If anyone still doubts that the NHS is under threat, just read this

[O2Trees]

GP referrals will have to be vetted in attempt to cut them by 30%. Very shocking, but exactly what health campaigners have been warning about for last couple of years.

dailymail.co.uk/health/arti...

[Hidden]

Bad is ... Thats what tier 1 & 2 is some quango trying to kill us.

I took offence when i got letter going about tier 1 & 2

Said i need to see proper doctor not a atos like health care professional to my GP told him to stick that.

[RibvanRey]

Our GP practice has done this for about 2 yrs. Most things and even new products get trailed in low population areas like here in rural Lincs.

Rib

[Hidden]

Daily Mail O2Trees?

[Ergendl in reply to Hidden]

It was in the Mirror too.

[O2Trees in reply to Hidden]

And your point is, LL?

[Hidden in reply to O2Trees]

Just pointing out that the Daily Mail is hardly an unbiased source as has been pointed out on here before. That's all.

I note it has also been covered by the BBC though which gives it credence.

[O2Trees in reply to Hidden]

As I think you would know LL Im very up to date on developments in the NHS so I knew it was accurate. I had seen it several other places but this is one of the clearest accounts I'd seen, posted on one of our Labour Facebook pages. Best to read it first rather than jump to conclusions about it's inaccuracy.

[ldwilliams]

As if diagnosing and discovering certain conditions and illnesses isnt Already hard enough, lets kill off a few more patients

[Kitten-whiskers]

That is very worrying for people with certain conditions. The medical profession have never helped me with my illnesses. I think if the doctors tried to be helpful and cared a little then people would improve and they wouldn't ( so busy, all they seem to do these days is send you for a blood test, where the ranges are set so high that anything registers and even if your over there “extended” ranges they turn round and say it doesn't matter.

[sassy59]

Not a DM fan but we'll see what happens. Thanks O2. Xxxxxx

[mrsmummy in reply to sassy59]

It was also reported by the BBC sassy.

[O2Trees in reply to mrsmummy]

That's where I first heard it MrsM.

[O2Trees in reply to sassy59]

It's been everywhere Sassy, and I loathe the DM but it's a very clear account.

[sassy59 in reply to O2Trees]

Thanks O2 it sounds terrible. Another kick in the teeth for the poorly patients. Xxxx

[Hidden]

Yes 02 Trees. Not only in the Daily Mail. It was on one of the main BBC bulletins yesterday and I read about it somewhere ( sorry brain not too sharp this morning) weeks ago.

Another layer of administration to be paid for

More delay in getting a patient seen

Undermining the already beleaguered GPs by taking away their reason to be there which is to diagnose, refer and provide ongoing care according to advise from a consultant.

I can see many GPs refusing or delaying doing this because they will be afraid that their medicaldecision that the patient needs specialist diagnosis and care will be challenged by these 'experts' making them look stupid.

So I don't have to say it do I ! We with lung conditions have enough problems getting to the right consultant because many GPs do not know anything about it. Now we have to fight another layer of faceless people. Who are they?

How do we know that they have any knowledge at all about the conditions which they are ruling on? With lung conditions this is especially serious because you cannot diagnose without examining the patient.

Total complete utter nonsense.

Whoever dreamt this up has probably never had a day's illness in their lives!

[winter2013]

This is all ... well words fail me as am sure we all feel the same.... unbelievably sad, uncaring, and instead of moving forward eg like technology, is taking us closer to the past where there wasn't even an NHS!

Clearly these decisions are made by people who either haven't experienced poor health or who can easily afford private health care. The first duty of any government is to take every measure to look after the health of the nation!

I have to confess I have sought private consultations myself but I don't feel comfortable doing so and it has been from personal necessity. I had to put my own personal health before principles. But... excellent health care for all is probably the thing that would propel me into waving a banner!!

[knitter]

How about the recent reports in The Independent .

