Hi everyone Iam iss and I have just been diagnosed with copd. I work for the nhs but have been off sick for 11 months. It all started with a collapsed lung and after many tests I have a diagnosis of copd. I have now been told by my manager come back to work with adjustments or I will be sacked. I can’t see what adjustments they will make I work on a ward and Iam feeling physically unwell with lung pain and short of breath with any exertion. My friend mentioned retirement but Iam 55 as anybody else been in a situation like this or have any advice please.
COPD and working : Hi everyone Iam iss... - Lung Conditions C...
COPD and working
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Issy22
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Hi sorry to hear you're going through so much along with a shocking manager. It's not up to your manager to decide what adjustments he/she are going to make and they definitely can't sack you. There's processes in place to protect workers in their workplace not to intimidate them!I would suggest you contact occupational health and even speak to your respiratory specialist for guidance.
Take care of yourself 🌹
Thank you Carol
I will ring occupational health tomorrow. My manager is not a nice person and all this stress is not helping.. Thank you for replying and the advice. Take care
I would definitely be proactive with a manager like that. Apart from the stress it's causing you it's very clearly bullying tactics 🌹
Document everything with occupational health - it could get messy if your manager is tricky. I was in a similar position last year. Make sure you were a mask if your return to work & be very careful with respiratory infections - it’s the main thing that hastens this horrible disease. You’re 55 so could just about take early retirement- or if you have officially diagnosed copd then you can retire on health grounds. Keep us updated
It's disgusting isn't it bullying genuinely ill people!
It certainly is 🌹
I’m pretty sure you can’t be sacked for a long term illness. You need to speak to occupational health. They will be on your side.
Thank you for replying I didn’t think to speak to them but will tomorrow.
Unfortunately you can be sacked for long term illness. However they don’t call it that! They would use incapacity rule and not able to meet needs of contract. Ultimately it all means the same thing though.
Yes you can. The NHS will only pay you for one year which is alot more than most organisations
Yes you can get sacked for having been off sick for ages as at a place I worked at they sacked a girl for having been off long term sick with stress for a year!
hi issy don’t be intimidated by bullies With the right help U can surely be a valued NHS nurse doing something much less physical than your present position Good luck
I'd speak to HR
Thanks for advice
I agree with Pat that HR should be dealing with this and arranging OH assessments. Also ask HR what early retirement/ill helath circumstances are. Find out all you can and don't be bullied. Why would a manager on a ward want someone who clearly would be unable to manage the role. Good Luck.
Hi Issy. I was a teacher for many years and then got ill. My contract allowed for 12 months paid sick leave - 6 months full pay and then 6 months half pay. When that ran out my contract was terminated and I was given 3 months notice on full pay.
HR, Occupational Health and the Union were involved. HR pushed for termination of contract, the union didn’t (or couldn’t do much) and occupational health supported my application for retirement on ill health grounds, as did my consultant, which meant my pension was not actuarised (reduced).
My advice would be to push for treatment. With a bit of luck you will see your condition improve. If it doesn’t it will give you the evidence you need to get ill health retirement. I’m assuming NHS contracts are similar to teachers as they are both government run. Teachers pensions regs state must have tried all available treatments - in copd I think this would include pulmonary rehabilitation. You would also need a supportive report fro Occupational Health and a supportive report from a consultant.
I hope it doesn’t come to this but I had to delay claiming my pension as I had not jumped through the all available treatment hoop. Best to be prepared than have to delay.
Thank you so much for the information you have sent. I feel so much better with this advice and will find out what I can from occupational health/ HR tomorrow. Thank you.
Hi again. It’s a while ago, but things are coming to mind. You should have a sickness prceedure policy document somewhere. Look it out and make sure you are familiar with it. It is not just you who has to follow this, but also your employer. If they don’t and they finish you, you might have a case for unfair dismissal. In teaching the HR department basically ensures that this is adhered to - covering their backs- the union usually looks for any instances that are not being followed. I assume that is the case in the NHS. This came to mind when you mentioned HR and OH. In my case (although we had the ability to refer to OH ) the sickness document stated at what point during an absence the Headteacher had to make the referral and at what point a meeting had to take place between the absentee and HR. (Arranged by the HTeacher.)
