5% beef mince?! : Would this be OK to... - British Heart Fou...

British Heart Foundation
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5% beef mince?!

Cherrybubble
Cherrybubble
93 Replies

Would this be OK to eat every 2 weeks for my husband? He has atherosclerosis, and had 2 stents fitted.

93 Replies
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MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star

This is the type of question where there is no right answer and probably no agreement.

In my view the answer is yes if his cholesterol is in range. Brown in a non-stick pan and maybe bulk up.with diced carrots and beans. Enjoy! 😀

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Cherrybubble

Ok thanks for that

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CPL593H

Probably, to make mince healthier I grate carrot and courgette in.

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Cherrybubble

Great idea

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Rose54

Hi

I can only say what I do as cook for the family so have to all eat the same

I use 5% fat mince to make shepherds pie ,chillie and Spag bol

I add diced veg to it for shepherds pie

Chillie I add the usual tomatoes ,onions ,kidney beans and peppers but I add more and then put in celery and sometimes other pulses.

Spag bol

The same loads of mushrooms ,tomatoes ,carrots ,tomatoes and celery

This way makes loads for freezer and more healthy

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Prada47
Prada47
in reply to Rose54

On behalf of my wife I agree 100% in fact you could be my wife as your doing exactly the same recipe for your dishes !!!

Regards

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judes

Another good way to bulk up minced beef is to put in some porridge oats, makes mince go twice as far. Been doing it for years and no one has noticed!

J

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Cherrybubble
Cherrybubble
in reply to judes

Wow never heard of that but love that idea

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Janma123
Janma123
in reply to judes

I use oatmeal to thicken the gravy in mince.

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Cherrybubble

Not heard that before good idea!

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Contax
Contax
in reply to Janma123

My sister makes me a food hamper at Xmas includes oat bran which I add to casseroles to thicken and dipped things in it instead of flour. I have also put cheap porridge oats in my grinder to make oat flour to make healthy. I had a friend that always fried mince and such then put on paper towels to remove fat, I add lots of veg as others have mentioned

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StillConcerned

Unfortunately, the particle size of carbohydrates makes a difference to the glycaemic-index rating. Smaller particles are more easily digested, hastening their breaking down to glucose in the body.

Why's this relevant? Well, the visceral fat we fear is formed from excess insulin in the body. A major contributor to insulin levels is the glycaemic-load of what we eat phcuk.org/nice , or how much glucose the food that we eat breaks down to.

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mistymolly
mistymolly
in reply to judes

Wow ❤

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Khonkaen

It all depends on what else he is eating.

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Cherrybubble

He has a good diet just wondered if we had to totally cut out red meat altogether or could get away with low fat version

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Lezzers

Unless your husband has been told to cut it out altogether why not have it if he enjoys it, my husbands nurse always says everything in moderation. My husband had a massive heart attack in1997, we've followed the BHF recommended diet since. Why not ask your husbands medical team or the BHF nurses for advice.

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StillConcerned

That's good advice from your husband's nurse, provided we have reliable parameters for what a moderate amount is. What's a moderate amount of cyanide for instance?

If we eat too little carbohydrate, the body attempts to make up the deficit from other foods. If we eat too much carbohydrate, the extra is turned to the visceral fat that leads to chronic ill-health. The ideal, and therefore moderate amount, is somewhere between the two, and for most people is only about half the RDA.

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Lezzers

As you know my husband has followed the BHF/NHS recommended diet for over 20 years having suffered a massive heart attack in 1997. He's doing very well on it so I'm pretty sure we know what we're doing by now. But thank you anyway.

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Cherrybubble

Yes will do thank you.

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Khonkaen

I think a little like that will be okay, if like me he is on statins that hits your cholesterol with a hammer. Mine is way to low for comfort now.

I had a burger a few months ago and didn't enjoy it after being vegan-ish for a few months.

Had some pancakes/maple syrup and icecream this afternoon, my first rael indulgence since my HA 7 months ago, wish I hadn't now, hope I don't pay later.

...no, I think 5% beef is a good idea, provided he likes it.

Someone on this forum said "forget about your HA, get on with you life" I think there is some befenit from that optimism. Optimism is your best friend.

