. bruises on hands arms etc. My wife's fed up with me pointing 👉 out new bruises!🤣 No, these bruises were directly at the point of the muscle strain and there was a sharp pain when I prodded myself at the location of the strain.
Laid off the tennis and table tennis for 10 days invested a pair Nike calf supports sleeves and the bruises have gone and I'm back at it. Still going to give the Atorvastatin a miss just in case. Regards, Denis
have you looked at Number Needed to Treat? There is also Number Needed to Harm. I.e. how many people can you treat before the drug does any good or conversely any harm. Interesting stats.
👋 Hi Granny E, you bet! So hard for lay people to lay their hands black and white information on the pros and cons of various heart medications. Understandable of course as medical science has moved on it has become more and more complex. So, information for patients like myself who worry about what the medications we take are doing to our bodies and the effects whither imagined or not on our quality of life take some tracking down. Best regards, Denis
It's good you have a realistic GP. When I came off atorvastatin I was actually free of muscle pain within 2 weeks. It also never really reduced my cholesterol. I was then tried on 5mg rosuvastatin. My cholesterol reduced back to normal and no muscle pain. Apparently it's more expensive which is why they start you off on atorvastatin or simvastatin. When I was on blood thinners for a a year after my stents I had loads of bruises. So that's another element to consider.
That's really interesting, benjijen, everyone seems to be offered Atorvastatin following Bypass surgery as it is described as the Gold standard. However, to be truthful I've always been sceptical re. lipid theory treatment even before my diagnosis of heart disease. No doubt I will come to regret it but I will probably quietly drop statins for the foreseeable future. Thanks for your reply, best wishes for 2023.
Why don't you speak to your GP and ask to try to rosuvastatin instead?Why don't you discuss trying another thinner if you continue to get more bruising or more severe bruises ?
Or with your knowledge take care , protect your ankles or arms when doing jobs etc.
I'm probably going to sound a bit Mumsy now , but you were given you statin and your blood thinner for a reason .
You had the luck of an early diagnosis before and these medications are given to you to keep you lucky.
Unless you have very serious side effects to your medications it is better to take them and reduce the risk of another bypass or cardio incident .
Muscle pain and muscle mass loss is not a given. You are an otherwise very fit person , especially for your age range , so it's likely that you are still able to do enough exercise and follow a good diet , with enough protein , and a variety of fruit and vegetables, that reduces or prevents these side effects.
These are also more likely over 65 as well.
Sometimes we need to accept certain things after a health crisis and make adjustments to preserve our hard fought for health. Yes, I agree , that statins are being given to people without heart conditions often instead of good advice about diet and exercise , that's the type of statin therapy which is worth debate , taking them , and a type of blood thinner, when you have had heart issues to prevent new heart events isn't.
👋 Hi Bee, thanks for your response to my post. I read all my responses and I can't think of one that hasn't been thoughtful and given me food for thought.
Until I had by Bypass I was totally unaware such a forum existed and have gained quite a bit of comfort from sharing my experience and reading others who also have heart disease.
To be truthful I haven't really come to terms with my diagnosis. Having only suffered mild symptoms prior to my Bypass I'm pretty much in denial and have put it all down to the ageing process. Hence my determination not to take any medication at all. Perhaps if I had suffered a major heart attack and all the misery that comes with it I would be less anti statins + medication of any kind.
However, I'm still worried about the consequences of going against standard medical practice but rightly or wrongly I can't help questioning every bit of advise I've ever been given.
Questions are good . Getting advice from forums like this and other patients experience is good.But Honesty and Acceptance about your condition and future risks , no matter how difficult it can be to do that , is the most important thing after a health crisis that could happen again.
It's good to know what the risks are on certain medications to spot a serious side effect , or make sure you are taking the drugs that are recommended at the right doses , but, it isn't good to get too hung up on the potential of side effects or consider stopping meds if those side effects are mild and preventatable.
I understand, though , that it can be harder to reach Acceptance if you had your problem caught early and " dodged the bullet" . Just remember your medication , along with little changes in diet and exercise are there to prevent the second bullet leaving the chamber !
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Just to add what Blearyeyed has said above. I was diagnosed with high cholesterol (over 9) 25 years ago and have been taking statins ever since (after an abortive attempt to significantly reduce my cholesterol by lifestyle changes). My body was apparently already showing evidence from plaque laydown before the time I was diagnosed, and so I believe that statins have kept me going well into my 70s. I had an NSTEMI nearly 5 years ago followed by an angiogram and this showed some arteries were significantly blocked, Anyway I had another angiogram towards the end of last year and I was told that there was little change over the intervening period. So statins continue to do the job, and so my view is that if they are prescribed for good reason for us hearties, there has to be an overwhelmingly good reason not to take them.
