Ending support for extremely vulnerable people shielding from coronavirus while pausing the easing of lockdown restrictions in England has been described by a leading charity as “perverse”.
Age UK has said it no longer makes sense to end the advice for vulnerable people to stay at home, since rising infection rates led to additional lockdown restrictions in parts of northern England and the pausing of further easing in the rest of the country.
As of Saturday, more than 2 million people who are extremely clinically vulnerable to coronavirus are no longer being advised by governments in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland to stay at home, or shield. Many people have expressed concern that they feel forced to return to the workplace even though they do not think it is safe and the virus is still circulating in communities.
It's madness isn't it ? Personally, I feel far more vulnerable now than I did a few weeks ago. I've just been reading that less than half of people are social distancing. I'm lucky that I can stay indoors but it's clearly a nightmare for those expected to turn up for work on monday.
The Gov, who are made up of self-entitled, confidence tricksters, with the gift of the gab, do not have a clue what it is like to live in the real world. They do not have their finger on the pulse of ordinary folk at all, let alone those that are clinically vulnerable. I begin to feel as if they are not human even, not one shred of empathy between them it seems. Do they have any idea of the mental turmoil they are creating with their shortsighted decisions?
Although it is only being reported in the tabloids at the moment, there articles today that the Gov have been warned by SAGE of impending unrest and riots on a scale never seen before, and the army needs to be put on standby. By printing such sensationalist articles they are playing with fire, as it can encourage such unrest. If it happens, members of the Gov will not be seen for dust, being whisked away to self-entitled safety, they will not be on the streets dealing with rioters, in the same manner that they are never on the front line during a war.
I have worried for some time that there will be a huge increase in violence and rioting once financial support ends for those struggling already. The rules for us on shielding have been changed , we have a park 5minutes walk away where we can still meet up with family with distancing we haven’t been in it though after seeing the number of people in groups making their way there . My .daughter has arranged to hold a garden party to celebrate my husbands 80th birthday next weekend , close family members only. It now seems we will be breaking the law if it goes ahead. We are encouraged to go out shopping though .
Of course you are still encouraged to go out shopping, "Give us your money" "We need you to spend,spend,spend". Just shows what he is interested in and it is not you, rather your purse.
Exactly, saying parents who will be going back to work they cannot leave children with relatives just child minders who will have other people’s children to care for and they will have to pay is not in the interest of controlling the 🦠 virus
I'm so pleased you've put this post up Wheezyof, I run a group similar to the Breathe Easy Groups, and was thinking about returning in September. Think I'd better think again.
Same here Trishe,. My BE Classes are twice a week held in our Tesco's Community Room. I was told it could be March next Year, but not Sooner. I do my Exercises at home, though not the same with out the Class together. We have lost one member to Covid so far. Good Luck Hun, Stay well & safe. C. XXX
Only my idea of the reason for March, I really am not quoting BLF's reasons : Covid 19 is still there, the cold flu season starts late September/October, so us vulnerable people will be even more at risk of catching an illness that could be serious/fatal to them. So advise the vulnerable to keep away from crowds/public buildings as much as possible 'til the winter is over. BLF could have completely different reasons . I'm sticking to keeping as safe as I can anyway xx
Whoohoo good news, as support/exercise groups, we are exempt from this new " 6 only groups" as long as we are distancing, exercises on a chair, all the sanitising in place, doors open etc, we can start back. We are so pleased, I have ordered visors, for our group too, as we cannot wear masks.
It doesn't make sense. The virus is not only still in circulation but it seems worse now than a few weeks ago and with people flocking to beaches and so on, surely it's going to spread it even more. If policy is decided and based on the current situation, shouldn't shielding also be reviewed. I don't understand.
That is the point, they have been following the rules. It is the Gov that lifted the restrictions that allowed people to meet in the first place, they did as they were allowed. So the blame for it has to lay with the Gov, this whole affair has been totally mismanaged beginning with delay to the lockdown and has gone from bad to worse. There has been a rush to get he economy back to normal instead of allowing it to just tick over, at the expense of yet more lives.