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Khonkaen

When I hear the term "low fat" it makes me shudder, it is one of the main routes to the world obesity we see today. My ex-wife used to buy low fat everything ands just got fatter and fatter and she was always eating. 20% less fat, but eat twice as much for satisfaction. I on the other hand refused low fat foods and my weight gain was modest and only that dues to a lack of exercise.

Mince, although it looks lean usually has a bit of fat in it which IMO is good, especially if the rest of his food is healthy.

It is very important that we enjoy our food, if not it leads to depression and that is very detrimental to our health.

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Lezzers

Check out the BHF recipes, we use then a lot bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo...

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Cherrybubble

Thanks that’s helpful will do

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Jaydee22

I always buy the 5% mince whether it be pork or beef, I follow slimming world and its syn free. I had a spontaneous coronary artery dissection in april and I eat this mince at least once a week, healthiest one available.

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Cherrybubble

Ok that’s reassuring thanks

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Davjak

Hi there...why bother with the meat at all?why not use slightly blitzed mushrooms as a meat sub.instead?it's even better than meat!Or even soya mince?my hubby had a Tia.it really scared us,so we went vegan ie.no animal or dairy in our diet.Well,we've both in 2 years got so healthy it's amazing!.he's lost 3.5stones and his bp and cholesterol are perfect.i really feel it's saved our lives.Watch Forks over Knives on YouTube for the health benefits xxx

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Cherrybubble
Cherrybubble
in reply to Davjak

Will have a look; tried quorn mince it’s just not the same! Meat = flavour!

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Davjak
Davjak
in reply to Cherrybubble

Mixed mushrooms give the most amazing unctious flavours...and the benefit is they're good for you😊

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Heythrop51

Orrible stuff this Quorn!

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StillConcerned

The insulin index from the University of Sydney indicates that reducing fat raises the amount of insulin demand, which is a negative factor.

Hyperinsulinaemia underpins insulin resistance which is a forerunner for atherosclerosis.

It is excess protein and/or carbohydrate, too frequently, that causes the harmful VLDL. The ICS-NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme advocates having full (natural)-fat versions, and governing portions.

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Heythrop51

Err! So you are saying that everything bar fat raises cholesterol that blocks arteries! A truly bizarre claim!

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StillConcerned

Unless you look at it from the reverse angle; that natural fat being demonised in the first place was a bizarre claim (not the refined, man-made stuff), and now it is so entrenched in our societal psyche, backed up by money.

No-one's saying that sensible amounts of protein and carbohydrate aren't okay; again, societally we've lost track of what moderation is.

The RI for protein is just 50g per day. Jaminet and Jaminet (2012) assert that the average person's body uses between 120g and 160g per day in the form of carbohydrate. These are moderate amounts. The more we go above, the more likely we are to suffer chronic ill-health from excess insulin, insulin resistance, visceral fat and VLDL.

Access the ICS-NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme and make informed decisions.

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Cherrybubble

Interesting thanks.

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Sparkeybigshot1

Look at Keto diet.

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Ecki

We use Turkey breast mince, which is 2% Fat. I make a version of shepherd's pie with grated carrot, peas and any other veg I can find. We call it gobbler pie. I also use it to make chili, burgers, pasta sauce, etc. I hadn't thought of adding oats, I'll be trying that.

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Cherrybubble
Cherrybubble
in reply to Ecki

Turkey would be healthier but it won’t taste the same though!

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Ecki
Ecki
in reply to Cherrybubble

True, but it's just as nice. We are heading for vegetarianism, in a fairly leisurely way. We've stopped eating mammals, still eat birds and fish for now.

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Cherrybubble
Cherrybubble
in reply to Ecki

Will give it a go then thanks!

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daffyd
daffyd
in reply to Cherrybubble

We use 2% turkey mince for shepherds pie and spag bol, we add a couple of Knorr beef stock cubes to get that beefy taste. We use Knorr instead of Oxo has it has a lower salt content.

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Malcolm631911

Personally i just don’t fancy red meat after my HT. I’ve not touched it for two years.

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Cherrybubble

Good for you! Trying to drastically reduce it.

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benjijen

Every 2 weeks? Are you vegetarian the rest of the time?

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Cherrybubble

Lots of vegetarian meals in the week, some fish meals and occasional chicken so thought red meat once a fortnight would be ok, just wondered what others thought.