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👋Hi Lower Field, fortunately, I have never to my knowledge suffered from high levels of cholesterol. So, to what extent Cholesterol played in my diagnosis of stenosis at the top of the LAD I'm not sure.
My brother had a massive fatal heart attack when he was 75 he may well have had high levels of Cholesterol but he would be the last person to consult a doctor regardless of any possible symptoms he may have been suffering from. However, my wife is quite a Harriden!😅 And she persuaded me to seek medical advice.
Getting back to my dilemma I'm OK with the blood thinners and betablokers etc as I can see clear benefits to taking them in the short term but I'm probably destined to spend a few more sleepless nights 🌙 stressing over my decision to stop taking Atorvastatin.
Thanks for your response. Best regards Denis
You're right, Jerry, ✅️ Prior to my Bypass I was only on a baby Aspirin for 7 mths and during that period I did notice I did bruise more easily. Best wishes, Denis
And not just 'injury'! Even a small (unnoticed) tap on any part of the body can produce nasty, purple bruises, particularly from Clopidogrel but aspirin as well. But statins also can have an effect, muscle, joint and bone pains especially, except there's no visible effect.
I had my Bypass 7yrs ago and I have been told frequently by Consultants and GP’s that the aches and pains in joints and muscles are caused by the statins. Bruising and extra bleeding when you cut yourself is caused by the blood thinners.
I was on Atorvastatin for years and suffered serious joint and muscle pain. I was recently changed to a fantastic Statin called Rosuvastatin which has given me a new lease of life without the pain. It has also dramatically lowered my Bad Cholesterol level.
👋 Hi Jane, that's really interesting. Others have mentioned the benefits of Rosuvastin .My GP hasn't quite given up on me yet and he's arranged to ring me in four weeks time to see how I've coped sans Atorvastatin. If I lose my nerve by then I may well agree to the Rosuvastin route.
My problem is blood pressure, not my heart, so hope is okay to post. My father-in-law was on the drug for several years. I did research at the time and learned that CoQ10 is the best supplement to take with a statin drug. I never did convince father-in-law to take it. He suffered through constant cramps and muscle weakness, fatigue, etc.
👋 Hi Phebamon, absolutely no problem posting 😊. Your father in law sounds a lot like mine (lovely man ex-sergeant major from the D Day Beaches to Berlin!) If I give into my fears and start on the statins again I will definitely bear your advice in mind.
He served in the Navy during WWII. He was my dad, the only real dad I ever had. He is gone 6 years now and I miss him every single day. He was the finest human I have ever known. Fortunately, I am married to his image. My hubby gets more like his dad every day. I have MGUS, a blood disorder, plus an auto-immune disorder plus sleep apnea. I would never take a statin. The statistics are very poor for females, plus my echocardiogram shows heart is fine. The biologic I am on has increased cholesterol levels. But, the MGUS excludes the use of a statin since it works on the bone marrow, which is where the MGUS problem stems from.
Hi Heather, thanks so much for your post. My GP's is pretty good had three blood tests since 26th September. My cholesterol levels have always been low same goes for heart rate blood pressure so I don't envisage it going through the roof. Best regards, Denis
have a look at cq10 and statins. I had muscle aches when I first started statins 80mg avortostatin. So I started this and I’ve managed to stay on the 80mg and exercise quite a bit.
Hi, just to say please to not stop your statin therapy, I was given statins nine years ago after a mini stroke, I like many others read to many bad reviews mostly viva the internet. And did not take the statins.Unfortunately I took a heart attack November,now I am on 6 different meds a day , and waiting further investigation for LAD Stenosis.
Since taking my statins Crestor 40mg, the highest dose allowed, my cholesterol has dropped into a safe zone.
Think hard about stopping the statins ,they could be a life saver in your future.
👋 Hi Cmnc, Thank you for your concern I know there's a lot of false information out there. I'm now 72 going on 73 if I was 10 years younger I would not be in a tiss wass worrying about dropping my Statins. I would definitely not stop taking them.
The latest research would seem to show there's little difference in mortality rates between statin and non statin takers over five years however from then on in the balance swings in favour of statin therapy.
So, there's my dilemma I'm not going to be around for ever.
Wishing you all the best for 2023. Best regards, Denis
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