When parliament was last sitting, where was the 1 M distancing, where were the masks? instead there were just a handful of the self-entitled present, says it all.
I'm staying put unless I really need to go out which I will have to do on Tuesday as I have a test at Northern General. I really would appreciate it as I think we all would to have clarification on sheilding, Have a goodnight everyone and stay safe 😊 Bernadette xx xx 🌈
No its not a hoax , we buried a member of family yesterday who died on the 9th of April from the virus following a diabetic flare. As sheilded people we could be ill quite quickly. It seems we all need to look after ouselves. I have a group of older widows who used to meet weekly but we don't think we can now till at best early next year. stay safe all.
I hope your group of widow friends are at least keeping in touch by phone. The social isolation can be very depressing. A phone call costs less than the tea & cake you would probably have at your weekly meets.
Very true as most of us have special phone packages , my one cost around two pounds a week to talk anytime of the day for 59 minutes even to abroad or mobiles. (good thing) . Much cheaper than ring&ride, plus lunch cost , tea & cake and group subs. Never mind the secretarial cost and room rent to be there for such a group. How ever our group does provide community sharing for those with mental health issues including learning community skills that cannot be replaced by meer phone calls. Theres two sides to every story and some benefits cannot be measured merely by cost. Thank you for reply.
I keep seeing this phrase Covid safe work environment. What does this constitute? I may have completely missed something here, but I fail to understand how any air conditioned workplace can be safe. Surely recirculating even part of the old air is just keeping the virus moving about? And please don't tell me that Tesco will be using the more expensive method of using only clean air! I would really appreciate your thoughts ….. xx
I don’t know what it means, I don’t see how a supermarket can be a coronavirus safe working environment. It’s true that customers will be wearing masks, as will the staff, but there’ll be lots of people touching things, handling money, using shopping baskets, queuing and standing paying for their groceries, etc. Having hidden myself away from the world for months I do not feel safe or happy going into that environment.
Thats a good one leo60, heres another one if this virus is so strong how can mere soap and water eradicate it. There is no way we can get rid that easy as the figures suggest circulation of people , goods , congregation even in open spaces seems to spread the virus, possibly because droplets are constantly being spread via varied ways. Maybe spread is not merely due to droplets? and maybe sprays or bacterial wipes do not keep things that clean. Distancing and masks are not openly being honoured as pictures on the news show. Its a known factor as you suggest that air conditioning only normally recycles the air via certain filtaration , most of which is not up to date in these current old systems.
Can’t find any antiviral wipes. I use Zoflora diluted 1:20 and paper towel. Although not yet tested on COVID 19 it will kill other Coronavirus at this dilution and keeps its potency for 1 month.
It smells nice too. I don’t use on food packets though. Try and quarantine where possible
Clinell make antiviral wipes. Being quite apprehensive about bacteria and viruses I fortunately had a whole lot of these long before the coronavirus situation developed, as they seem to sell out quickly now, but completecareshop and amazon do sell them when they’re in stock. I hadn’t tried the Zoflora on paper towels idea, that sounds pretty good, I thought it was just an antibacterial cleaner. Great tip thanks 👍
Yes thats true, sorry for delay in reply. I use antibacterials for my hands as I am allergic to some soaps and washing powders ect. I just saw an advert saying bleach kills viruses not sure about that one, it kills most germs but is a virus a germ !!!!! This is very scientific so needs a different type of advice for us to consider our position. Just keep smiling and hope we are safe seems to be the option offered.
It is important that Age UK has drawn attention to this issue. Those of us in older age ( I am 79 with lupus and my husband , 84 has had a heart attack) . . .will try to carry on very carefully indeed . In our case , just as we have been doing.
That is ,staying at home except for walks in non frequented quiet ways . . .not having anyone in our flat , seeing family members out of doors socially distanced .
I do buy food at nearby Waitrose when it is very quiet . . .no queues. Masks, hand washing , sanitizer , etc.
Here in wales my friends who are shielding are doing so until the middle of August.
I have been worried for those who have been home for 4 months and suddenly made to go back to work as its a big leap for them after having been sheltered all that time.
