Hello again it’s been a while since I did a post well just had to call ambulance for partner who has severe copd and asthma he was having a bad attack of both his oxygen very low 76 pulse 122 anyway paramedics took him to hospital and after 4 hours they did blood gasses said 11 was normal for some one with copd but his cane back as 8.5 which wasn’t good then he was admitted to a ward then specialist came and told him straight you are very severe and because of your health issues we will not resuscitate well that has scarred him terrible he dare not sleep as it is because he stops breathing then wakes up gasping for air obviously I’m mortified I wasn’t with him at time his brother was with him he is so scared he isn’t going to get the help that he needs I’m still in shock and I know he has got worse and he carnt have oxygen at home because he’s a retainer he has nebuliser and usual rescue pack I just don’t know what to do thankyou for any support x
Advice needed dnr: Hello again it’s... - Lung Conditions C...
Advice needed dnr
Hi this happened to my brother. I think he agreed with dnr when he was unwell. He also had delirium. Out family objected to this we got the order taken off him. You can discuss this with your partners consultant or contact pals officer who will help you with this.
Thankyou very much for your quick reply we are still in shock we know he has got far worse but still had hope and obviously when he is having an exacerbation he wants them to help him has he plans on living many years yet
I was thinking they are legally required to do all they can without a dnr😳
Can either you or his brother (whoever might be considered NOK talk to the Consultant about this decision? I have a Lasting Power of Attorney (medical) who can act on my behalf, if I am unconscious/demented. It is better if the person themselves discusses this with the Consultant, but it sounds as if your partner could not get in enough air, to argue the point with the Consultant.
I am his next of kin and plan on sorting this tomorrow and he signed at drs for me to take over his meds and reports thankyou for you quick response
This is a terrible situation you are faced with and I hope all goes well for you tomorrow. Do you gave any family member to go with you for moral support if nothing else?
Yes I got plenty of family but not said anything to them yet but will first thing I know we need all the support we can
That's good. My thoughts and prayers are with you all xx
Hello shortytree ,
Oh my. How traumatic for you and your partner. 😓 I think the important question here is did he sign a DNR? I don't believe they can simply leave someone to die if they have not agreed to forgo any intervention should the time come. I don't know the facts surrounding the doctor's words, but it seems extremely insensitive and just plain cold to say that to a very ill person. I'm sorry this is happening to you.
Cas xx 🦋
Exactly that’s our response aswell I wasn’t there but husband and brother both in shock earlier husband asked a dr direct how bad was he he and how long had he got and he knew he was realy bad but the dr was very polite and explained he wasn’t a lung specialist but later on once he was on a lung respretary ward he saw a specialist who said we need to have a talk and explained how servers his lungs were and that they would not dnr and explained what that meant and he was too ill to be resuscitated but he hadn’t sighted anything
And yes this all seems very cold husband is very frightened now and I was upset I wasn’t with him I had gone home to collect some pyjamas and wash stuff for him
I had to sign a DNR just over 4 years ago prior to surgery after breaking a hip during a fall. I was told I was very high risk and was suffering from pneumonia. The surgeon said he would not put me on a ventilator should I stop breathing during the op. Pleased to say all went well. I don’t know if the form I signed is still on my hospital notes. I hope your husband is soon well with all the care he will be getting now and back home soon.
Perhaps you could check Joyce about the DNR you signed , you may not want them to use it in the future, unless it's your wish not to be resuscitated. xx
It’s not something I’ve really thought about. Rather putting my trust in the professionals looking after me . Will check next time I have a hospital appointment. Hope you are feeling ok Cas 😘 xx
So do I I’m reading as much as I can ready for tomorrow so at least I’m armed with information to argue my husbands corner
They cannot force him to sign a DNR. You are right, find out all the facts , I would also have them explain what resuscitation entails. It is important for you as family to know the facts on both sides of the argument. Please do update us if you are up to it. Don't be bullied into anything and don't be afraid to ask uncomfortable questions. xx 🤞
This is awful, you fight this all the way because this is so unethical. Please keep up updated when you feel you can we will be thinking and praying for you and your family. Stay strong and remember no matter how Ill your dear husband is he has rights, you take care of yourself 😊 Bernadette xx
Hi
it's not uncommon for such a comment to be made when you are very severe
The decision is not taken lightly. Resuscitation can further damage your lungs leading to less quality of life. As he is not guided by emotions he is best placed to decide what is best for the patient
This is what I understand, particularly for elderly patients, younger people afflicted with bone cancer etc. The act of resuscitation is quite strenuous and can break ribs or bruise them very badly, damage lungs, leaving a weak patient in a lot of pain and very significant discomfort, further adding to their burden, for a lifetime that maybe deemed to be quite short.
It’s for these reasons we as a family agreed for DNR on my father’s notes. We spoke to medical staff with experience of caring for patients who survived resuscitation. In the end, there was no question of resuscitation, he died in his sleep, aged 86. I could argue that the hospital gave him more morphine than needed, but he wasn’t in a happy or comfortable state, so didn’t take any action.