' UN attacks British Government for failing to protect disabled people's rights'

' government cuts have created ' human catastrophe ' for disabled. UN committee says'

[sibkev]

on the lighter side gp s have always been vetted by the woman that answers the phone and thinks she is the docter ie hello doc bobs what is wrong with you me if i knew that i would not be phoning you would be working for me. she says a im sure we all get that

[Hidden in reply to sibkev]

She isn't doing it off her own bat sibkev. Some surgeries have told the receptionists to ask that question. She is just the poor sap on the front line who gets hassle when she follows her instructions.

I used to work for the DWP contact centre and you should have seen some of the questions I had to ask! Some people seemed to think I had made them up myself and argued blue murder with me. They even thought I could change the law for them too. I used to have to explain that I could only explain the law, not change it.

[Inamoment]

There are at least two sides to this. Remember that gp's are generalists and can't be expected to be experts at everything. I don't know who is on the panels but it could make a lot of sense. My old gp had trained in a hospital cardiac department which was goood, I have no idea about the new one. I rarely see a gp and am looked after very nicely by hospital consultants.

[O2Trees in reply to Inamoment]

So that's lucky for you Inamoment. But possibly not so good for those still to be referred . . .

[katieoxo60]

Hi O2trees, knew it was going on but they have kept the national roll out date hush hush. It is just going to cause more cofusion and passing the book. Might help in some cases where there is doubt, but what about the patients right to reasonable care in illness management. Cancer does not always show severe symptoms, and internal organs can be well damaged before the patient has severe well defined symptoms. Lungs, Heart, liver and Kidneys being just some possibilities. I dread to think what the future holds maybe we all need private medical insurance like abroad from here on in.

[O2Trees in reply to katieoxo60]

Referrals to consultants or for scans often discover other important conditions besides the original reason for the referral as Im sure you know Knitter.

That's exactly what they want, for us all to have private insurance like in the U.S. Not so good for those who can't afford it though.

[katieoxo60 in reply to O2Trees]

Very true.

[Hidden]

i read about this weeks ago, all the vetting will be done by a panal of experience experts on any referrals. they can put the referral forward or can send it back to the doctors with recommandations for treatment.

i would expect they will be paid a very good salary for there work and hope they dont feel obligated to balance the books for there bosses.

[Inamoment]

That sounds very sensible ub41

[Tugun]

Last night, NHS England said peer reviews were a simple way for GPs to support each other and to spare patients from making unnecessary trips to hospital.

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/health/arti...

Support each other? Spare patients? Yeh, sure! ( I love a good twist to a cost cutting exercise).

Good Luck. I hope this doesn't come into being!

[Hidden]

It's all spin and just boils down to the same thing - money. All you have to do is remember that and anything politicians do makes sense.

[O2Trees]

Yes, whatever way they spin it, it's all about saving money. And don't be diverted by whether it's in the Daily Mail or another paper/media source - that's not the point - the point is to oppose it. These and other cuts have been on the cards and have been being developed for several years now. Health campaigners like me and many others have been leafletting, demonstrating, writing to the papers etc etc since the Health and Social Care Act was voted in in 2012. We are sleepwalking into a situation where there will hardly be an NHS left and it's only recently it's been becoming clear in the media what is happening.

The most recent government topdown reorganisation of the NHS, called the STPs (Sustainability and Transformation Partnerships), are dividing up the country - England, this is not happening in Wales, Ireland or Scotland - into 44 "footprints" (oh, the jargon) thus permanently fragmenting the NHS, and aiming to save £22 billion by 2020. £22 billion, imagine that! It defies belief. And until now all has been done under the radar with no accountability whatsoever.

So hopefully everyone is writing to their MPs, going on marches, pickets, protests, or if you can't, then getting friends and family to do so. Keep Our NHS Public has groups all around the country, and Stop the STPs is a great website for keeping up with new developments. Start - or keep - protesting. When the NHS has been destroyed it will be too late.

