Good and Bad Manners.

[Cateran]

Manners are the basic building blocks of civil society. Good manners is paying moral attention and treating others with moral seriousness. Bad manners is treating the elderly, the disadvantaged, the inarticulate, with impatience. I think that most contributors to HH go along with my definitions, but what about resentment? Where does that concept come in to our understanding of good and bad manners? Is there a place in the panoply of manners for resentment? I would welcome your opinions, lung buddies.

[Katinka46]

Not sure what you mean. Resentment by whom of whom? I think resentment is an emotion we should try and grow out of. A bit like grumbling. If something is not right then we should do what we can to put it right. If that is not possible we have to tolerate it and move on. Some things can be changed, some things cannot. Perhaps you can give us an example?

Isn't there a famous poem/prayer about this?

I shall search for it.

Kate x

[Katinka46 in reply to Katinka46]

This is it:

Serenity prayer by Reinhold Neibuhr.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change, courage to change things that I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

[Hacienda in reply to Katinka46]

Spot on Hun , My Son (Police) sent this Prayer to me when he was in The Bad times of when His Colleagues were being attacked at Westminster. XXX C.

[Cateran in reply to Hacienda]

I do not wish to diminish the bravery which your policeman son exhibited Hacienda, on all our behalf. I admire his courage. Please see my reply to Katinka.

[Hacienda in reply to Cateran]

Wow, As I was Replying to Kate's " Prayer" I was not warranting a response from yourself.

[Cateran in reply to Katinka46]

Thank you for this response to my panoply of manners, Katinka. We need resentment because without these reactive attitudes we run the risk of diminishing our sense of right and wrong. We end up thinking that the offence does not matter. An example that springs to mind is ageism, when I resent the overlooking of elderly patients in care homes, causing a failure to test when an older patient is transferred to a nursing home, thus bringing the corona virus into the home and inadvertently infecting others. I swear at the television and feel in a bad mood afterwards. Perhaps resentment acts like a safety valve. Serenity runs that risk that acceptance and wisdom runs counter to what Neibuhr prays for. it is counter-intuitive. Jewish survivors of the Holocaust may not agree with him or his prayer.

[Hidden in reply to Cateran]

As one high maintenance coffin dodger, Terry, I thank you for your resentment. 😊x

[Cateran in reply to Hidden]

Oh you are a wag, Don. coffin dodger indeed !

Terry.

[Katinka46 in reply to Cateran]

It is interesting that when I thought about your post I could see a clear distinction between resentment and anger. Anger is the right response. Because anger is the goad to getting something done. Yes, we can change society, we can change things, we can campaign, write to the relevant bodies, we can vote for those who promise to effect the changes. This is something that we can change. Niebuhr’s prayer is about changing what we can. And thankfully we live in a democracy, I am not sure that resentment would get anywhere.

K x

[Ergendl in reply to Katinka46]

Resentment is a luxury I cannot afford. It pickles my good feelings and turns them into ashes. Anger makes me work until the issue is resolved. Resentment makes me feel sorry for myself. One looks outward, one looks inward.

[Katinka46 in reply to Ergendl]

Beautifully put, thank you.

K xx

[Ergendl in reply to Katinka46]

Thanks. Acquired, in part, from elsewhere.

[Damon1864 Volunteer]

I would say it comes under the banner of bad manners, it can make people really rude and nasty, have a good day and take care of yourself 😊 Bernadette xx xx 🌈

[skischool]

What if we resent you asking the question in the first place if we are not clever enough to answer it Terry?

A moraly indignant Ski's and an overly polite non grumbling Scruff's x

[Hacienda in reply to skischool]

So Happy to see your Here Carino, Things will get Better Now. Besos XXX C.

[Cateran in reply to skischool]

Very witty skis, and my question turned back on me, See my reply to katinka above.

[Hidden]

Resentment is linked with envy I would say, can you have resentment without envy? You can have envy without resentment.

[Katinka46 in reply to Hidden]

Yup. I was envious of Iris’s exquisite rose but I was not resentful.

K xx

[Hacienda in reply to Katinka46]

So Was I Kate, So Was I. without Resentfulness, Happy for Iris. XXX C.