I can tell you from experience that Pneumonia is a walk in the park compared with Covid-19, having had both. I await what you think after you have had it and hopefully survive and live to tell the tail.
This is the one time I have been grateful I was pensioned off, as unfit to work, in 2008, so do not have to choose between health and earnings.
I give it two weeks and shielders will be locked down again. I believe we are back at the start of March again with the numbers, it’s about to explode again
Of course he wants to prove you wrong! He wouldn't be able to compete! 2greys for president I say!! I can't believe it either! Just had a run in with some kinda provocative a******e on the Positive...…… whatever during lockdown site, left me a bit shaky tbh. Bkin, I think you post there too? Any thoughts? xx
Thank you 2g for this post. It is indeed perverse. The way I see it shielding was a way to stop the NHS from becoming overwhelmed by the vulnerable and not designed for our safety. Weird now there is an uplift of numbers in many areas but the hospitals are not overrun, the vulnerable can now p*** off back to work and help save the economy if not themselves.
If the numbers were low, then I could understand a pause, but following all these months of isolation there has been no consideration to the anxiety caused to many and it should be a much more gradually process until people feel comfortable. This is not the right time and as stated in the Guardian, perverse.
Well said cofdrop. The NHS has always been a device for politicians to utilise their demagogy, paying lip service to its founding principles but effectively milking the NHS for all that it is worth. The Establishment neither cares nor is concerned about the NHS, what with its ranks in Government of hedge fund speculators and mouthpieces for profit, especially the City of London. You can shield as much as you want but you can't hide from the grasping perversity of both the Government and HM Loyal Opposition. So long as their salaries are guaranteed by the taxpayer, what price principles at Westminster? Forget defending the NHS. Get back to work, plebs, so that our MPs can be free to plunder the Public Purse.
Oh, and thanks, 2Gs for this thread. It really has got me going!
I have been out on 3-4 occasions after shielding 4mths cos I’m high risk.
I am now informed that I can’t have a family member in my home or in my garden!
But apparently I’m ok to go shopping, go to the pub, go over on public transport amid the general public who could be carriers/ have Covid19, touching door handles, holding onto rails, brushing past me-ect
Rule after rule, no implementation, no fines, just making sure to pass the buck so Boris can blame us, who he’s supposed to be
It's scary we,re free to go out but the instances of Covide are rising ,I feel sorry for those of you who have been told you can go back to work what a double edged sword .It seems more about the economy than health .Please stay safe everyone Love and Hugs Judi xxxx
I am on the most vulnerable list. One issue I have raised regarding the removal of the shielding list that it occurs on the cusp of the flu season, which will mean a higher increase in COVID19 cases. Without a vaccine, it makes us even more vulnerable. I disagree with the government on ending shileding.
Currently, with the restrictions ending, as a nation, we are beginning to see an increase and I suspect it will increase more when the nation enters flu season. I feel by removing shielding there will be a spike in cases with deaths from COVID19 increasing.
What is even more preverse is the plan to tell over-50s to shield if cases continue to rise.
Finally, I am not a fan of the Guardian and I believe the Guardian spins their own reality that does not always match what is really occurring. In this situaiton, I do not agree millions on the shielding list are being forced back to work. I work in a health-care managerial role and I am NOT being forced back to work. Instead, I am being advised to continue to work from home. The letter from the government regarding shielding ending on 1 August is very clear that if you can work from home then you should continue. I believe, the Guardian should look closely at the facts and not make broad generalised conclusions.
In turn I believe that those that can work from home are in the minority, though. Hard to imagine so many jobs being done from home, carers, shop workers, teachers, NHS workers, the list goes on, any thing that is done manually. Not everyone is a white collar worker.
They do not want you to be working from home anyway. They need you to be out, spending in the city centers and to make up the numbers to create the hustle and bustle in city centers. To give the impression that things are back to normal and attract more people out, to spend, as well.
It is called 'Social Engineering', not all of us are blinkered to these tactics. Supermarkets and advertising agencies have been using these sort of psychological tricks for years.
When I picked up my meds at the chemist this week, they booked me in for the flu jab at the beginning of October, so flu vaccines will be available soon.