Last thing - have you thought of applying for PIP?
Hi I have just contacted occupational health and I have an appointment at the end of the month. Thank you for all your advice and information. I will download the work sickness policy today. It’s just so overwhelming.
As others have suggested you need to speak with occupational health. To start with your manager can’t just decide on reasonable adjustments without occ health involvement! Are you a member of a union? They can also support and assist you. With regards to ill health retirement this can be complicated and again you would need occupational health involvement. I retired on health grounds when I had just turned 52yrs so depending on your situation it could be viable. However having said that most work places (I worked for local authority) will do everything possible to avoid paying it out because ultimately it is very expensive. HR will get involved and it needs to be remembered that ultimately they look out for the work place above all else!
In my workplace, process was to have support from occupational health - they were well versed about my situation and I’d had a lot of support from them. They contacted my gp for a report and wrote a report themselves. All information then went to independent doctor who ultimately made decision. Whole process took 6-7 months so it wasn’t a quick process. Also I found it extremely stressful the whole time so be prepared.
Hope this helps and feel free to PM me if you would like anymore information.
I was forced to retire early, bad managers was not a problem, I kept kinda collapsing, not on the ground like did not know what was what. Was a hard job garden centre /nursey but \i liked it and kept going back. In the end I was letting people down, i retired and he kept my job open for 12 months, I hade COPD/ASTHMA and heart problems, I went downhill at work after i got Chicken pox in my 50, i went to work in a balaclava, I should have took time off. I was medically retired early so I had no problems except, I liked my job and did not want to retire and it was good money, bat hard as I say, I springtime start 5am and finished 9-30 PM, to the best with lung and heart problems but the money was good.
Talk it over and do what is right for your and your family. I worked on a bit to long i think, but everyones not the same .
Hi Ern you seemed like you really loved your job. I do too but your health always comes first. I hope you are feeling a bit better now. Thank you for your advice and information. Take care
Sorry to hear how unhelpful you are finding your superior. You can at your age take early retirement due to ill health. You can also and should apply for PIP now which you will also be eligible for whether you continue to work or not. Hope you can do whats best for you. If I can offer any further help contact me, Best wishes Ruth
Thank you Ruth
Good morning. Yes I should be talking to my union representative if you're in a union. Or if not try acas. They have to listen to what you have to say and what you feel you can manage to do. Even if it's reduced hours. Good luck. Brian
I worked for local authority for 24 years and lost a lot at work with my Chronic Asthma, Severe Emphysema and LAM’s Disease. I always got the Union involved (Unison) who were brilliant. I loved my job and had the best colleagues. But even the Occupational Health Doctor couldn’t believe I was still working my lungs were so bad. He sent a report to HR and so did my GP and Consultant all saying until I get a double Lung Transplant, my working life was basically done and they all favoured for ill Health Retirement on Full Pension.
Your boss sounds like a right fatherless child and is basically bullying you, which is not on and I’m sure HR will deal with them.
So my advice is contact HR, your Union and get a medical done by your Occupational Health, ask your Consultant to right a report detailing your illness and also ask your GP too for a report to give to HR. But they will most probably request these anyway.
But if I were you, I’d contact your U Rep first and tell them everything your boss has been doing by bullying you. It’s only HR that can force you back to work, not your manager.
I was only 43 when I was retired on ill health which made me really sad and scared at what’s in front of me.
I wish you the best of luck and hope you get what you’re due after all your years of hard work.
Definitely speak to your union. HR is not on your side; if you get the full ill health retirement it is very expensive to the employer and they will try to avoid it. You have to try all possible treatments so sign up for pulmonary rehab asap. If you’re not well enough to do your usual job then you should explore a change of role within your organisation that is less strenuous but at the same pay grade.
First of all, you should contact occy health as they can help you. Your manager should have referred you to them at the start! Also if you are in a union contact them. When I had breast cancer Occy health were excellent! When I was in the NHS we could go above our manager and go to their manager . Good luck.