My sister who had breast cancer, plus secondary bone cancer, had DNR on her notes in case of heart failure, which is a possibility if a patient is well down the line on chemotherapy. However, the hospice wanted a general DNR decision. We had long conversations with them and found that it would lead to withholding antibiotics in the case of a chest infection. This alarmed my sister, so the hospice tailored her notes to be more precise on when they would not resuscitate her. In the end, she gradually slipped away ‘naturally’, again with plenty of morphine, though in her case there were very clear signs of her systems, such as kidneys, brain, etc, failing to work any longer.
My mum, aged 100, has had a DNR note on her records for about three years, the matter raised during an annual review, but not raised again till the next annual review, when the nurse was satisfied that we’d had as much time for discussion as we needed. No emergency happened in the meantime, but we were asked to be prepared to answer that question. Again our decision was made on the grounds of the effects of what can sometimes be quite violent resuscitation on a very elderly body.
Sorry to be graphic but it may just help with soul searching decisions. Penny xx
Thinking of you and your husband. 💐
I have heard of this quite often , doctors trying to get people to sign a DNR. Forgive me but it's almost like they want to decrease their work load and free up hospital beds. I do agree that in some circumstances it is kinder not to resuscitate, but it should be the explicit wish of the patient. That is why it is important for us to talk to our next of kin or whomever has power of attorney for our care.
Hello shortytree
Sorry to hear about all you are both going through. When my husband was diagnosed terminal cancer he was given a dnr, but due to his condition he sadly accepted it was best in his situation. I however found it harder to accept.
Then last Christmas I had pneumonia which progressed to type 2 respiratory failure, which had gone undiagnosed until I became unconscious. I was confused and afraid in the resus room, a young doctor casually said “by the way we aren’t going to resuscitate you, it wouldn’t be of value” .
When I was able to process it a bit better it left me feeling anxious and worthless as if I am not a viable person anymore, just in the way.
I am so sad you are both dealing with this. My thoughts are with you.
As others have said, ask them to clarify why this decision.
Take care x
My Heart is so sad for you Shorty. All The comments are Viable. I was only saying Yesterday to Hubby, it's so frightening, These Doctors need re training, most don't have the Bed side manner any more, We are just a Number to be ticked off for the Bed to become free, Where has the Duty of Care gone, Every day we read of Bad things happening in our Hospitals. My thoughts are with you Both Hun. xxx
If your hubby has the cognitive ability to give consent them only he can make that decision?they are far to quick with people with respiratory conditions to make them want to sign a DNR.mechanical ventilation if required will harm the lungs in a frail and oxygen starved patient and unless your hubby has reached that stage and all other treatments have failed such as clearing the probable infection that is causing his distress i would not sign on his behalf until i had been utterly convinced,by a consultant that his chances of recovery were practically impossible and that he was in great distress and or pain.
All of our thoughts are with you at this distressing time.
Ski's and Scruff's x
Do you mean he retains CO2 if so I do and was given a niv machine to wear mainly overnight but sometimes during the day.
God's blessing to your husband and you. My daughter was very ill and in hospital. Our faith says that we come here and leave at God's will, not ours. I have never recovered completely over a doctor asking me "How long do you want her to live?" It is devastating to realize that a doctor with such blasé toward life is in the same room with your sick loved one. I assure you, he was not long in her room. The Lord Himself and our love informs us when the time comes to let go. Prayers and God's blessings. J
I think this is awful and as far as I know illegal in the UK? When my parents were very old and very ill they weren't told this. We had meetings with doctors who recommended DNR but we agreed with them otherwise it wouldn't have been on their records.
I hope you can get it sorted. x
This is so sad. How mean of the Dr to put this to your Husband without you there. I would be very upset with whoever made the decision to push this on him when he was at his most vulnerable. They need to make sure he has no infections causing his sudden flare up and maybe ask if a CPAP machine could help with his CO2 retention.
I hope he gets the care he needs.
I have a dnr in place. I have AF, CHF and COPD. I decided to make the dnr as I was in severe respiratory distress 3 times when I was last in hospital. I am not afraid of death but I don't want to die of suffocation. It was the most awful thing I have ever experienced! Knock me out please!
I would hit the roof they did that to someone in my family
Hi so glad i read your post this has happened to us, my hubby was in hospital in December on and off for 3 weeks,he has severe copd, every time he was admitted he had a chest infection and high carbon dioxide so he had to go on bpap machine and was struggling with his breathing,when he was discharged i read in his notes and he had signed a DNR i was really upset and he said they asked him to sign it because if he stopped breathing and they tried to resuscitate him he would have lost oxygen to his brain , i am going to discuss this at his next clinic appointment, he now has bpap machine at home he has to use it every night ,they say it prevents more hospital stays ,this time of year is very worrying as he always ends up in hospital 999 admissions . we were told you can use oxygen with bpap ? i have read on this groups post that many people with severe copd still survive for many years after diagnosis its that thought that keeps me going on days when i feel down its a rollercoaster but we have to stay strong for them, Thinking of you x
Seems a cold hearted way of saying things
DNR notices should always be discussed with family. It could also be argued that if your husband was short of oxygen did he have the mental capacity to agree to anything.
I feel death is the last stigma in society it’s certainly not discussed enough.
It’s something my family have certainly discussed so we all know what each other wants.
I have a DNR notice and powers of attorney for both health and finances, my will is also done.
J
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