I have posted a couple of times on here in the past giving the history of my journey which has been interesting to say the very least. Two heart attacks (2004 and 2007), 11 stents. Total change in lifestyle. Just going to celebrate my 60th birthday.
Well at my annual checkup this year I have been told I am going to need an aortic valve replacement. Whilst last year I was told I'm fitter than my Cardiologist and everything is great just keep doing what I do. ?
If a healthy valve is rated 1 and a bad one is rated 4, I am already a 2.
How can things change so quick ?
Written by
legoman58
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I've noticed that doctors often say things that seem excessively optimistic. I guess they're just trying to motivate their patients, and when they encounter someone who has made healthy changes to their lifestyle they want to say something positive and encouraging. That's only human really.
I had a similar experience in that I used to have an annual company medical, and I always came away with a pat on the head for being in decent shape. Then five years after I took early retirement, bang, I needed a triple bypass! Subsequently I accept doctor's praise with good grace...but also with a huge pinch of salt!
More important for people of our age is the realisation that the biggest risk factor we face is age itself. I think the statistics show that an obese, smoking forty year old actually has a lower risk of a heart attack than a teetotal, marathon running 60 year old. Consequently the lifestyle changes that kept you safe ten or fifteen years ago aren't necessarily sufficient today.
I'm reconciled to implementing a raft of lifestyle changes now, but also that I'll have to keep raising the bar as I get older. Our atherosclerosis is a progressive disease, like the Terminator it'll never stop trying to kill us, and keeping one step ahead gets harder every year.
IMO, some people with atherosclerosis are empowered to halt the progression and slowly reverse it to degree with significant diet and lifestyle changes in addition to medications as needed. Perhaps due to genetics this may not be possible for some, but for others it is , IMO, certainly possible. I base this on personal experience and and on studies which I believe confirm this, although I am well aware that not everyone believes this to be so.
IMO the dietary and lifestyle changes that you suggest are required and you have acknowledged yourself are so extreme that very few individusls would be able to follow them consistently.
What is needed are realistic pragmatic solutions to the challenges we all face trying our best to live as well as we can with our heart conditions.
A belief is not a fact it is an act of faith.
One person's individual experience cannot be applied to a whole population. Heart disease is a complex condition with many different underlying causes. There is not one single magic bullet than reverse coronary artery disease.
It is part of the ageing process just we develop laughter lines on our faces and grow hopefully in wisdom.
We may slow the process of ageing but we cannot stop it.
Yes, the dietary and lifestyle choices are so extreme that the vast majority with CAD would not even consider implementing them. That does not mean by any stretch that these changes cannot be made by most people if they are so inclined. And no, I don't claim that this is some sort of magic bullet that will cure all that ales us, only that I have concluded it can be a solution for SOME to halt or even lead to regression for some if they are completely committed to implementing the extreme life altering behaviors to improve cardiac health. Truth be told, most people do not have the discipline and are not willing to make the sacrifices to make these changes. And for this diet and lifestyle to make a difference, it has to be done more than consistently, it has to be done without deviation if someone wants the benefits that this diet and lifestyle can do to to improve cardiac health. I realize this diet is not realistic in the minds of most people.
I did not imply that my individual experience could be applied to the whole population, in fact quite the contrary, as genetics and whatever our personal health may be are all different. I am well aware that heart disease is a complex issue and has many different causes and I did not state or imply otherwise.
The fact that you have not experienced a halt to or regression to atherosclerosis does not mean others have not experienced this. The fact that your belief is that atherosclerosis progression cannot be stopped does not mean that it cannot be stopped. The fact that you don't believe in the studies that I do does not mean that the studies on this diet and lifestyle are not correct in the conclusion that this disease can be stopped with EXTREME diet and life style change. The fact that you have concluded yourself that this diet and life style cannot halt this disease is nothing more than "your belief."
When you stated that we can slow the process of the disease but cannot stop it you speak in absolute terms, as if this is a fact when in actuality it is only what you believe. I respect your opinion, but by speaking in absolutes as you have you are dismissing the possibility that what others believe to be true. Those that believe in this diet and lifestyle do so based on the information available to them, there research, and personal experience. The fact that you definitively state that we cannot halt the progression is merely your belief. I have not spoken in absolutes, or as if my conclusion is definitive. I stated what I did based on my belief in the studies I have read, and personal experience, and based on that criteria I believe this diet and lifestyle can be a viable solution for some to halt the progression of the disease. For you to arbitrarily dismiss the beliefs of others on viable ways to successfully combat this disease is nothing more than your opinion, nothing more than your BELIEF.