Thank you for your advice/information I phoned occupational health and got an appointment soon. Thanks again issy
I found the nurses at occupational health were very nice as well when I went to see them!
Hi , I too have COPD diagnosed at 60 after a really bad case of covid, they thought it was a clot in my lung and seemed to think covid had something to do with it as i havent smoked for over 30 years, i also worked for the NHS.I sent my sick notes in every 2 months seen HR went to all the meetings and they said they would find a more suitable job for me but I told them that this was just putting my illness onto another department, they asked me what I wanted and I told them that I wanted to be medically discharged as then I would be able to claim benefits and that's what they did, hope this helps you.
luckily the NHS pay you for being off sick for a whole year. If you now can’t manage your job or any work you could apply for early retirement under Ill health if you cannot get your pension at 55 ( I got my full pension from NHS at 55) Occupation health will advise you. how to apply for ILL health pension.
The NHS can only pay your sick leave 6 months full pay and 6 month half pay then have to let you go so please arrange with Occupation health ( which your would have seen during your sick leave, they will liaise with your consultant respiratory physician and make a report to support your early retirement ( under iLL health) you can also apply for PIP knowing your NHS pay is going to stop. Hope this helps. Cx
Thank you for the advice/ information
Hi I’m sorry to hear you’re struggling like this. I also worked for NHS in a busy heavy ward. I was off sick having having struggled on for several years but undiagnosed with RA. Suddenly it went into overdrive & I couldn’t do anything for myself. After 3 months off sick Occy health were involved who were lovely. Luckily I didn’t have a manager hounding me. It became obvious I wouldn’t be able to return anytime soon as I had a wheelchair & splints on both hands. Ill health retirement was mentioned as they said there were no reasonable adjustments they could make. I was 45 at the time. I felt so unwell it was a relief in a way but really sad too. I think occy health is your starting point.
Hi Iss, I am in the same position as you. Off sick for 4 months after a really bad chest infection and then a diagnosis of Bronchiectasis. Fortunately for me this was in 2021 and I had a “shield” letter from the Government. Been working from home since then doing admin. Now they want me back in the hospital, but I’m not well enough and also have a problem with my immune system. Luckily I am in a Union and they are supporting me. Occupational Health have been very good, stating that I almost certainly come under the disability part of the equality act which puts an additional duty of care on my NHS Trust, not just reasonable adjustments. You really should speak to them and get them on your side. My Respiratory Consultant is also very good and has written reports for me supporting my continuing to work from home. I am a little older than you, but still not ready to retire yet. They really cannot sack you without proving that they have done everything they can to properly look after and support you. Please, please, please get Occupational Health on your side.
Take good care of yourself, and try not to stress too much.
Hi thank you for your advice/ information I have made an appointment with occupational health later this month. It’s hard not to stress. Thanks again
Hi Iss, sorry you're having to deal with this. I work in education and have also been off sick for the last 11 months. I've been quite fortunate to get paid during this time but that has now stopped so I had 2 choices. Return to work or take medical dismissal. I'm on oxygen at the moment but otherwise I'm fine and I know they could accommodate me if needed. My main issue is new medication which causes very low immune system so working with children at the moment is a definite no-no. However I asked for a sabbatical which they have agreed with. I don't get paid but I am still employed with I view to return in 6 months. If I'm still not well enough then I will need to take a mutual dismissal. I was told that if I'd been 55 years old (I'm 48) I would be eligible for early retirement due to ill health. That could be worth looking into for you. It's so hard when employers put pressure on us, causing even more stress, when we should be concentrating on our health. Please take care and keep us updated 😊
Hi Mooster Moo I hope you are feeling better. Thank for for your advice and information. Iam not on oxygen thankfully. Unpaid leave is a possible option thank you to see how I respond to any treatment. Thanks again I hope you recover. Take care
Who told you that you can not receive ill health retirement at 48? Put simply they are wrong! You can get ill health retirement at any age. Speak to your union for advice. This could definitely be looked at via occupational health whilst you are not at work. Or even if you returned to work. I retired when I was only just 52yrs and receive my full pension due to my complex medical conditions.