[Cateran in reply to Hidden]

You can give me a metaphorical clip round the lug Don, but see my reply to Katinka. And mothers always know best. Sit up and stop slouching...

[Troilus]

We can all feel resentful at times. Good manners mean nobody need know!

[Kristicats]

Resentment is a feeling or emotion (often to do with pride) which we have many. Manners are a different topic entirely? Dependant on culture, upbringing etc.

Attitudes however can be perceived as manners along with the 5 magic words.

[Hidden in reply to Kristicats]

'Manners' is what your mum said when she clipped you round the ear for no apparent reason. 😉xx

[Cateran in reply to Kristicats]

What are the five magic words Chris?

[Kristicats in reply to Cateran]

Please, thank you,sorry, pardon ( me),excuse me. 👍 England mostly?

[SORRELHIPPO]

For me resentment ends up as something corrosive, I do object to the way older people are treated, but for me it is an anger reaction, I am unsure how to quantify resentment, just that it seems unhelpful. Good manners, seems to me, to be the conducting of oneself, in such a way as to not offend others.

[Cateran in reply to SORRELHIPPO]

I can't disagree with your feeling Sorrel Hippo that resentment is corrosive and i was not attempting to quantify resentment but rather to qualify it as something more than anger alone. I go along with you in not wanting to cause offence to others as an instance of good manners and I am grateful to you for pointing this out. My analogy above about serenity and the justified anger or resentment of Holocaust survivors generated by the Nazi inhumanity, still stands as an instance of a necessary resentment if that quality of feeling leads to justice for the Jewish people and many others. Resentment is in fact a sufficient reaction as well, and bears out my feeling that what appears on the surface to be a negative passion can be quite the opposite.

My thanks to you for helping me think this argument about the place of resentment through to its logical conclusion.

Terry

[Hellodolly]

You have posed an interesting dilemma here. All the major world religions and philosophies extoll us to be forgiving, kind, accepting etc. And yet the animal brain is fuelled by competition and envy, creating a paradoxical situation for us as humans.

Are we right to feel resentful when someone else does something we disapprove of? It depends who you ask.

I would say it’s a natural human reaction when we see others going against our own moral code. But Ghandi/ the Pope might say you need to let go of that resentment and forgive.

[Cateran in reply to Hellodolly]

Thank you kindly hellodolly for you well-mannered comment about dilemmas and paradox in my post. It is a simple thing to lose ones way in the moral maze and to wander helplessly searching for the entrance. Our moral code is not always a guarantee that we will exit the maze, hence the nature of paradox you rightly allude to. No amount of moral righteousness from the Pope and Gandhi will serve the purpose of the dilemma about resentment as a justified and necessary reaction to evil and genocide.

Stay safe,

Terry.

[Hellodolly in reply to Cateran]

Totally agree. I was brought up on the bible with endless pressure to forgive, which I found puzzling as a child. I wanted to fight against evil rather than forgive it.

The lockdown has been interesting in terms of the moral maze. It seems some are following ‘rules’, others aren’t, and

people are divided. Human beings are so funny in their hypocrisy too - did you see that woman in the news who drove to a beach only to condemn others for doing the same?

There’s nowt so queer as folk.

The answer to your question is probably that resentment as a feeling is normal, but if the feeling tips into angry reactive aggression, then maybe it’s morphed into bad manners, depending on the situation of course. It has been fun to start the morning with some debate - thank you for raising the topic and facilitating discussion .

A day of zoom meetings now beckons 😢.

[Katinka46 in reply to Hellodolly]

My reply was to your earlier response so it is now out of place. I am in absolutely agreement about forgiveness. People are pressurised into forgiving abuse in a way that re-creates the abuse. I think it is one of the most difficult areas and Jesus's insistence on it is yet another item in the imaginary folder in my head called "Things I wish Jesus hadn't said."

K x

[Katinka46 in reply to Hellodolly]

But they would both say do everything you can to work towards justice: think of Ghandi's huge achievement. And Mandela, Tutu, they did not sit back and do nothing.

K x