Time to bring our interesting discussion to an end.
I do not arbitrarily dismiss anything and I feel you are making inappropriate statements about my beliefs .
At present the scientific evidence is highly suggestive that coronary artery disease cannot be reversed.
The BHF raised the issue today that the fall from deaths from cardiovascular disease has stalled.
The BHF's Big Beat challenge a £ 30 million funding award will hopefully find realistic and pragmatic solutions to the world wide problem of heart and circulatory disease.
I understand you believe the evidence is suggestive that CAD cannot be reversed. Are you conceding that there is evidence that progression can be stopped?
When they utter the phrase "all good, have a nice life", usually, it's a cue that there's some dirty laundry stashed inside a hidden cupboard, ready to be spread out in front of you later. It happened to me and I could read them like a book these days.
Hey legoman58. Crickey that's a bummer. But good luck from one AVR to one soon-to-be. Sure/hope it will go well for you. Keep us posted how you're doing. Nic x
Interesting debate, let me add my two pence worth.
A fit and healthy runner, running regular marathon for past 12 years. No family history of CHD or Diabetes. Never smoked or abused alcohol. Maintained healthy weight/BMI with sensible mediterranean style diet.
Diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes three years ago and subsequently diagnosed with CHD. Ended up with 3 stents implant followed by a heart attack. The damaged heart muscle then developed Arrythmia and now being evaluated for a device implant.
All of the above within 3 years.
No medical expert has given me a logical explanation for why/how I did I go wrong!
Most heart disease sufferers are served reasonably well by the NHS, but those people who led exemplary lives before their diagnosis seem to get a pretty raw deal.
When a slim, non-smoker, who exercises regularly is diagnosed with heart disease the advice is...lose weight, stop smoking, exercise more. Well okay...but...
Are you supposed to conclude it's just bad luck or bad genes, so sit quietly and wait for an early death?
Hopefully MandM you're immersing yourself in the literature and interrogating your test results at the next level down. My GP seems very enlightened (more so than my cardiologist) and talks about the profound link between type 2 diabetes and heart disease, so it's interesting to see that you're diagnosed with both. I'm not a doctor and I'm not qualified to give advice, but in your place I'd be leaving no stone unturned in an attempt to reverse the T2 diabetes, with the hope that sorting the diabetes will also arrest the heart disease.
Thanks Chapychap, I would refrain from commenting on how those people who led exemplary lives get treated ‘differently’ by NHS. I can only talk about my experience and so far, it has been a positive experience but a slower one.
The only advice I was given was to cut down my exercise, aka running, and take medication regularly, something I have taken onboard wholeheartedly.
At this stage my conclusion is not dissimilar to what Clerkenweller has suggested, if its not in my genes then its just down to fate/luck/meant to have it/etc!
You are absolutely right, I have been immersing myself in the literature and interrogating test results at the next level down but unfortunately my GP rather spent their time addressing the underlying problems than discussions around the link between T2 diabetes and heart disease. Yes it’s a challenge that I ended up with both and more importantly I had no obvious symptoms for either of those.
Yes I am doing my best to address my T2, I declined to take the medication for T2 as I was confident that I could address T2 with lifestyle management. In the last three years my A1C is bit like a yoyo, but still within the parameters and without metformin.
I am used to comments like, oh you look so slim so why you have T2, oh you are a marathon runner so how comes you ended up with heart disease, now I just laugh it off. The only downside I see that I find difficult to advocate healthy lifestyle, unsure if people will actually take me seriously!
In an excellent book by the Papworth most senior cardiologist ‘The Angina Monologues ‘ he cites 2 causes for HD that you can do nothing about: genes, luck. Mine was genes.
Hi legoman, sorry to hear about your valve issues which I'm sure can be sorted with surgery. I actually wanted to congratulate you for living for 15 years with coronary heart disease.
I read the posts from other users debating whether atherosclerosis can be stopped or not and surely you are living proof that it can.