I sent you private message
Someone may have already said this but look at the Equality Act. You can't be discriminated against. Employer has to make reasonable adjustments. If you can try to work to those all well and good. If not get signed off sick. Employer should be referring you to occupational health if off sick a lot. They will ask GP for report and medical retirement might be one option. You could ask to be referred to occupational health or as others have said check with HR but you should be protected by Equality Act . I understand that ultimately , if you don't play by their rules you could be sacked but I might be wrong. Good luck!
Thank you so much Ginty
Hi Issy. I had the same process to go through in 2022. It was so stressful. My manager and HR didn't support me. Wearing a mask made my copd worse. I finally retired on Tier 3 local Government pension scheme. It's only for 3 years then you have to be assessed again. so more stress to come. I now have heart problems but my copd did improve when I stopped wearing a mask for 8 hours a day. I have a little part-time job that I can do without killing myself. I will never be able to work in care again. I found applying for pip demeaning(I think this is deliberate) They more or less said if you can get up and dress you can work. You will be able to claim ESA for a year though If you retire on ill health. Good luck hope it works out for you.
Thank you Bettyboo14 for the advice. Iam glad you found a part - time job . But please look after yourself especially with your heart. I can’t even imagine me going back to work wearing a mask for 11.5 hours daily. I think I would faint through lack of oxygen. Take care of yourself and thank you
There is a procedure that your manager and the NHS will follow. First of all in consultation with occupational health, they will look at reasonable adjustments that can be made for you to continue in employment. That is being as fair as they can. If there are no adjustments that can be made to enable you to continue in employment, then you could apply for medical retirement. In that case it is out of your line manager's hands. You would be medically examined to assess the situation. There are 2 tiers of medical retirement from NHS. Tier 1 means that you are assessed as being unable to do any form of work before retirement age. That attracts the highest pension rate. Tier 2 is a lower standard meaning you would be assessed as capable of doing some form of work before pension age and that would attract a lower pension. If medical examination indicated that neither Tier 1 or 2 applied then sadly you would be dismissed. If you wish to be considered for medical retirement the onus is on you to apply. I hope that helps to clarify the situation. Your HR department could give you more detailed clarification.
Thank you so much that is very good information, very much appreciated for your advice. I have a union meeting soon I will discuss medical retirement with her. Thank you
Can you not talk to an Occupational Health Advisor and get them to sign you off from working or advise you on shorter hours in work. They might tell you to retire on medical grounds. Just get all the information ( letters from consultants/ doctors) etc And if you're in a Union, ask them too.Good Luck 🍀x
Thank you for your advice/ information I have now made an occupational health appointment for the end of the month. Hopefully they will help . Have a good day and thanks again
Hi Issy. Could you apply for early retierment with some help from the company you work for?
Hi IssyI have COPD and it can be very debilitating and never the same 2 days running plus certain weather conditions aggravate it.
I would advise you to speak to your doctor and maybe you could retire early on medical disability also apply for DLA now as you can claim whilst working or not working. I am recently retired but I was claiming ESA. Nursing is very strenuous and won't help. Can you not speak to someone at work for advice and help.
I hope you get some help sooner rather than later
Please keep in touch and let me know how you get on and always here for a chat. Take good care Issy.
Kindest Regards
Sharon
Thank you so much Sharon . It’s all so daunting at the moment i have only just recently been diagnosed with stage 3 copd and this all stemmed from a blood clot and collapsed lung. It’s so stressful work are unhelpful and really don’t see me ever going back. Thank you for your help. Will keep you updated.
I would have thought where you work would be more compassionate.Have you spoken to anybody about benefits you can claim. If you are renting or have a mortgage you could claim Housing Benefit and Council Tax benefit. I worked for the DWP and know that people who are entitled to help don't claim it. Get all the help you are entitled to Issy. COPD is no fun and you don't need financial stress on top of that! Take care of yourself and keep me posted.
Hi IssyI hope you can get answers soon from Occupational Health/DWP. Please keep me up to date and I will have everything crossed for a good outcome.
You don't need all this added stress so take care of yourself.
Kindest Regards
Sharon
Thank you will keep you updated for sure 👍
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