I am on the shielding list, and work in the NHS, where September is being mentioned to me as a return to face to face working. I belong to a site for people with Primary Immune Deficiency, and many people on the list are being expected back to work tomorrow, particularly in shops. It is understandably causing great upset and consternation.
Anyone who thinks Covid 19 is not real is a disturbed conspiracy theorist imho.
Government instructions so far have been confused balderdash, overlooked by many, and it is not surprising that we have the highest death rates in Europe.
Currently the govnt is peddling profits before people with its spend, spend mantra, and I for one have no faith in the decision making processes around our health.
I think they will have to rethink this as there are too many people being infected again. It has been mentioned by an MP in my borough that numbers in our area have started to rise and to be careful. I am going to listen to her for the moment and only go out when necessary. Boris is only interested in getting the economy going again. It worries me that lots of vulnerable people are at risk again.
For people who don’t care for the Guardian, it would be difficult and churlish I would have thought to deny Andrew Rawnsley is an excellent journalist, who imo is spot on with his observations.
Good morning 2greys, I totally agree . The news is conflicting , does not make sense when the risks are still almost the same, and numbers are rising in local communities. Its being recommended that those sheilding should continue . But there still remains the issue of risk which means you need to make your own choice, if we the sheilded stay home we will at least contribute to stopping spread and protect ourselves from the dangers to our own health.
As a shielder, I'm sick of the confused terminology. The media simultaneously refers to 'advice' or 'guidelines' then 'instructions ' or uses phrases like 'advised to', then 'told to'. Which is it? My government letters and texts have been equally confused. However, until told otherwise, I will continue to interpreted my personal shielding responsibilities as guidance and NOT a legal requirement. So my version of shielding incorporates some dog walking (sparsely populated rural area). For those of us who are not employed, imo it's a judgement call. I started shielding before being advised/told to and I am not about to stop shielding just because we reached a magic date or because Boris said I could go out and multiply. Because the way I see it, those of us who are most at risk need to be more vigilant than ever in the coming weeks. I feel for those at work and with less choice.
I totally agree with you,I've just been told I can go about normally, I am on oxygen 16 hrs a day and I'm getting anxiety attacks just with thinking about it.
A government policy can only ever be a broad brush. You must do what feels right for you. Plenty of people are still shielding - or 'variations of'. Good luck
Quite agree, like you I started shielding before I got my letter, and have just been going out with the dog to local field. I am starting to go further afield now because if things get worse I will be stuck in very restricted regime again. However, I still have not gone inside anywhere - shops etc. I have lost my support from local council to fetch my medication but the pharmacy have taken over for now. Shopping done on line. Where I live is thankfully a very low infection area - but am keeping an eye on it. Just using my own judgment at present
Rediculous, what is, IS -
Personal responsibility in life, in the current situations to help ourselves, the people around us and the country as a whole.
The blame game doesn't achieve anything.
The anti gov and anti Boris comments on this thread seems very close to hate crime to me.
Not at all good for health, for support, for the forum.
Well said Bkin. I agree with your observations and am sick and tired of anti Boris comments. A bit like spectators can always play better than the players on the field. But they can't.
Good for you, well done. I have been shielding since the 10th March and only been out through the door once, for a scan, I have also been told that I must continue with shielding, perhaps it will be for longer than another year yet. You might get a vaccine, which will not work with me if I need more Radiotherapy, which will also destroy any immunity I may already have acquired, even the flu jab will probably not work.
Living alone can make it easier. I live with my partner who is a senior carer at a nursing home where there are presently two tested cases of Covid-19.
Living in a smallish flat, it is extremely hard to shield, with one kitchen and one bathroom. She works 5 sometimes 6 x 12 hour shifts, so it is me that is doing the cleaning, daily, which is not an easy task with very severe Emphysema and NSCLC, I could not manage without rubber gloves. I do not and never have complained about it, I just get on with it, in fact this is the first time I have even said anything about how I have had to live, other than sleeping on the sofa, months ago.
By the way I never actually accused you of being self-entitled, I just asked if you were, there is a huge difference.