Reading you post it seems that you developed chd at a young age around 45. This young age normally suggests an aggressive disease but despite this and a large number of stents it seems you have lived the last 12 years event free and even now your latest problem is not related to atherosclerosis.
So congratulations again, for me you are proof that athersclerosis progression can indeed be slowed or halted.
Thank you Fergusthegreat. And to everyone else that has posted. Firstly can I just say I apologise for publishing a "poor me, poor me, pour me a drink" moment on this forum because I think I was just feeling a little down when I did and that is not me. Which leads me to answer your question. For me, emphasis there on for me, ie not for everyone, it's been all about staying positive and getting on with it. Yes I was 44 when I had my first HA but I drank like a fish, smoked like a trooper and other stuff. So a drastic lifestyle change was inevitable and very needed anyway. Quit smoking, drinking, exercised 5 days a week and ate like a Mediterranean Monk, ie fat free. Felt great !!! After 3 years had another and more serious HA anyway. Go figure. Two ways to look at this. (1) Oh man, after everything I do, everything I gave up and I still have a HA. "poor me, poor me....." Or (2) Damn good job I made all those changes or I may not be here. I chose (2), went back to the changed lifestyle and felt great again after a few more stents and a few more milligrams being added to my daily meds of course. Twelve years later, here we are. And not 12 years living like a monk, yes I still exercise 5 - 6 days a week (5k treadmill, weights, swimming, golf etc., etc.,), but everything in moderation. The odd drink, feel like sh** afterwards though so wonder why I do, LOL. The odd fry up on a Sunday morning, etc., At the end of the day, you guys have it cracked, which is why I come to this forum, Genes and Aging. Can't really do much about them, but making sure I am fit enough, both physically and mentally to deal with what is to come next I can, I do and I will. Thank you for pulling me back on track.
Hey legoman thanks for the follow up. I'm very much like you, I made some lifestyle changes but nothing to monk like because life has to have some pleasure. I have always been fit, slim and never smoked so maybe mine's genetic but I try to eat healthily and make sure I eat a lot of certain foods like beetroot, walnuts, blueberries etc that are proven to aid heart health. I also maintain my LDL cholestrol below 1.0 mmol/L as I think this has been shown to be the level to halt athersclerosis progression in about 70% of people.
Not sure if it's working or not but fingers crossed, take care Mark
"I read the posts from other users debating whether atherosclerosis can be stopped or not and surely you are living proof that it can."
I don't think anyone's argued that atherosclerosis can't be slowed down or arrested. But there's no compelling evidence that I'm aware off (and believe me I've looked!) that it can be reversed or cured to the point where previously blocked arteries become clear.
It is established that the heart (and only the heart) can sometimes grow new tiny arteries to bypass blockages. But that's not the same as an actual cure. Which is why the view of both the NHS and the BHF is that atherosclerosis cannot be reversed and is for life.
Hi chappychap, apart from Dr Esseltyn's extreme diet I have not heard of any instances where atherosclerosis is rumoured to have been cured. Even the most optimistic of statin trials only quote regression of 1 to 2% of total atheroma volume so I agree with you the bhf and everyone else that athersclerosis cannot be cured.
I do however believe that it's progression can be halted or slowed. I had a successful stent fitted to my LAD 30 months ago but I also have a mild blockage in my distal RCA.
It's this that I'm trying to prevent from worsening or at least slow down as well as avoid any other new blockages and thus save the health service a lot of money.
The fact that legoman has lived at least 12 years event free despite 11 stents is proof to me that the course of atherosclerosis can be slowed.
If you read the results of the LIPID study you will see that for people under 55 with established atherosclerosis the cardiac mortality rate was only 10% after 18 years.
I'd be happy with that, not a cure but a slowing down so I can ride my bike a bit more.
Hi, i very recently went for an operation on my aortic valve, I had a tumour which was removed without the need for valve replacement, but, whilst rummaging around they spotted that my tricuspid valve was leaking profusely, i only had an echo scan in February plus all the pre op tests and it didnt show up. The surgeon during the op said “impossible” when he was told but it was possible and i had a repair. So got two for the price of one. I really believe that sometimes they just dont know evrything. But am grateful for what they do know. Best wishes for your op !
Sorry to hear the news. You sound as if you’ve been going through the . All the very best. Take care and don’t worry too much it will be ok. There’s been a few people with the aorotlic valve needing replaced. Take care.
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