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jerry12953

Really, I can't believe that the occasional portion of red meat will suddenly cause anyone to have a heart problem. It's not like part digested chunks of meat suddenly start flowing through our arteries and causing a blockage, surely .......

I would imagine it is the cumulative effect of, say, red meat and/or dairy over a period of years which would be the problem (although I'd be happy to be corrected on this.....!).

Look out for Quorn products to replace your meat intake. You can buy Quorn mince to use in shepherds pies/lasagnes , for example, and they do chunks, sausages, all sorts of meat replacements.

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Cherrybubble

We’ve tried the quorn products and they’re a bit hit and miss but thanks for your suggestions.

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StillConcerned

Does it make sense that the processed proteins cultivated by man are safer for us than the protein accompanied by fat in nature, whether you believe in evolution or creation?

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Outandabout

I have been doing half and half meat and Quorn mince now and no-one seems to notice. It's true that Quorn alone doesn't taste of beef but then why should it? and if you are not veggie or vegan a normal low salt stock cube will add a bit of flavour. It's scientifically proven that if you try something several times your brain accepts it. Less meat is better for everyone, in fact in France all the schools there have to have 1 vegetarian meal a week as school dinners.

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Cherrybubble

Will try half and half that’s a great idea. My kids aren’t as keen on 100% quorn shepherds pie etc but this could be a good compromise all round.

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Outandabout

.....and if you don't tell them it's even better!

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Richos

Why 5% mince ? You can use higher fat mince and drain it during the cooking process. Alternatively a really healthy way to bulk out meat mince is to add savoury soya protein mince. The Neils yard Whole Foods brand available from Holland and Barrett or a version available from the larger Tesco stores. These work really well and the texture is as if you have used 100% meat mints.

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lateguitarist

You need to start investigating vegetarian options. You can make lentil based shepherds pie as well as loads of other things. I once had a "scotch egg" where the chef had rendered down mushrooms to make the "meat" outer, it was absolutely fantastic, better than actual sausage meat ones, many of the cheaper of which will have all manner of undesirable things mixed in as the "meat" bit. It's up to you, but for me I have pledged that if anything else happens in the future, I can at least say that I have 100% done my bit to maintain the best possible diet along with exercise etc.

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Cherrybubble

We do try veggie options, but the kids aren’t as keen and it’s important to me that we all eat the same thing, plus the kids will miss out on red meat benefits if we cut out altogether.

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lateguitarist

Beef production is a very significant contributor to climate change. A lot of younger people, thankfully, are becoming vegetarian for this reason alone. Your kids might thank you when they are of an age!

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Janma123

Naturally reared British/Scottish/Welsh beef and lamb do not contribute much to climate change - the grass they graze is a huge carbon sink! It is also low in calories and full of nutrients and flavour! The nutrients in it are in a form that is readily absorbed by the human body.

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StillConcerned

The truth is, if we have to compromise our diet it's the size of the population that's the problem. Quick fixes such as eating crops instead of animal products will only work for a short while, if at all.

Many of our chronic ill-health conditions can be traced back to the dawn of agriculture.

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lateguitarist

You are correct to a degree, and population control is something that will have to be introduced eventually, but it seems it is a fairly unpopular subject, particularly amongst certain religions. Therefore we will have to switch to more productive and less polluting, per acre, plant based food. I don't think some of the "celebrities" help to be honest, having large families.

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lateguitarist

They certainly do carbonbrief.org/grass-fed-b...

The land could also be used for much more productive vegetable growing. I know it's hard to stomach, I used to be an avid meat eater, but for the good of my own health and also the environment, I have knocked it on the head. It also makes you feel better when you look them in the eyes!

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StillConcerned

I did see a study recently that found the effects to the climate were exaggerated (with regard to the difference between grass-fed animals and crop production), and whilst acknowledging this was probably from someone with vested interests, we can only speculate the effects.

There's no doubt we should have greater respect for our planet, but the argument is that if we did make the proposed changes would it actually significantly impact climate change? I really don't think it is as cut and dried as we are led to believe. Bear in mind that in the 1970s the concern was over energy shortage, it was only when China and India increased their production with ever-increasing demands for fossil fuel that climate change was offered up as a major concern. Basically, when the West's economy is threatened, we have to justify stifling other economies.