We are lucky enough to live in the Algarve and can see that it’s not the fault of most governments but people (especially the 20 - 40 yr olds) not following the rules. Over here people have been excellent about social distancing & wearing masks - have been able to go out for dinner since May. It was only one illegal rave which caused a spike in numbers on the west coast. Could go shopping easily but find masks claustrophobic & face visors good providing temperature not too hot.
Think its more a risk now than before I live in Cornwall its packed everyone here now on holiday as if its just normal life again
So it's now time to look after us i don't care what the government says its safe because its NOT i am still staying indoors i know a lot healthy people who are still doing the same as so many people around you can't stay apart even if you tried you have people arriving from God knows where and then they are gone leaving the virus here as hospital number have gone up a lot higher than in lockdown
So forget the government as they done care just do whats best for you
Catching up: how come we are at so much danger that we have to shield one day, then magically the next everything is better and we can go out with no advice as to what you should do? Totally bonkers.
And this is imo a huge injustice to older people - keeping people at home because they may catch the virus is like suggesting curfews for women in order to prevent rape.
Social distancing is the main thing that will help everyone - individuals, hospitals and hospital and care home workers etc. Plus a test and trace system which is fit for purpose.
As with everything else, we all need to be our best advocates and risk assess each situation as it occurs. We have been going out since mid-April - we go for drives in the car, walks in the countryside, a very few favoured shops at quiet periods when there is no-one else in them, some outdoor seating at cafes.
Like most people we know we have no respect for the government but plenty of self respect which makes us take careful decisions so that we are ok. I have not felt unsafe but am aware of the many who do not respect social distancing so dont expect the virus to die out any time soon.
Overall the economy trumps the health of vulnerable people. But what else would you expect with a government such as ours?
There is advice what to do, still safe distance, still avoid travel and public transport if you can. all laid out here gov.uk/coronavirus It is definitely NOT back to how it was before the virus.
+ my gov letter states I still need to observe the 2 metre safe distancing and all other recommendations, its common sense really.
You need to respect the guidelines, regardless of what you think about the government because if you don't then the virus will continue to spread regardless of your thoughts about the government.
So you got a government letter? More than I did. If I had to rely on the government I dont think I would stand a chance. You speak like it's straightforward yet they have contradicted themselves, done multiple U-turns, no wonder people are confused.
The Independent Sage group of scientists said the government’s failure to explain the new regional ban on different households meeting indoors with any clarity would damage public engagement with the guidance, which is soon to be law.
“This is no way to handle a pandemic,” said Professor Gabriel Scally, president of epidemiology and public health at the Royal Society of Medicine. “It seemed designed to undermine public confidence.”
One way to generate funds, by fining that 50% of the population for breaking rules they cannot understand. What is it they say? "Ignorance is no excuse".
It is straight forward if people take the time to read the content provided. I think people are only confused because they are listening to different media and rules concerning other parts of the country, which doesn't apply to those not in lock down at present. If people just keep checking and reading the official guidelines they wouldn't be so confused.
It seems to me a lot of the hearsay is going on in this post based on people anti gov comments, some of which are opinion and not facts.
I didn't get a government letter either to end shielding, I just went by press and gov.uk - and my own reasoning. I think every one was shocked at the suddenness of it!
yes, had first letter, though I was added later than first people, but I still got texts reminding me and phone call from council to check if I needed anything. Actually, I was mistaken , I think I did have the letter to end it and then forgot, it was a while ago now. I also had a phone call from the council to say they would not be arranging collection of my medication any more
Some pharmacies will still deliver, check with them - stay well and safe. Also vulnerable persons delivery slots will still be available, although delivery costs are no longer subsidised, still worth it when you think of picker, packer, delivery costs etc.
It's not black and white though is it - as in economy v health of vulnerable people. Because if the economy goes belly up, so do the taxes which pay for health and social care - not to mention the effects of deprivation on health and mortality. It's a tricky balance the world over and I don't envy any government with that choice.
Of course it is perverse, the plans to end shielding at the end of July were announced, not formulated but announced, on the 22nd of June when the infection rate was relatively low. 6 weeks ago!