[katieoxo60]

Just to let you know 02trees, we have a small group where I live fighting along with some support against the latest proposals within the NHS , but it seems we are losing this battle and the first to suffer will be we the disabled & elderly. Keep up the protests ect O2 x

[O2Trees in reply to katieoxo60]

That's so great to hear Katie. How did you come together?

[katieoxo60 in reply to O2Trees]

Hi 02trees, we got together in 2014 with backing from Age UK to support people over 50, however our committee is now involved in varied things, including health, social care, social isolation & loneliness, plus housing, benefits, environmental health, transport and age freindly cities. We work with places like the local council, healthwatch, Age UK, and researchers in the local university. Some of the larger companies and MPs support our groups aims. We are called Coventry Older Voices and can be found on line.This year health & social care has become one of our priorities.

[O2Trees in reply to katieoxo60]

Brilliant

[Ktomoph_]

Thank you so much for all the info you have given related to the privatisation malarkey!

As someone whose health has seriously deteriorated because of LACK OF REFERRAL, I will join any serious campaigns to help stop the NHS making decisions to save money rather than lives!

I joined the Afib forum shortly after diagnosis because I was just so lost and confused by what I felt to be the GPs failure to actually hear me and refer me. So many people advised me to change GP after reading my posts.

I also joined the Lung forum because I could not breath and, despite telling my GP and being taken to hospital by emergency services, still nothing was done.

In absolute desperation, I contacted the Cardiologist secretary! She understood immediately and I was in hospital shortly after that. The EP Cardiologist who saw me on admission, sent me for an Echo. EF 13%. Severe oedema. And Heart Failure!

I am still trying to recover from the shock and reality of what this means to me and my family. But it has made me realise that we cannot just sit back and trust what we believe to be normal care within the NH service. My trust in my local GP and practice is absolutely null and void now. It has also affected all dealings I have to have in every aspect of the NHS that I have to come into contact with.

I am relieved and pleased to be able to say though, that I have met, trust, and received excellent treatment from the arrhythmia and cardiology team at the hospital. I think that I can say with absolute truth that this includes the cardiologist secretary who is more aware than her job description indicates!

I am now, mostly on the BHF forum, and after finding your post am readily forwarding the post with article to others that have suffered because of lack of referral.

I am so pleased that I came across your post 'by accident'. You are indeed an informed person. On with the 'fight for life rather than money'.

I hope you are getting the treatment you need and that things are not too uncomfortable for you healthwise.

[O2Trees in reply to Ktomoph_]

Yes - thank you. I get good treatment and am lucky with my GP. Consultants' secretaries are always good to make friends with and like you say usually have a good understanding of the situation, and they can make things happen, like speeding up appointments and other useful stuff. Im so sorry you've had these diagnoses and hope things can improve for you with the right care.

A fight in our area (East Kent) is to reverse the downgrading of our hospital. Currently due to lack of consultants to supervise the junior doctors, it has lost its urgent care provision for stroke, heart attacks and pneumonia. We now have to travel along dodgy roads one hour to get to other hospitals, or to A&E which we lost a good while ago. The fight continues!

[Ktomoph_ in reply to O2Trees]

I have just been told that things are being done to upgrade a hospital a fair few miles from where I am, which probably Indicates they will close our local hospital, It is a lot smaller, and I have been happily surprised to be honest, that it has lasted this long with all the closures over the years.

I have not been 'actively' involved in any campaign before, having just voted for or against things I believe in. But over the years, and more so recently I have come to realise that sometimes I do need to say something.

It is, along with the diagnosis, a bit of a scary place to be for me, but I will get there. And I know its a learning curve whereby I need to find the right words to put forward the issues that need to be raised, and to keep it relevant to the issues.

I think that the scary side is that, of course, there will always be someone who will attack your beliefs and any points you raise, but I must learn not to take it personally! Difficult!

Thankyou for being inspirational.

Hope you enjoyed yourself at the Tate yesterday. I have not been for a little while, but look forward to doing so as my physical strength returns.