Ultimately, our guts are not designed to cope with the amount of vegetation proposed from this 'climate friendly' diet. We need majority fat, our hind guts aren't big enough to accommodate adequate conversion of fibrous carbs to fat by bacteria, and excess de novo lipogenesis is harmful to us.

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lateguitarist

I am not really following your argument here but I get the impression you are denying climate change. With the greatest respect, if you cannot see the ever increasing effects around you even now, you are deluding yourself. No, changing things like beef production will not make a dramatic difference to the global problem, but countries such as ours must be seen to "take a lead". This is a global issue and if we do not start to act now, in either large or collectively small ways, our children's children are going to suffer. Personally I believe we are living in a "golden age" to some degree, as if we do not halt the damage we are doing to our planet future generations are going to have a tough time. Personally i Would like to see aviation fuel taxed properly, the ever increasing desire and "right" to air travel is a major contributor that has to be reduced dramatically. If we ignore issues like this our descendants will live to regret it. We can all make a difference!

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StillConcerned

Please re-read.

I'm not denying climate change at all. I'm saying the proposed changes may not be enough to significantly impact; some maybe worthwhile, some are to give a feel-good factor that something is being done, and some were arrived at for ulterior motives.

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lateguitarist

I agree, they may not, well, won't. But we have to start somewhere, and hopefully set an example. If we all just did something, it would make a massive difference. For instance if we all decided not to fly to go on holiday (maybe just once out of the 3 and 4 some people have) it would make a difference, along with not using plastic wherever possible and not filling the kettle to the brim to make 1 cup of tea, as people do? I realise the developing world has it's part to play, and that is going to be very difficult, but at the end of the day the industrial revolution started here so I think it is incumbent on us to set an example.

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Hertsengland

Sorry to be difficult, but unfortunately grass fed animals have a higher carbon footprint than factory farmed ones. The reason being, herbivores prevent trees growing which would be a much bigger carbon sink. I say this as someone who would never buy factory farmed animal products as they are so cruel. As indeed so are free range farming practice. The main reason why meat is so bad for the environment is the amount of land that it uses. England was once covered in forests. An envirmentalist called Sailesh Rao has some very interesting things to say on this subject. Have you seen the film Cowspiracy---it's very good. A vegan uses 1/18th the land of an omnivorous human and 1/3rd as much as a vegetarian. Check out Sailesh, he is fascinating and has a positive message.

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lateguitarist

You can get all the protein (and more) you need from beans, pulses, all sorts, it is a fallacy that you must have red meat so there is no need to worry about that side of things.

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Cherrybubble

Teenage girls are particularly vulnerable to iron deficiency and red meat actually aids the absorption of iron from plant based sources so will stick to combining I think.

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Hertsengland

A dietian I know always says. Study after study shows no difference in the iron status of vegetarian vegans and meat eaters. Heme iron is suspected to hurt arteries, iron is toxic and the body absorbs less from plants even though more is present We seem to have a problem preventing iron absorption from animal sources hemochromatosis Is I believe the most common genetic disease

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StillConcerned

We can agree on that. Protein deficiency is not an issue to the vast majority of the developed world.

It's interesting that the NHS accepts veganism as a healthy diet, whilst acknowledging the need to guard against common deficiencies such as iron, B12, plus fat soluble vitamins and minerals.

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Kimkat

For years now I have fried mince off and drained the fat but I don’t cook with mince as much as I used to, as I have got older I tend to eat more fish but mixing mince with Quorn is a great idea and of course lentils another, anything to bulk it out is good. Variety is the spice of life and the old saying a little bit of what you like does you good, comes to mind.

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MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star

As I predicted there is no right answer or agreement. I have a soya intolerance so soya proteins is out for me. . One issue for me is we hearties try and avoid processed food and Quorn could be classed as one of the most processed!

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Cherrybubble

It’s a minefield!

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Lezzers

I'm having homemade burgers tonight made with less than 5% mince & homemade chips sprayed with fry light & cooked in the oven.

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Deano_H
Deano_H
in reply to Lezzers

Oh right, have you eaten all the pork pie now then ? 🤭

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Deano_H

Pork pie?

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Deano_H
Deano_H
in reply to Lezzers

Oh my mistake, I thought you had pork pie at work yesterday with a sausage roll chaser 😏

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Deano_H

Really???

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dunestar

I would say go ahead. We need animal protein for eg the iron content.