Now the infection rate has doubled, it has gathered pace once more with 4,200 new cases a day! Spikes happening up north. Talk of closing pubs and restaurants again to allow schools to open. Yet it is still supposed to be safe for the "clinically extremely vulnerable" now. So why were the "clinically extremely vulnerable" not released 2 months ago when the infection rate was the same as it is now?
Somebody is definitely taking the Mick, spelt with a p.
As one of the vulnerable who has been living under the threat since February when I was told to isolate and then shield. I've virtually lived in one room while my wife and sons had the rest of the house. Obviously there have been times when shielding has been impossible. We are led to believe we are safe to unshielded at a time when the Prime minister is returning to lockdown restrictions, not sensible at all in fact it is stupid contradictions which causes unrest.
Vulnerable people continue to be at high risk of contracting Covid 19. It seems ludicrous to say that they are now safe to go out and about... and go back to work. I hope they all ignore this latest advice.
I'm not sure about the high risk of contracting it. I think it is more about the likelihood of serious illness or death if we do contract it. But the main problem imo is the spikes - there is a no such thing as an even risk across the country and locally that risk can vary week to week. However the most depressing thing for me is the total lack of respiratory care. I haven't even been able to have a telephone consultation. I wonder how many people with serious conditions and yet to be diagnosed conditions will die as a secondary effect of covid? That said, I dread having to go to hospital. There has been an outbreak within my usual hospital and at least one local person died after contracting it there. A neighbour also caught it in hospital though now 'ok'.
Not just perverse but a very cynical move by the government, putting at risk the very people who’d suffer severe complications from the virus. I’m particularly concerned for those being forced back to work in jobs where they’re very exposed eg shop workers, carers etc. Yes we need to support the economy, but surely not by risking the lives of our most vulnerable.
I worked until I was 69 years & 8 months. 4 years of that was after being diagnosed with a FEV1 of 37% I even worked through Radiotherapy with Lung Cancer. What more do they want and expect from me? They have picked a fight with the wrong guy. Shame on them, especially Matt Hancock who has openly laughed during serious interviews.
Hancock keeps repeating that we must do what the NHS has advised us to do. However, senior medical advisors to the government have made it clear that they only provide advise and recommendations. It is however up to the government whether or not to take on board the advice they have been given. So far, the government have made decisions which have gone against scientific and medical advice.
Well due to have been assessed for a double lung transplant Apr 8th cancelled obviously and still awaiting review, as I know of this its going to kill many outside of covid along with inside, as very few are now in receipt of treatments, testing, and chemo..if they are in cancer state, also a dear friend has awaited diagnosis for and during lockdown of a condition which has more or less suffocated her, we now know finally its stage 4 anaplastic thyroid cancer admitted finally and a trach done, she is mostly now heading into final phase, not one Doctor attempted a call out and 7 paramedics attended her during the past 5 months..Whilst Hospitals remain almost empty surgeries are closed even in my village with only calls and diagnoistics being driven over phone or skype..its beyond anything I have ever reasoned with or thought I would live to see, incidentally I have been in a 1 mile radius for nearly 12 months!!! I go out to walk my pooches and home I walk in natural countryside where we see nobody, its miserable on steriods..but its keeping me going, I have no cleaner and struggling to cope as its a big ask with the rest of it I can't allow a soul through the door..Testing and such has been parked as I would not venture near a Hospital (I don't trust it ) or them ..running the shit show here..its truly outrageous and dangerous, if I didn't know better I would say we are being culled, the weak and elderly are a complete afterthought and its so scary for millions of us with nothing much to fight with ..this Goverment and these men are killers in my view ..good luck stay safe and avoid the public is all I can offer until we see what the tsumani of a second wave hits nobody here is safe, they should be shot..the lot of them for the worlds they stole off those barely able to hold onto a world and fighting as we all have ...its truly appalling.
1st hit was tail end of the disease ..and we came out on top of the board highest death rate in Europe and 3rd in world..its diabolical..and if I could get out I would be gone!
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LEST WE RELAPSE - PLEASE STAY AT HOME