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MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to dunestar

And Vitamin B12. Calcium is also better absorbed from dairy than tablets! Low fat versions are available.

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StillConcerned

I know this isn't popular, but most of my energy comes from natural fat, the majority monounsaturated, and I don't have any chronic ill-health conditions.

We've been misinformed on other things too. It's still common-practice to tell people to eat little and often, yet it has been shown conclusively that it is when we don't eat that insulin levels are enabled to subside, allowing fat to be utilised for fuel.

The frequency of eating, and eating foods that stimulate abnormally high amounts of insulin (such as skimmed-milk), have contributed to the massive increase in being overweight and obese over the past half century.

Despite the sterling efforts of our health service that is helping people to live longer, recent stats have shown that the incidence of heart disease has not improved. That's despite national nutrition surveys continually confirming that as a nation we are eating closer to the proportions of Eatwell than ever before. I would prefer to think that it is the inertia of good intentions that is perpetuating this situation, rather than the involvement of the food industry in formulating guidelines; the outcome isn't favourable in any case.

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Hertsengland

B12 is a by product of bacteria it does not come from meat. As animal live in sheds and are fed on concentrates and sadly antibiotics they do not have naturally occurring B12. Farmers inject them with it, if you are lucky. Adult mammals are not meant to breast feed, and especially not from another species, and we can not deal with large amounts of calcium, the result is osteoporosis is most common in countries that consume dairy. Only around a third of the world population eat dairy products

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Deano_H

I use turkey breast mince from the supermarket which is just as nice 👍🏻

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Cherrybubble

Turkey seems to a popular alternative so will try it for sure thanks

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Handel

Hi Cherrybubble.

My hubby and me have 5% mince cottage pie once a month or so. I add chopped allotment veggies and top it with allotment mashed spud!! I figure that with all the 'veg digging up' exercise, we deserve a treat!

We can't have Quorn as we both have quite serious allergic reactions to it.

I'd say go for it! Good luck xxx

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HiddenThis reply has been deleted
Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Hidden

Please refer to the link below from Helen bhf administrator, regarding extreme lifestyle diets healthunlocked.com/bhf/post...

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MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star
in reply to Hidden

Whilst there are quite a few YouTube clips about this and various books that make the authors money I have never seen any peer reviewed research or evidence that shows reversal of atherosclerosis. Also if you look human teeth have evolved for a mixed diet (omnivore) but neither for a carnivore (e.g. cat) nor a herbivore (e.g. horse) one.

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DavidG1971

I have 2 stents - rightly or wrongly still eat red meat occasionally. I have Spag Bol with 5% fat. With the statins, porridge, green stuff daily, nuts and porridge - I have to allow myself some good stuff. I can’t believe that some mince every other week will be critical.

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Esselstyn

Its OK to eat what you want, but its not OK to not be informed so you can make your own decision.

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Lezzers
Lezzers
in reply to Esselstyn

About a month ago you stated you had over exaggerated when you said this diet can reverse heart conditions!

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benjijen

Diet always produces controversy on here. I steer clear of processed foods and stick to natural (including red meat) as far as possible. That's not to say I don't ever eat things that I wouldn't usually. i.e. my grandaughter (20) is staying for a couple of days and we had pizza last night and will have Indian take away tonight (I won't have the rice). Monday night I will be back to eating fresh, unprocessed food!

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Esselstyn

Every one should eat what they want, but it should not be controversial to talk about diet, in regards of what is essentially for most people a food born disease. If it was a lung cancer group, I would recommend not smoking, I would also recommend that in this group. I question the motivation of the organisations that do not spell it out as it is, I can not understand them, as I said eat what you like, but let us all be informed, lets not suppress information that could dramatically help people. I know its controversial, but honestly I don't know why. Its such a simple thing, you have complete control of it.

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Lezzers

I don't believe it is controversial to talk about diet but I do believe it's controversial to say a particular diet will cure heart disease! As it's been said many times before one size does not fit all, as an example this diet would actually be detrimental to my husbands health. This is why Helen from the BHF admin has asked that we do not recommend diets but advise people to speak to their medical team, I did post the link to you earlier.

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Hertsengland

Hi. I am interested in your views. What has been recommended for your husband and what do you think is a good diet. I have always been fascinated by nutrition

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Vic67

Use turkey mince as I do.

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